Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Buddhism.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU
 
white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 01:44 AM
Original message
Buddhism.
Hey, everyone I used to be a christian, but over time I felt it was too dogmatic and illogical for me personally. I have started studying Buddhism and I was just wondering if anyone had any good resources to share or could tell me more about it? I know the basics the 4 Noble Truths and 8-Fold Path. Specifically I'm interested in Mahayana tradition since I feel more drawn to that than the Theravada tradition.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hi white_wolf. I wish you the best on your endeavors
http://www.shambhala.org/programs/index.php?cat=3

I think the best resource is to see it in practice. Shambhala Centers offer a tremendous amount of resources from which to learn. At least in the Denver/Boulder area the centers feel very welcoming without that sense of proselytizing that comes from many Christian churches. You come and go as you like, as you are. I'm no spokesman for them. Just a suggestion for you to check out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Figures the closest one to me is Memphis.
There aren't many Buddhist centers in the South, shocking I know. There are a few in my town, but they are mostly Theravada, Tibetan, with a few Zen. I'm wondering if they would be willing to teach me even if I don't end up following their specific path. I know most christian churches are very big on you learning and following their sect, but I hope Buddhists are different.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Yes, Buddhism is very different than that.
You can learn a lot about it without going to a temple or devoting your life to a group of one kind or another. It just helps to have others to talk with.

Another source, if you're not familiar with it already is: http://www.buddhanet.net/

They've got a really good online library there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It's a very good site.
I just read all of "Good Question, Good Answer" last night. It was very informative and easy to understand. One of the things I really am liking about Buddhism is how scientific a lot of it seems to be. The author even mentioned that the Buddha's description of how the world came to be was very similar to the modern theory of evolution,though I can't seem to find the Sutra he referenced. If anyone knows it that would be great.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. My story is similar to yours.
I've been studying Buddhism for a little over ten years now. I too, wanted to start off in Mahayana, but I've learned from a few Mahayana teachers that Theravada is also good to start off with because it does a great job in covering the basics of Buddhism. Both are very good.

One of my favorite online teachers is Ajahn Brahm. He is Theravada. I really like him a lot because he translates Buddhist teachings into every day life in a simple and understandable way. He also tells a few jokes too :) His videos are about an hour long. Here's a link to a few of my favorites:

"Control and Freedom:"
http://www.youtube.com/user/BuddhistSocietyWA#p/u/143/rKxKGFw6B68

Another one is "The Meaning of Life - Peace of Mind"
http://www.youtube.com/user/BuddhistSocietyWA#p/u/83/SNiS2OI-bSk

His YouTube channel has numberous talks that are excellent.

Buddhism can get very complicated quickly and over the years I've boiled it down one of the most important teachings, which is to be in the present moment/mindfulness.

"The past is gone, the future is not yet here, and if we do not go back to ourselves in the present moment, we cannot be in touch with life."
— Thich Nhat Hanh (another excellent teacher)

Hope this helps a little!




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. The heart and soul of Buddhism isn't dogma, it's practice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YankeyMCC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. Raised Catholic currently practicing Zen Buddhism
And yes what Warpy said - Practice

Also, I know of one 'online zendo' not sure how well it works, I've heard some say that it has worked well for them, others not so well.

I will add to the Practice advice to say you definitely should find a teacher to check in with as you practice.


A Zen discussion board: http://zenforuminternational.org

On line zendo: www.treeleaf.org
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vehl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. I like Zen
Edited on Wed Jun-15-11 01:37 PM by Vehl
Amongst the different Buddhist Schools. Probably cos I find it identical to Advaita Hinduism, which I practice.
Some of Bodhidharma's teachings are my all time favorites.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm not sure if Zen is the branch I want to study or not.
I'm looking into it. I've also heard Pure Land mentioned a lot as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-11 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm an atheist and was moved by Buddhism
Edited on Thu Jun-16-11 03:31 PM by GliderGuider
As someone else said, it's about practice, not dogma. I went in through Zen, completely content-free, and only later encountered the more traditional Buddhist teachings. If you're more comfortable having a framework around your beliefs, as most people with traditionally religious backgrounds seem to be, then Mahayana may be the path for you (for now). Break free one step at a time, so to speak. For me frameworks like the 8-Fold Path initially felt like dogma, so I didn't resonate with that as much - though I now walk that path all the time.

