Spirituality vs. Religion

[garybeck]

I believe there is truth in all the religions



peace out

gb
The Harmony Insitute
"exploring the common threads in all the religions"
http://theharmonyinstitute.org/book

[Az]

1. Of course but with a caveat

It is only the religions that survive the test of time that are able to gather truths along the way. Heaven's Gate was convincing enough to sway some followers but it did not survive long enough to gather any wisdom.

But even in the religions that have survived the test of time the trouble is that while they may contain a great deal of wisdom they also come with a lot of baggage. Treating others as you would have them treat you is a great idea. But killing a person because you believe they are a witch is not.

[garybeck]

2. right, that's why I say

most of the truth in the religions is found by going back as far to the origins of the religion. what are the direct quotes of the "founder" of the religion. not a book that someone wrote about them. as you say, the religions take on baggage, but I think they just get more over time. I like to focus on what Jesus actually said. Like I love the sermon on the mount. "Blessed are the peacemakers." i believe all the religions have been messed up over time... we know the bible was corrupted when the Romans hijacked the religion 300 years after Jesus lived.

[Az]

3. I disagree

Its evolution. The words we have attributed to the original speakers are often lost to time. Countless reinterpretations and edits cause change to occurr over time. Before the teachings are set down on paper endless iterations of verbal telling bring change to them.

As these alterations enter into the stream of thought behind the beliefs the ones that resonate with people are taken to be true and the ones that don't are lost to time. In this way wisdom beyond what the original thoughts were can accumulate.

Unfortunately in a dogmatic belief the culutural values of the time can guide the teachings. Thus when time goes on some of the established clauses do not phase out and their relevance to later societies no longer fit.

[More Than A Feeling]

4. I think the most important thing about religion

is realizing that there is a higher dimension to life that might be termed the "spiritual" or "religious" dimension. We will find out the specifics soon enough, and in the meantime, there is more than enough to do without arguing over whether the ultimate power is God/JesusChrist/HolySpirit or Vishnu, or Gaia, or whomever.

If the person in question genuinely feels that the religious/spiritual answers they have found are big enough to be made the center of their lives, then it is really pointless to try to argue them out of it. If someone does happen to change their mind, and convert to a new faith, or no faith, it will only come through their own experiences, not something someone said to them.

(Now some might say that the most important thing about religion is the code of ethics, but as many have pointed out, one can have the exact same ethics without religion at all.)

[garybeck]

5. i agree, that is the purpose of religion

the word religion comes from the Greek "relinkio" meaning "to relink."

the very purpose of religion is to relink us to the "higher plane" or the true reality, or whatever you want to call it.

As far as when we get to find out about it, I personally believe we already know. We we just temporarily forgot. That is why religion is to RE-link, as opposed to just linking.

[cosmik debris]

7. I've always been interested in etymology

and your etymology of "religion" sent me to google. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=etymology+of+religion&btnG=Google+Search

I did not find any confirmation of your etymology. Would you be so kind as to enlighten me on the source of your information.

Thank you,

[Az]

8. Some possibilities

From Wikipedia:
Etymology

Various religious symbolsThe origins of the word "religion" have been debated for centuries. Some explanations for the origin of the word are:

re-reading--from Latin re (again) + legio (read), referring to the repetition of scripture.
treating carefully--from Latin relegere (Cicero's interpretation)
re-connection to the divine--from Latin re (again) + ligare (to connect, as in English ligament). This interpretation is favoured by modern scholars such as Tom Harpur, but probably originated with St. Augustine.
to bind or return to bondage--an alternate interpretation of the "reconnection" etymology, possibly also originating with Augustine but emphasising a sense of servitude to God. However, the bondage interpretation, while popular with critics of religion, is often considered imprecise and possibly offensive in many modern religious contexts.
What is clear about the word "religion" is that the religious connotations (in the sense of gods, morality, afterlife, etc.) were not a part of the term's Latin precursors.

My personal take is that religion is that which we form when we come together to share our personal understandings of the universe and our interconnectivity. It does not require a supernatural context although some may (and usually do) conclude that there is such a criteria.

[cosmik debris]

9. My rather arcane interest

is in concrete links between Greek and Latin. My relative ignorance of Greek means that I must rely on more educated sources. I was optimistic that garybeck could provide such a link. . . or re-link.

