Would Judaism even exist today without Christianity?

[El Supremo]

I say no.

Christianity is so strongly based on Judaism that I say that that it has preserved the old teachings through all the attempts to wipe these people out. Christians outnumber Jews by so much that this question must be posed.

St. Paul was responsible for this more than any other.

Sorry, but that is my conclusion after watching the PBS show "Jews and Christians."

[serryjw]

1. ?? Judaism is 5000 years old

What does it preservation have to do with Christianity?

[Rowdyboy]

2. Haven't seen that particular show , but the answer, IMHO, is certainly!

Judaism is the original base of the tree upon which Christianity and Islam are but branches. Of course it would have survived.

[unblock]

3. ah, so THAT's what the inquisition and the holocaust were all about

they were trying to preserve judaism by killing jews!
it's all so clear now!

[El Supremo]

5. No. In spite of the Inquisition and Holocaust...

Judiasm survived. Because of Jesus' heritage.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. What?!

Judaism survived. Because of Jesus' heritage. How did you come to this conclusion?!

[sportndandy]

4. Damn Liberal Media.

Jews are the chosen people. We don't need christians to be the instrument of God's will.

[LiberalFighter]

6. And Christianity needed Judaism to be considered legitimate

It wouldn't do any good to start a brand new religion that had no roots to the beginning. Plus it was easier to take something that was already there and add to it then to create something from scratch.

[El Supremo]

7. Yes, but to the Jews not the Romans.

Perhaps there were some Romans who respected Judaism, but not many I suspect.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

8. Actually, Jews survived because of involuntary and voluntary segregation

The word "ghetto" originally desribed the area of a city where Jews were required to live.

Traditionally, they had strict rules against apostasy and intermarriage, whether with Christians, Muslims, or pagans. Anyone who left the religion or married a non-Jew was considered dead to the community, including their own family.

They resisted Greek domination--that's what the story of the Maccabees, which is behind the celebration of Chanukah, is all about. They maintained their identity so strongly in the Roman Empire that they were, I believe, the only conquered people excused from the obligation to burn incense before statues of the emperor.

They survived as a separate people in the Arab world, India and Ethiopia, and even for several centuries in China.

Their devotion to study of the Hebrew Scriptures and adherence to Mosaic behavioral laws kept them together over the centuries.

It's rather insulting to imply that such a rich tradition would have died out without help from Christianity. The Jews were already all over the Roman Empire by the time Paul set out on his missionary journeys.

[bullimiami]

9. well if it wasnt for religious insanity

there would probably be another 20-50 million jews in the world by this time in history.

why not make the same argument for the muslims.

safe to say if not for judaism neither christians nor muslims would exist.

[billbuckhead]

10. Ironically enough, Judaism was saved by Islam

from being exterminated by Christians. Check out the crusades.

[Az]

12. It is interesting to note

That every other religious society that Christianity encountered was destroyed. Judaism is the only religion that survived the onslaught of Christianity during the dark ages.

Judaism is also the only religion mentioned as being around in the book of revelations. The trick here is that the Christians believe they need to Jews to be here in the end for their end of the world scenario to come around. Thus they have held themself back from utterly descimating the Jewish community. Oppress, quell, squash, and abuse yes. But obliterate no.

[catbert836]

14. I think it's more the Roman mindset

The conquering, empire, "we don't care what other people think" mindset that most Europeans seem to have. Although I am of European/Caucasian/White descent, I'm terribly ashamed of what my "race" has done.
No matter what religion they had, it would've been the same thing. Roman paganism? Same things would've happened. Judaism? Same things. Islam? Same things. The religion dosn't really matter, its the people who practice it.

[Az]

15. Religions come in different forms

Think of them as a life form. Each one evolves and develops in its own way. Its survival is based on its ability to propogate itself. The more efficient ones spread further. The inefficient ones die out. When two meet each other how they interact is based on each ones own survival instincts. Some are more aggressive than others.

