Was Jesus Black?

[catbert836]

Given the area that He lived in, its more likely that He had brown or darker skin, similar to Arabs today. I've heard, though, that He might've been black from somewhere. Is there any proof for this?

[lefador]

1. African American revisionist theory

That is just one of them silly revisionist theories that every now and then ultra proud people come up with. There are idiots in every race, and that includes blacks too.

If Jesus was indeed born in Israel at that period of time, chances are that he was of semitic stock. What we understand for Palestinians or original Jews (Jewish stock before the diaspora). Which means Jesus was Caucasian (if we are to classify him/her into a major race).

That is just in line with the theories about the Egyptians being mostly black, when it was the Nubians (an empire to the South).. the blacks with the pyramids not the Egyptians. It is clear that a lot of the proponents of these theories have never traveled to those places to notice the racial stock and distribution over there, nor they know much about the actual documented history. Some people even propose Beethoven was black....

As I said there are idiots in every race. What was important about Jesus is his message, not his race IMO.

[catbert836]

3. I know. Just curious.

n/t

[11cents]

5. Em - "Jewish stock before the diaspora" is "Jewish stock" today

That's been shown by DNA sampling. (DNA tests also show a relatively close relationship between Jews from across the world and Palestinians.) There haven't been many periods before the present day when intermarriage or conversion to Judaism were common. I mention this mainly because it's been a ploy of assorted not-nice factions, including the Christian Identity movement to distinguish between "original" Jews -- like Jesus and the people in the Bible, whom they usually refer to as "Hebrews" -- and the "fake" Jews of today, or to distinguish between "real Jews" and Ashkenazim.

Anyway, I agree with your basic point. "Black," "white", etc., are modern constructs anyway; there's little evidence that ancient peoples divided humanity up in this way.

[InvisibleBallots]

22. you're missing about 1000 years of history here

"I mention this mainly because it's been a ploy of assorted not-nice factions, including the Christian Identity movement to distinguish between "original" Jews -- like Jesus and the people in the Bible, whom they usually refer to as "Hebrews" -- and the "fake" Jews of today, or to distinguish between "real Jews" and Ashkenazim."

The aristocratic families of Western Europe, the British Israel movement, thousands of medival European factions, Orthodox Christianity in genernal - have all claimed to be decended from the ancient kingdom of Israel for more than 1000 years - just like Jews. It's true that there are movements like CI that make simliar claims - but this is *hardly* a new thing - it's been claimed since before the beginning of printed history.

To this day, the Queen of England, the royal families of Netherlands and Belgium, German aristocracy - ALL claimed to be deceneded from King David and King Solomon, and represent an unbroken link from the "Ancient Kingdom of Israel".

As to the genetic research you mentioned, I've read about it as well. I've also read that genetic research has shown that the Welsh, Scotish, and Irish have almost no connection with the Celts as well. I don't think we know much of anything conclusively yet. Genetics will probably help us get a clearer grasp on history in the future.

[Hieronymus]

6. Those same folks believe Cleopatra was black.

Cleopatra was a Ptolemy who was descended from Ptolemy I, a general of Alexander, who became king of Egypt after Alexander's death in 323 BC.

[aquart]

13. However...

There was a period when Ethiopians seized the Egyptian throne. And it's quite clear from tomb painting that people with negroid features frequently achieved high office in pharaonic Egypt.

If you really want to see black Egyptian culture, check out Meroe.

[Kahuna]

8. If the message is what's important, why did you go out of your way..

to insult a whole race of people? You said nothing of white revisionist history that depicts him as fair with blond hair and blue eyes. I agree that the message is what's important, not the race. So, I would simply answer the question, it's not important. And nobody knows. And neither do you.

For your information, the reason some blacks think Jesus was black is not because of revisionist history as you call it, but because of the biblical description of Jesus and Solomon. The Bible describes Jesus as having eyes like coal and hair like wool. Some think that would describe the dark eyes and woolly hair characteristics of black people. But of course it can also describe someone with flashing eyes and a person with gray or white hair. So, try not to be so harsh and absolute in your judgements. Especially when you don't know what you're talking about.

The one thing I will agree with you about is, there being idiots in every race. :eyes:

[aquart]

14. He was house of David. David had a lotta wives.

No reason to believe he didn't sample as many kinds of women as he could get.