It may be helpful to think of whatever path you take up as a doorway to pass through rather than a room to enter. I've gone through a succession of doorways on my journey, and true to my Zen beginnings, I have found the best fit to be free-form non-dual philosophies like Taoism and Advaita. Someone of a different mindset might also end up exploring Sufi or shamanism more deeply.

The key requirement for me was that my spiritual experiences be deeply personal - I'm a mystic at heart. Once I understood that aspect of myself, the journey became a quest of trying to find as as many ways as possible to experience the numinous, then lingering with those that spoke to me the strongest.

Congratulations, good luck, take your time and have a blast!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-11 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. Did you know Imperial Japan was motivated by Buddhism?
Edited on Thu Jun-16-11 11:25 PM by Taverner
http://www.screamsfromchildhood.com/christopher_hitchens.html

The human species is an animal species without very much variation in it, and it is idle and futile to imagine that a voyage to Tibet, say, will discover an entirely different harmony with nature or eternity. The Dalai Lama, for example, is entirely and easily recognizable to a secularist. In exactly the same way as a medieval princeling, he makes the claim not just that Tibet should be independent of Chinese hegemony -- a perfectly good demand, if I may render it into English -- but that he himself is a hereditary king appointed by heaven itself. How convenient! Dissenting sects within his faith are persecuted; his one-man rule in an Indian enclave is absolute; he makes absurd pronouncements about sex and diet and, when on his trips to Hollywood fund-raisers, anoints major donors like Steven Segal and Richard Gere as holy. . . I will indeed admit that the current "Dalai" or supreme lama is a man of some charm and presence, as I will admit that the present queen of England is a person of more integrity than most of her predecessors, but this does not invalidate the critique of hereditary monarchy, and the first visitors to Tibet were downright appalled at the feudal domination, and hideous punishments, that kept the population in permanent serfdom to a parasitic monastic elite.

How might one easily prove that "Eastern" faith was identical with the unverifiable assumptions of "Western" religion? Here is a decided statement by "Gudo," a very celebrated Japanese Buddhist of the first part of the twentieth century:

As a propagator of Buddhism I teach that "all sentient beings have the Buddha nature" and that "within the Dharma there is equality with neither superior nor inferior." Furthermore, I teach that "all sentient beings are my children." Having taken these golden words as the basis of my faith, I discovered that they are in complete agreement with the principles of socialism. It was thus that I became a believer in socialism."

There you have it again: a baseless assumption that some external "force" has a mind of its own, and the faint but menacing suggestion that anyone who disagrees is in some fashion opposed to the holy or paternal will. I excerpt this passage from Brian Victoria's exemplary book Zen at War, which describes the way the majority of Japanese Buddhists decided that Gudo was right in general but wrong in particular. People were indeed to be considered children, as they are by all faiths, but it was actually fascism and not socialism that the Buddha and the dharma required of them.

Mr. Victoria is a Buddhist and adept and claims -- I leave this to him -- to be a priest as well. He certainly takes his faith seriously, and knows a great deal about Japan and the Japanese. His study of the question shows that Japanese Buddhism became a loyal servant -- even an advocate -- of imperialism and mass murder, and that it did so, not so much because it was Japanese, but because it was Buddhist. In 1938, leading members of the Nichiren sect founded a group devoted to "Imperial-Way Buddhism." It declared as follows:

Imperial-Way Buddhism utilizes the exquisite truth of the Lotus Sutra to reveal the majestic essence of the national polity. Exalting the true spirit of Mahayana Buddhism is a teaching which reverently supports the emperor's work. This is what the great founder of our sect, Saint Nichiren, meant when he referred to the divine unity of sovereign and Buddha. . . .For this reason the principal image of adoration in Imperial-Way Buddhism is not Buddha Shakyamuni who appeared in India, but his majesty the emperor, whose lineage extends over thousands of generations.

Effusions like this are -- however wicked they may be -- almost beyond criticism. They consist, like most professions of faith, in merely assuming what has to be proved. Thus, a bold assertion is then followed with the words "for this reason," as if all the logical work had been done by making that assertion. (All of the statements of the Dalai Lama, who happens not to advocate imperialist slaughter but who did loudly welcome the Indian government's nuclear tests, are also of this non-sequitur type.) Scientists have an expression for hypotheses that are utterly useless even for learning from mistakes. They refer to them as being "not even wrong." Most so-called spiritual discourse is of this type.

