Why does Pat Robertson wants to convince people no Christians in England?

[FormerDittoHead]

OK, I don't WATCH his channel, but I flip around the channels and occasional see something which I remember.

I'm Episcopal, so this bit stuck with me.

Around Halloween and the release of the new Harry Potter movie, there was a woman Pat was interviewing who claimed that there were now more witches in England than Christians. Pat asked her, are you sure about that? There were surveys done? She replied, "Well, if you talk to any of the witches we talked to, that's what they'll tell you..." etc.

*flip*

OK, but YESTERDAY on the same channel they had this guy talking his non-sense about the Rapture, etc, and I listened to him while trying to fall asleep to take a nap. But he said that there were 'virtually' no Christians in England any more, more Muslims in France, etc. The Western Hemisphere was the only place where Christians remained...

So, in one month of pure random flipping I was told twice that there are no longer Christians in England. I can only imagine how many other times this 'message' was being sent if I actually watched the channel on a regular basis.

I don't have to Google anything - common sense tells me there are plenty of Christians in England, and that witches are probably groups of desparate housewives channelling their energies into celticized tupperware parties, rather than sacrificing babies to the devil.

But the question that lingers is what agenda does Pat Robertson have for seeing this message get out to his American followers? Does he have something against England?

[achtung_circus]

1. He has something about Furrinners.

He varies the message depending on which group of furrinners he's talking about. No more.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Maybe in Pat's eyes, British Episcopalians aren't "real" Christians as

they haven't joined his church and given him their life savings.

[jody]

3. Remember Robertson said Episcopalians are Antichrists.

[xchrom]

6. i knew i was doing something right.

[Midnight Rambler]

30. Catholics and Methodists too

See, he doesn't discriminate. He thinks everyone is an agent of Satan!

[MrBenchley]

4. His target audience is the really stupid and gullible of the world

"what agenda does Pat Robertson have for seeing this message get out to his American followers?"
Roiling them up so they'll send him their nickels....

[shenmue]

5. I guess he means...

they aren't 'his kind' of Christians.

Then again, it seems almost nobody is.

[RC]

8. 'his kind' of Christians sent him money.

All other kinds of Christians are nor real Christians.

[kevinbgoode]

7. If Pat Robertson is a representative of "christianity"

then it would be small wonder that decreasing numbers of people would want to be publicly identified with such a religion.

[Botany]

9. He does have a real disconnect with reality.

The Anglican Church and the Arch Bishop of Canterbury don't exist either.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. My son just got back

from 10 days in London. So I asked him. He tells me he saw plenty of CHRISTIAN churches and only ONE Islamic temple. Oh, and he didn't see ANY covens or signs of witches worshipping together.

He also wants to know why I am watching Pat Robertson. :eyes:

[kenny blankenship]

11. It's just furriners as respondent #1 said

Robertson thrives on Xtian paranoia. His product for sale to the public is the idea that America is a white Xtian homeland surrounded by demonic threats: England is full of devil worshipping witches, France isn't just full of French people and papists and atheists, but now they're Muslim! It goes on and on like that.

[kwassa]

12. Robertson is alienating himself further from even the far-right

Some of the his uttereances have been so extreme that even the conservative religious right sees him as a crackpot, which he is, of course.

Do you remember when he was praying every night on TV to have God take the lives of the more liberal justices on the Supreme Court, so they could be replaced with conservatives?

Robertson has been losing much of his authority in recent years on the right due to his wackiness. Dobson is now seen as the pre-eminent religious right spokesman.

[eallen]

13. Sigh. I knew these rumors of religion dying in England were too hopeful.

If there is any place religion should die, it would be England, home to David Hume and Bertrand Russell. I guess people just like myths with their coffee and breakfast.

[thefool_wa]

14. Jesus would weep

I have listened to a few things Pat Robertson has said over the past mont or so (including this post - which is ludicrous) and I have come to two conclusions:

1) Pat is completely detached from reality
2) The religion he preaches is NOT Christianity

Christianity is about hope, peace, love, and understanding. All Pat preaches is hate, distrust, anger, and oppression.