What passage says Christ's hair was like wool? Eisler came up with a different description, based on a reconstruction of Roman arrest warrants (if you can believe it). That had him looking more India Indian than Negroid because he had a long thin nose. But Egyptian hair can be very wooly. Hell, they made my grandfather ride in the back of the bus down South after getting a look at him. Lithuanian accent didn't matter a bit.

There was enormous traffic in that area. Rabbi Hillel's work shows influence of late Confucian thought. Proto-Celtic tribes were hiring out as mercenaries.

And there was a thriving slave market with no racial barrier on the kind of slaves trafficked.

DNA in that neighborhood must have been an absolute treat.

[InvisibleBallots]

20. our ancient history is in serious need of some revisionism

The racial stock and distribution is probably quite different today than it was 1000 or 2000 years ago. Also, what of this "actual documented history" exactly? I suspect most of the writings that come from the ancient world are largely myth and fiction, even the ones that we generally assume are "history".

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I don't know

Most early mosaics show someone who is dark haired and brown skinned. Don't think I've ever seen a picture of Jesus showing him with the characteristic hair of Africans, though.

[Selteri]

4. No proof he was Black

There is a lot of evidence to suggest that he was arabic and typical of the Arabs of that day which includes

- Darker - Mediteranian Skin - Was officially termed to be white because of the idea that people wouldn't accept a savior who wasn't the same color as they are.

- Darker - Mediteranian Eyes - Brown or Hazel eyes with a slim probability of green eyes. Eyes were change to blue to portray 'the innocence from sin' based upon the fact that children are more often born with blue eyes.

- Darker - Mediteranian hair - Brown or Black, there are very very few blonds ande ven less red haired people living in that area of the world. Again hair color was chanrged.

These of course are the minor problems if you also consider.

Jesus wasn't poor, carpenters of that day were well off, enough that they were able to pay for him to be trained as a Rabbi. He just wasn't 'wealthy' either. He would be the equivilant today of the upper - middle-class. Even carpenters of today are the middle class on average.

[catbert836]

9. "He wasn't poor"

Of course He was. While carpenters were very wealthy in that day, there is no evidence that He ever used any of that money on Himself and instead gave it to less fortunate people, or just never touched it.

[aquart]

15. There was a wonderful PBS series

That pointed out that the current image of Jesus, the blue-eyed guy with the beard, is just the old image of the most famous statue of Zeus, reproduced in miniature for the souvenir trade and thus familiar to the entire Mediterrannean world. The dying and reviving god that the Pieta part of Christianity is based on used a much younger, beardless man for its image. Zeus had more gravity.

[MADem]

7. I'm guessing he looked like a cross between

Usama bin Ladin and Yassir Arafat. Skinny and short.

He was a Semite, like they are.

[Angry Girl]

10. I would say JC was dark-skinned, if that's what you mean

The poor fellow's gotten whitewashed through the ages and the various dominating cultures. If you look at portraits of JC, his skin and hair color change with the predominant culture, so that's not the best way to determine what he looked like.

I think the Bible still says something about Moses being African. If the word "Libya" is used, that was one of the terms used for Africa by certain scholars. Anyways, we all know Moses did not look anything like Charleton Heston.

Also there's Black Virgin Mary's also known as Black Madonnas all over the place. And these were not inculturated. If these ancient portraits are accurate, I don't see why she would have skin dark enough to be called "black" but give birth to what we today think of as a Mediterranean-featured little boy....

Also I thought the Arabs were a nomadic culture. Which Arabs are you talking about? Go to the Sudan, which was once part of Egypt, and you will see how dark-skinned they are there.

[illflem]

11. Far as I'm concerned

there's no proof that Jesus existed at all except in some author's mind.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. For sure he was NOT blond and blue eyed..

Here is the picture from www.liberallikechrist.com

[Zhade]

16. Interesting how there are no flames here.

Yet ask if he was gay, and WOW, some show their true colors (not you, we're cool).

I guess "gay" is the new "n*gger".

[Kahuna]

18. No flames? Blacks get accused of "revisionist" history and you

don't consider that a flame?

[Zhade]

19. Er, damn good point. Musta missed that post!

Quite disturbing.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Didn't I ask this question?

I did ask it in your post...not ONE person responded! It is more offensive to think he could have been gay then black, but had this question been asked, say 30 years ago, I am sure this thread would have had more flames and freaks. Although post one was kinda scary!

Jesus, if he did exist, was most likely, darker-skinned, with dark hair, and dark eyes. Blue eyes and blond hair are recessive traits, so it would be pretty thin chance he could have had those traits. But, who really knows?

[JVS]

17. Semites are caucasians