Roman Paganism had an entirely different methodology that Christianity. They didn't destroy religions they encountered. They folded them into the mix. When Christianity hit a culture it obliterated as much of the opposing belief systems as it could. All except Judaism.

[supernova]

13. Yes, of course it would

Judaism is the foundation upon which xtainity rests.

A better question to ask is "Would Christianity exist without Judaism?" I think not.

[Az]

16. Do Christians need Jews for them to continue being Christians

Just because something is theorised to have been philosophically based on another belief does not mean that its progenitor is required to be around after it has been fully developed. Christians do not need Jews to be around. At least not to form the core of their belief. It is an irony of history that the fate of the Jews was written into the prophesized ends times of the Christian bible. Thus they had a reason not to eradicate them. Thus they survive.

[supernova]

17. Some replies

Some replies:

Just because something is theorised to have been philosophically based on another belief does not mean that its progenitor is required to be around after it has been fully developed.

It's not a requirement, exactly. For me personally, with the passage of time, I tend to think of Xtainity and Judaism as faith siblings, related by a common history and growing in parallel lives. The central characters in the xtian narrative are all Jews, afterall. I think of this analogy: Xtianity and Judaism are two kids in the back seat sort of arguing about whom their mutual parent loves best. God is behind the wheel saying "Stop it! I love you equally!" LOL!

Christians do not need Jews to be around. At least not to form the core of their belief.

Actually, I argue that we do need it. Though not many will admit it. I tend to find that in a lot of churches there is little to no incentive to learn the history of the church. WHere it came from. Where the central ideas came from, how they developed over time. Who the first xtains were (mostly Jews and Greek pagans). That there was a variety of thought in the early church. The notion of Jesus's divinity was entirely up for grabs, for example. In some cases, Jesus and his camp have been stripped of their Jewishness, sanitized for our protection. If you go to sunday school, you hear they went to "temple" without relating it to the fact that there are present-day Jews also go to temple and belong to a synagogue. Or that one of the pet names for Jesus was "Rebbe", "teacher."

It's getting better in the Presby church, I hear more of this discourse now than I did when I was young. But I'd like to see more. In fact I hunger for it. I have no idea what the fundamentalist churches are teaching on this aspect. Honestly, even here in the bible belt, I don't know anyone who is fundamentalist.

Part of this is in any modern church, there is a natural emphasis on the here and now. You get caught up in the day to day runnings of the church (who's on what committee, are we meeting our budget?, I hate that hymn!) the institution, rather than more activities designed to let you, the individual, contemplate your navel about the nature of God. Being an individualist who rather enjoys the one-on-one experience, that is an aspect of the modern church I struuggle with.

Anyway, after getting OT, I think if xtians did study more about Judaism, it would help to highlight our own theology and provide more of a context in which to place xtianity, rather than letting people grow up with the idea that Xtianity is the "most special religion, ever," and the spiritual chauvanism that can come with it.

It is an irony of history that the fate of the Jews was written into the prophesized ends times of the Christian bible. Thus they had a reason not to eradicate them. Thus they survive.

Like the poster above, I'm not so sure this is tied strictly to religion. It might just be a cultural thing on the part of northern Europeans with a drive for empire. There is little evidence of hate crimes against the Jews in Europe until the Crusades. The two ideas seemed to be linked somehow. Also, if we learned more about how xtainity formed, I think there would be a lot less vitriol all the way around.

edit: Also, Revelation is John's private "sleep depravation and extreme isolation diary" is how one poster put it. I think that's apt. I tend to leave John with his own personal torment. Personally, I don't think much of end times theology. And I think the current focus on it is sick.

I would also say that this isn't limited strictly to Christianity. Human history is filled with examples of one idea supplanting another. The alphabet supplanted the oral tradition. The wheel supplanted the horse and oxen. Agriculture supplanted namadic hunting and gathering. It's possible that at some point in the future Christianity or Islam will spawn their own spin-off religions.