Maybe he should read a little of the book he holds so dear.

[norml]

15. They don't send him enough money, so Pat's pissed.

[OnionPatch]

16. I was told awhile back by an evangelical

the same sort of thing about Europe. There are actually stats that show people are less religious in Europe in general than we in the US, and also that Muslims are increasing there. From what I gathered, the evangelicals are quite upset about this because they think it means they (white Christians) will be in the minority in the future. (Maybe they're right, but my reaction is 'so what?') My friend went on to blame it on birth control and abortion and "the breakdown of the family." :eyes:

My take on it is that there are several "lessons" that Robertson wants to get across to his sheeple, er, I mean followers. One is that we must not use birth control (keep women barefoot and pregnant) and the other is that we cannot allow our culture to evolve into something like Europe with all their socialism, diversity, and their secular and cultural freedoms.

Just more of the same controlling garbage..... Hey Pat, why don't you start teaching the words of Jesus instead of cultivating fear and hatred?

[TalkingDog]

17. Pat's right....sorta

Technically British subjects are all members of the Church of England. The Church is sponsored by the state.

However, the effect of that is opposite of what we are experiencing here in the States. In the US, with no state run religion, people feel compelled to support religion. In the UK where you are the member of a church whether you like it or not, people feel compelled to be free of the burden of imposed religion, sometimes taking up another one entirely.

Wicca, Druidism and other neo-pagan religions are incredibly popular there. So is interest in "Native American" teaching. Which unfortunately leaves them open to all sorts of "native american" wise men taking their money and throwing them a few bits of "wisdom" I wish I were a less ethical person, with my native american background and access to a tanning bed, I could be rich right now.

Church attendence is abysmal, something like 10 percent or less attend church at all or even call themselves Christian. In America the lowest attendence in a region is like 21%. Charlotte NC has the highest regular attendence at 51%.

Most of this info I got from a British native. He may be as crazy as Pat, but his PhD from Oxford (or DPhil as they call them) in psychology and religion make me think he may be a little better informed than Pat.

[adriennui]

19. oxford is impressive,

but we have some big-time idiots who've gone to impressive US schools as well,i.e., robertson and the chimp both went to yale.

[tjwmason]

21. I'm sorry but that's nonsense.

The Church of England is part of the state, but only those who wish to join it (by Baptism) are members. There is no state sponsorship of the C.ofE. The Queen appoints the Bishops, and the 26 most senior of them sit in the House of Lords; Church legislation has to pass through Parliament. But not one penny of tax-payer money goes to the Church, and nobody is forced to join.

The Church of Scotland is recognised as the "national church" but there is no formal linkage - other than the Queen sending a commissioner to attend (but not to vote) at the General Assembly.

There is no legally recognised church in either Wales or Northern Ireland.

Church attendance here is indeed very low - but it's still far higher than any form of Wicca, I can also state that I've only met 1 Wiccan over here. To claim that they're "incredibly popular" is also nonsense - the vast majority don't even know that they exist. Islam is the second largest religion, and though attendance at Mosques beats the C.ofE., it's still way below attendance at Church regardless of denomination (R.C. Mass attandance beats the C.ofE. F.W.I.W.).

On the otherhand, the 2001 census had about 70% of the population self-identify as Christian (certainly a tad higher than your claim 10%), an about half of the English population is Baptised into the C.ofE. (which is entirely voluntary, on the part of the parents though).

The person who gave you that information may need to get some accurate information before producing such suggestions.

[TalkingDog]

22. Like I said, he may be wrong... I don't vouch for him

Nor do I wish to research the subject. But if you want to spend hours looking up facts and figures, I applaud your dedication to truth on the Internets.

[TalkingDog]

23. Rather than discussing "self-identified" x-tians, I mentioned ATTENDANCE

which is an entirely different ball of wax.

The figures I quoted for American attendence, I read in a news article, so I at least know those are accurate as of 3 years ago.

Many Americans who "self-identify" as Christians do NOT attend church at all, much less on a regular basis. Hence the disparity between the 21% national average and the much higher self-identification.

Other than that, I make no claim to direct knowledge of how things work on the other side of the pond.

[tjwmason]

24. Both figures are important, and you mentioned both.

Church attendence is abysmal, something like 10 percent or less attend church at all or even call themselves Christian.

I think that "call themselves Christian" is pretty much the same thing as self-identify as Christian.

Church attendance is far lower in Europe than the U.S. - and one of the reasons usually cited is that people feel that just by being English (for example) one is a Christian (this is legally a Christian country, unlike the U.S.) and thus that church attendance is not relevant. As a Church attender I'm not a subscriber to that view - but it is certainly held by many.

The Church of England has a large penumbra of folk who rarely attend, but would always marry there, have their funeral there, and have their children Baptised - contrary to what Robertson says neither he nor I really know whether these are "Christian".

The original point still remains - that most English people consider themselves to be Christian, and thus Robertson's point is based on his personal categorisation of people as non-Christian. He would probably count the entire C.ofE. as non-Christian though as well.

[TalkingDog]

25. Good catch... I stand entirely corrected.

Pat considers anybody who doesn't send him money non-Christian.

[Bolo Boffin]

18. Pat is a proponent of premillenialism

It's a doctrine of the last days which says that Jesus will be returning to earth to reign over a united world from his throne in Jerusalem. This should be happening any day now, and it's this doctrine's momentum that has fueled the religious right's takeover of the GOPs and thus, the United States.

Many people who subscribe to this doctrine see the ten-headed beast from Revelation of John as the European Union. So the continued drift of Europe away from Christianity is further proof to these disciples to get their dress robes ready for the Kingdom of Heaven's Inaugural Ball in Tel Aviv.

I can't help that this sounds crazy.

[leftstreet]

20. Fundraising

On any other channel when you send in your check you'll usually get a tummy-tightener or can-opener as your reward. On the God channels your reward is salvation.

Go to the phone now. Go to the phone now.

[Dead_Parrot]

26. Yeah, right.

2001 census information, from http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/ssdataset.asp?vlnk=7212

___________000's___%
Christian....37,338....71.7
Muslim........1,547....3.0
Hindu............552....1.1
Sikh..............329....0.6
Jewish...........260....0.5
Buddhist........144....0.3
Other............151....0.3

All religions.40,322....77.5

No religion..7,709....14.8
not stated..4,011....7.7

Witches will be a part of the "Other" category.
Conclusion: Pat's still full of shit. No surprises there, then.

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. He's probably still pissed after the Bank of Scotland told him to sod off

The Bank of Scotland has scrapped a controversial deal with outspoken television evangelist Pat Robertson.

The telephone banking venture had been widely expected to collapse after Dr Robertson said Scotland was "a dark land" overrun by homosexuals.
...
The Bank of Scotland had appointed Dr Robertson as chairman of the new venture and was keen to use his millions of followers as a customer base for its first big step into the US market.

But bank came under increasing pressure to drop the project, which also pushed down the bank's share price by almost 4%.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_company_file/361736.stm

Basically, it turned out the whole of Scotland thought he was a raving bigot, and threatened to boycott the Bank of Scotland if they continued to do business with him. (BofS is now part of a British-wide bank, and the distinction between England and Scotland probably isn't important here).

[applegrove]

28. He is trying to create the new christianity in his image - power & war

based - not concerned with poverty and voting for tax cuts.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. Fundies do not count non-fundies as Christians

That's a large part of it.

The liberal attitude of most Episcopalians toward GLBT issues probably comes close to giving old Pat a stroke.

Church attendance in England and the rest of Western Europe is low and by most accounts, it's been low since before World War II. However, from what I hear from the expatriates I know, the patterns are uneven, with some parishes too unattended to remain viable and others thriving.