[garybeck]

15. I think this one on your google search says it

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew1/D1-EtymologyOfReligion.html

Webster's Collegiate Dictionary traces the word back to an old Latin word religio meaning "taboo, restraint." A deeper study discovers the word comes from the two words re and ligare. Re is a prefix meaning "return," and ligare means "to bind;" in other words, "return to bondage." Do you still want some of that "old-time religion"?


However, I think the author makes a false interpretation of the word 'ligare.' He equates binding with bondage, implying unwilling imprisonment. I don't think that is the correct interpretation. There are many different definitions of the word "bind." In one, bind basically means the same thing as link.

that definition refers to the Roman ligare. Chances are the Greek is older. Both refer to the same "link".

I don't think the author is correct in saying religion ever meant "return to bondage." I believe it is much closer to say "re-link."

[cosmik debris]

17. Thank you for your input

but I have seen nothing to verify your statement: "the word religion comes from the Greek "relinkio"

While your religious views are interesting, my interest here is in the origin of words.

Thanks again.

[trotsky]

6. That can also be looked at as a drawback, though.

If I know there is a life after this, where everything is hunky-dory, I might be less inclined to fight for peace and justice here. Or even worse, a person might have no problems killing someone else because they are positive the victim is going to a "better place." (Or they might take joy in thinking the victim is going the other direction, too.)

[More Than A Feeling]

12. You are right.

We must always be conscious of human nature, and its capacity to turn things that seem good to evil purposes.

[onager]

10. Religion is vastly over-rated when it comes to "truth."

In my strictly dumbass atheistic opinion: when it comes to those basic "truths" for living together, all religion does is steal very common, basic rules and try to claim it invented them.

Then it weighs them down with a lot of extra unnecessary baggage, like the concept of Hell.

The Judeo-Xian spin on this always cracks me up. Moses came down from the mountain with stone tablets that told people..."don't kill each other and don't steal."

Listen to some of the Xians...even the liberal ones here on DU...and you'd think that NOT killing/stealing had never occurred to anybody before the time of the Old Testament.

Never mind the fact that much larger and more complex societies had already existed for thousands of years before the Old Testament was written, including some of the greatest empires the world had ever seen.

BTW, a modern Fundie who loves old-time justice would feel right at home in ancient, pagan Babylon. Murderers were burned alive. Adulterers were sewn together in bags and thrown in the river.

As for the "spiritual" jibber-jabber, I see that as only one more component of the thing that keeps getting us humans in (and out of) trouble--our big brains with all that redundant processing power. IOW, spirituality is just one more component of human consciousness.

(edit for sp.)

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. But remember, Moses' stone tablets told us

not to boil a kid goat in its mother's milk. You have to admit that's not an obvious law. The "do not kill" stuff was just repeated verbatim by Moses to the Israelites.

I think this shows that they didn't have much of a problem with the obvious rules. It was the weird ones about eating unleavened bread, and not mixing blood sacrifices and yeast, that they needed in writing, because no-one could quite believe them.

[garybeck]

16. "the law is written on your heart"

your interpretation is correct in my view, even the bible says that the law is written on our hearts, and no one needs to read the words to know what is right.

however where I differ is in throwing out the baby with the bath water. I think that some of the great teachers like Jesus and Buddha had a lot of great things to say that can help us as individuals and also as a planet.

all that hell stuff was thrown in after Jesus lived anyway....

[Az]

13. Consider this as a claim of religion

Impassioned Clay by Ralph N. Helverson

Deep in ourselves resides the religious impulse.
Out of the passions of our clay it rises.
We have religion when we stop deluding ourselves that we are self-sufficient, self-sustaining, or self-derived.
We have religion when we hold some hope beyond the present, some self-respect beyond our failures.
We have religion when our hearts are capable of leaping up at beauty,
when our nerves are edged by some dream in the heart.
We have religion when we have an abiding gratitude for all that we have received.
We have religion when we look upon people with all their failings and still find in them good; when we look beyond people to the grandeur in nature and to the purpose in our own heart.
We have religion when we have done all that we can,
and then in confidence entrust ourselves to the life that is larger than ourselves.

[More Than A Feeling]

14. yeah