You will notice, further, that in the view of this school of Buddhism there are other schools of Buddhism, every bit as "contemplative," that are in error. This is just what an anthropologist of religion would expect to find of something that was, having been manufactured, doomed to be schismatic. But on what basis could a devotee of Buddha Shakyamuni argue that his Japanese co-thinkers were in error themselves? Certainly not by using reasoning or evidence, which are quite alien to those who talk of the "exquisite truth of the Lotus Sutra."

Things went from bad to worse once Japanese generals had mobilized their Zen-obedient zombies into complete obedience. The mainland of China became a killing field, and all the major sects of Japanese Buddhism united to issue the following proclamation:

Revering the imperial policy of preserving the Orient, the subjects of imperial Japan bear the humanitarian destiny of one billion people of color. . . . We believe it is time to effect a major change in the course of human history, which has been centered on Caucasians.

This echoes the line taken by the Shinto -- another quasi-religion enjoying state support -- that Japanese soldiers really fell for the cause of Asian independence. Every year, there is a famous controversy about whether Japan's civil and spiritual leaders should visit the Yasukuni shrine, which officially ennobles Hirohito's army. Every year, millions of Chinese and Koreans and Burmese protest that Japan was not the enemy of imperialism in the Orient but a newer and more vicious form of it, however to not that Japanese Buddhists of the time regarded their country's membership of the Nazi/Fascist Axis as a manifestation of liberation theology. Or, as the united Buddhist leadership phrased it at the time:

In order to establish eternal peace in East Asia, arousing the great benevolence and compassion of Buddhism, we are sometimes accepting and sometimes forceful. We now have no choice but to exercise the benevolent forcefulness of "killing one in order that many may live" (issatsu tasho). This is something which Mahayana Buddhism approves of only with the greatest seriousness.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. So what is your point?
Edited on Fri Jun-17-11 06:41 AM by GliderGuider
It sounds a lot like, "There's no real social difference between Buddhism and Christianity." If so, it's always necessary to distinguish between the personal and the social contexts for any belief system. Governments have a nasty habit of twisting spiritual systems into a support for authoritarianism. That's why I like Zen, Taoism and Advaita. Their inherent anarchism makes them monumentally unsuitable for state religions, while maximizing their personal benefit.

If your point is simply, "Don't become a Buddhist," then thanks for playing.

If I have missed your actual point, then you might consider being a little more direct.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. When it comes with competing alternatives for reality, they're all the same
Whether its Buddhism, Christianity, Maoism, or Bagism its all the same

Competing for space against evidence based reality
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. First off let me say this:
I agree with a lot of your posts Tavener and I respect you, but here we are going to have to disagree. First of all during its 2500 year history there hasn't been a single war fought to spread Buddhism unlike the other major religions of the world. Unlike other religious texts Buddhism has no mentions of actual Buddhists engaging in warfare. WWII certainly was not an effort to spread Buddhism by Japan.

I think Buddhism is the most logical and reality based belief system there is. No leap of faith is required the 4 Noble Truths are based upon logic and are testable. Whereas other religions require you to abide my certain articles of faith, Buddhism encourages you to question everything even the teachings of Buddha. Here is one of my favorite quotes that illustrate this point:


So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher."
When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" — then you should abandon them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.
"Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.'
When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Agree to disagree?
Buddhism may be the most logical and reality based belief system out there. I read a book a while back called "Buddhism without belief" and a lot of that made sense.

However, having lived in a Buddhist country, I saw what the common practice of Buddhism is like. Thailand had Buddhism as its state religion (and that might be the flaw in the process) - and the Monks ran a theocratic system that allowed them a cut of tax revenues, gave them a free pass on child abuse, and the right to suppress by law any other non-approved Buddhist movements (Santi Asoke comes to mind.)

I also think of Tibet when it was a theocracy. The monks lived high on the hog, and were the government. Penalties for crimes were not unlike Sharia - very eye for an eye.

Now you and I would agree this all falls under abuse of religion. But it is a part of Buddhism, no matter how much you and I don't like it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. There is one significant difference, but it's at the personal level.
Buddhism and other non-dual philosophies offer some of the best techniques available to help you get your ego out of the game.

Once you have had a taste of that particular freedom, the value of such teachings is never again in question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Call me crazy, but I kind of like my ego
:evilgrin:

For me it's a matter of playing whack-a-mole between my ego, superego and Id
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Yeah, I could tell.
:evilgrin: back at ya
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Nothing wrong with a healthy ego, a spring in your step and a devil-may-care attitude
A lot is bad, but a little bit never hurt nobody no how
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. It's a good servant, but a lousy master.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC