Seeking the Hand Of God in the Waters (Tsunami)

[joefree1]

Seeking the Hand Of God in the Waters

By Jose Antonio Vargas
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 31, 2004; Page C01

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Shlomo Amar, Israel's Sephardi chief rabbi, has said, "This is an expression of God's great ire with the world. The world is being punished for wrongdoing -- be it people's needless hatred of each other, lack of charity, moral turpitude."

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On his Web site Watch.org, Bill Koenig writes: "The Biblical proportions of this disaster become clearly apparent upon reports of miraculous Christian survival. Christian persecution in these countries is some of the worst in the world." Eight of the 12 countries hit -- Malaysia, Burma, Bangladesh, Somalia, Maldives, Sri Lanka, India and Indonesia, he says -- "are among the top 50 nations who persecute Christians."

Koenig, who lives in Alexandria and started the site in 1996, sees the South Asian disaster as an example of Christian exceptionalism. "What happened, and we see this happen over and over again, was that Christians, supernaturally, have been able to escape from harm's way," says the self-described Christian fundamentalist. " 'For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, not ever shall be,' " he says, quoting from Matthew 24:21.

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Sutadhara Tapovanaye, a Buddhist monk for 38 of his 48 years, tries to explain it differently. This, he says, is a part of life, the dynamics of nature, an always-changing world.

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37677-2004Dec30.html?sub=new

Posted on Fri, Dec. 31, 2004
Tsunami challenges survivors' faith
BY MANYA A. BRACHEAR

Chicago Tribune
Some evangelical Christians believe the great waves are "birth pangs" leading up to the Rapture, in which Christian believers will be swept up to heaven by Christ before judgement is rendered on those left behind.

Todd Strandberg, founder of Raptureready.com, a Web site dedicated to documenting the fulfillment of the Biblical prophecy of the "end times," said the tsunami should cause people to evaluate their lives.

"To have all those people die shows us that we have got the gift of life and a limited time here on earth," he said. "I think that's why disasters occur. He wants to remind us that we have a limited time on earth. And the survivors should take note of that."

Some Muslims also will attribute the disaster to divine plan, experts said. Though it may be difficult, believers are expected as soon as possible to recognize and submit to the majesty of God without losing sight of his compassion and mercy.
More ...
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/nation/10538253.htm

Pagan earth lover view; "shit happens."


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PaganWarrior/

[Liberal Veteran]

1. That Koenig asshole should rot in hell.

What a prick.

[Burma Jones]

2. How about this explanation.......

Bigger Populations mean bigger Death Tolls, fucking DUH

The Pagan is right, shit happens, and if there are more people in the way of the shit as it is distributed by the fan, then the death toll rises.

The fundies need to know that we have had bigger earthquakes, more devastating floods and more loss of life in the past. The only difference is that we now have a voyeuristic media that has a fetish for human suffering.............


On Edit:

The fundies should acknowledge that the earthquake and the resulting tsunamis may be the product of "semi"-intelligent design. I mean, c'mon, what decent engineer couldn't see the potential trouble with tectonic plates rubbing against each other...............

[acmavm]

3. I am flabbergasted and amazed at this shit:

<snip>

On his Web site Watch.org, Bill Koenig writes: "The Biblical proportions of this disaster become clearly apparent upon reports of miraculous Christian survival. Christian persecution in these countries is some of the worst in the world." Eight of the 12 countries hit -- Malaysia, Burma, Bangladesh, Somalia, Maldives, Sri Lanka, India and Indonesia, he says -- "are among the top 50 nations who persecute Christians."

Koenig, who lives in Alexandria and started the site in 1996, sees the South Asian disaster as an example of Christian exceptionalism. "What happened, and we see this happen over and over again, was that Christians, supernaturally, have been able to escape from harm's way," says the self-described Christian fundamentalist. " 'For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, not ever shall be,' " he says, quoting from Matthew 24:21.

<snip>

I am so damn sick and tired of bigots and fundies and freaks making a mockery out of Christianity. This is just out there. What the hell does this dumb ass think about natural disasters that hit so-called 'Christian' countries? Like the Florida hurricanes. Both of them. Not one but two of them right in a row. What the hell were these poor people getting paid back for???????????? Not death and destruction on such a magnitude, but just the same. This guy needs a serious ass kicking.

These poor people who are suffering are our brothers and sisters. It's bigots like this, really evil people, who keep us from understanding this. Bigots in every religion. AAAUUUUUFUCKINGGGGGHHHH.
We are all members of the same family, the family of man/woman.

[Dr.Phool]

7. Thats nothing

Did you catch the Fred Phelps post thenking god for killing 2,000 Swedes.

It was up and running last night and this morning, but seemed to be under a denial of service attack today.

http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/dec2004/Tsunami_12-29-2004.pdf

Some real loons there.

[Dr.Phool]

4. I wish the rapture would happen already

Then we'd be rid of these idiots!

[Stunster]

5. Not all religious believers are irrational

Do you believe it is possible to make a human being in such a way that
if s/he went for a walk in outer space, but without wearing a space-helmet (or other protective gear), no harm would result?

It strikes me that from a rational, scientific point of view, this
would simply be impossible. The existence of a human being implies
the existence of natural laws like the ones that obtain in our
universe, and this would seem to suggest that nothing that was a human
being could survive a walk in space without the necessary protective
clothing. In a cartoon world, this would perhaps be possible. But
that's precisely the point---it would be a cartoon world.

The conclusion one should draw, I think, is that it is logically,
metaphysically, rationally and conceptually impossible to create human beings--or even any being possessing life as we know it in any form--who, no matter what they did or what else happened naturally, would never suffer any physical harm. The possibility and even likelihood of physical suffering and harm seems to be implied in the existence of life as we know it.

Now, physical harm in this world has limits. One *can* go for a
space-walk if you wear the right gear. One can survive a tsunami if
one moves to higher ground as a result of being given a timely
warning. The human body, in fact, can survive a great deal. But
obviously there are, and must be, limits to what it can endure.

The definitive limit, of course, is represented by death. If harm is
too great or too serious, humans will die, and as far as we can tell,
this releases them from any further physical suffering. Nor is our
life expectancy infinite. We can't keep on suffering in this world
for ever. At most, all our suffering will be all over in about a
century, or less. So, it's not as if the world is such that a human
will have to bear, say, severe chronic pain for a thousand years.
Death itself limits our suffering.

There seems, then, to be no way to have human beings exist without
some physical suffering being possible, and indeed being likely to
occur. But it is limited, and human intelligence can limit it
further. And of course a great deal of suffering is due to human
choices, especially immoral choices, rather than from natural causes.
But as far as suffering and harm from natural causes are concerned,
we have no reason to believe that the amount of it that occurs due
purely natural physical factors is any greater than it needs to be,
given our own existence and nature as human beings.

Now, given these apparent facts, which is a better state of affairs
overall: that human beings exist, or that they don't? If you answer, "It's better, overall, that human beings exist than not", then one is giving a positive reason for creating human beings, even if that implies (as it appears to) the possibility and likelihood of harm.

The other thing to note is that the death-toll from this disaster would have been far less had the West shared its tsunami-warning technologies and other resources years ago with south Asian nations, as it probably ought to have. So in large measure, the extent of the death-toll is the result of prior human choices, even if the tsunami itself is not.

[opiate69]

6. Superstitious, ignorant jackasses..

"The Biblical proportions of this disaster become clearly apparent upon reports of miraculous Christian survival."

But Bill, what of the thousands of "Christians" who died? Oh.. nevermind.. I'm sure they weren't "True Christians™"

"What happened, and we see this happen over and over again, was that Christians, supernaturally, have been able to escape from harm's way,"

Uh-huh.. and I'm sure that everybody who survived not only this disaster, but 9-11, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other earthquakes and Hurricanes etc... were all Christians. Not a single Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Kabbalist or atheist among them. Fucktard.

"This is an expression of God's great ire with the world. The world is being punished for wrongdoing -- be it people's needless hatred of each other, lack of charity, moral turpitude."


Yeah.. if this "God" is so pissed, why not just destroy everything and take a mulligan? Or, maybe he should start at the epicenter of all of this hatred-Israel/Palestine.

"Some Muslims also will attribute the disaster to divine plan, experts said. Though it may be difficult, believers are expected as soon as possible to recognize and submit to the majesty of God without losing sight of his compassion and mercy."

Mercy? Like making mothers choose between which son they will save and which one they will let fend for themselves? Or all the children who couldn't even fathom what a tsunami is, let alone escape it? When I imagine the abject horror many of these people felt before they died, a "compassionate and merciful" God is not what I imagine.

[Dr.Phool]

8. So many fundamaniacs, so few lions.

[joefree1]

9. Bwahahahahahah

I like that, pagan humor.


Seating now available in the Smoking Section:
Politics, humor, death and the Devil - http://www.eDiablo.com

[vixengrl]

10. Attack ofThe Domino God-- the sadistic Creator who sets up people

like so many dominoes with a definite plan in mind of how awesome it would be when they all go kerflooey. The notion, to me, that people not only believe in such a God but would agree with, love and fear such a being, rattles me. My thought is that people to an extent create God in their own image. If someone approves of the way such a deity flings about people to express his wrath--I wouldn't trust that person to watch my goldfish. Their notion of the divine is actually a revealing comment about themselves. It is those who prefer to see the event in an impersonal way--who recognize that tragedy simply happens, and it is up to the survivors to pull out of it what they can, without applying to it so much bias, who I think see things in a clearer way.

[scarletwoman]

11. Here's the best comment yet:

From the American Street:
http://www.reachm.com/amstreet/archives/2004/12/30/farrakhan-joins-the-plague-for-lunch-bunch/

According to our embedded reporters in Heaven, Margaret Bourke-White and Ida Wells Barnett, “on Sunday, December 26th, the Rapture occurred. The Lord God, Yahweh ‘Allah’ Buddha-Vishnu, sends his condolences to those who didn’t measure up, but promises to send clearer instructions to the next universe he plans to build.”

sw