Can a person be a Christian while breaking a law that endangers

[heidler1]

other people? Like driving faster than the speed limit which could very well continue for hours. Is this a case of "Oh Lord forgive me for speeding yesterday, most of today and tomorrow too. Driving under the influence is the same. So is driving when you are tired and sleepy, some people think it's more dangerous than driving while drunk. My observations would guess about 80% of drivers speed and about the same number claim to be Christian so any way you slice it most of the drivers are Christian.

[varkam]

1. I'm an atheist, but...

I think one of the central tenets of Christianity is that people are not perfect. We make mistakes. We are infallible. We sin. We break laws - etc. In my estimation, it's perfectly congruent. Christians aren't expected to be absolutely perfect moral beings every second of every day (nor should anyone), they are only expected to try to be good people (as should we all).

[beam me up scottie]

2. I don't think they have on and off switches.

Using the broad definition, pretty much anyone who believes in Jesus as the son of God can claim christianity as their religion.

[varkam]

3. If they did though, that would be pretty neato.

They could turn it on for Sunday, and off for the rest of the week.

[beam me up scottie]

4. That would be convenient.

A lot easier for the fundies, too.

They could say "But my religion was turned off when I lied about the facts, so technically I was an atheist. Blame it on them."

[varkam]

6. It's all our fault.

Damn atheists.

[NMMNG]

31. But in a way some of them do

Sin your ass off, then "confess" and ask for absolution, or at least go to church on Sunday and pray for forgiveness and viola!, all is well again. Too convenient really.

[MemphisTiger]

32. It doesnt' actually work that way

You have to be sorry for your sins, not just say you're sorry if you're following the Catholic guidelines.

[beam me up scottie]

33. My ex-mother-in-law wasn't catholic,

she was a born-again something or other.

She actually believed that she could sin all she wanted and as long as she repented, there was still a cloud reserved in her name.

[MemphisTiger]

41. I'm sorry but she is incorrect

for evangelicals, grace based salvation, if Jesus is actually in your heart you won't have the desire to sin like before salvation. Nobody is saying you'll never sin because we're all sinners, but you certainly won't sin and think you can get around the rules. If she was serious about her statement, when she stands in front of Jesus he'll say "I never knew you" Luke 13:23-30

This of course is the opinion of a Christian.

[heidler1]

9. As an Atheist IMO the willingness of saying you believe that Jesus

is the son of God seems pretty easy, It's a wonder that everyone doesn't do it. However some people hate to lie to themselves. IMO many lie to others about it. I do believe that people lie naturally. However endangering other people does carry some weight with me in regard to belief in Gods being frequently a facade.

[beam me up scottie]

10. What are you trying to say?

Good christians don't ever do anything wrong, ie: if they speed, they are endangering others and cannot, therefore, be real christians?

[heidler1]

18. Yes, but IMO people lie about most everything. Gorillas that learn to

communicate via hand signs have been observed lying, I believe that it is natural in both species. Thus many/most lie about actually believing any form of religious dogma and lie about living up to that dogma, even to themselves. Being on the band wagon is rewarding to many.

[beam me up scottie]

20. I disagree.

I give christians much more credit than you.

My friends who are christians sometimes go over the speed limit and IMO, it doesn't make them any less christian.

They are christians because of their belief in god, not because they think they're better than non-christians.

The morality of their actions does not negate their belief.

[heidler1]

21. To me all humans are imperfect animals. Our perception of Truth is

pretty limited. Like in all things involving the brain and body performance varies between people, but even the very best is imperfect. This includes Christians and Atheists plus everyone else. This does not mean that we are sinful to me.

I was using the inconsistency between religion and behavior to make a point. If that point is true, it has a bearing on human behavior. IMO it could then effect the method of better civilizing the human animal. Currently the Church acts like it has the high ground in regard to civilizing people, but the results are disappointing to me.

[beam me up scottie]

22. I agree with your point about the church,

however not all christians buy into the intolerance preached by others in their religion.

The majority of liberal christians don't consider themselves morally superior to non-christians.

That is why I don't hold them to a higher standard.

Hypocritical behavior by fundies, on the other hand, should be noticed and highlighted as often as possible.

[varkam]

23. Be careful BMUS....

Someone might construe such highlighting as bashing Christianity ;)

[beam me up scottie]

24. Oh, I'm already hated by the bashee-wanna-be's.

I learned a long time ago not to pity straight, white, heterosexual, christian males who whine about how oppressed they are.

For that, I'm called a bigot.

[AmericanErrorist]

5. The real question is

"Can a person be a Christian while enforcing a law that endangers other people?"

Too many think yes.

[varkam]

7. Good point. n/t

[Zhade]

26. That's because it's true.

Christians are every bit as capable of hypocrisy or immoral actions as non-Christians.

A professed Christian is simply a follower of Jesus (caveat: as they each personally interpret his purported teachings). It does not equate to being moral or immoral.

[Dogmudgeon]

8. Ye Olde Self-Delete

--p!

[oldleftguy]

11. It's not a question of heaven or hell...

It's respecting the safety of individual's with whom you drive and share space on that road.

[rucky]

12. Traffic laws were on the tablet that Moses dropped.

[Zenlitened]

16. "I hold here 15 commandments..." *crash!*...

"Er, I hold here 10 commandments..."

:rofl:

[RC]

13. With all the bu$h enablers that think they are Real, True Christians,

plus the Health Clinic bombers and Doctor killers, racists, greedy con-artists, plus other assorted loonies who think they are doing God's work, you are worried about a speeder?

It's not whether you break a law, it is more along the lines of how you treat others on a day to day basis. For an example kicking the dog counts for more than going 10 mph over.

The first 4 books of the New Testament are the least read and least understood of anything man has written.

[sandnsea]

14. A Christian, sure,

a smart driver, no. Christian isn't anything more than believing in a particular path to salvation. I honestly don't know why some people have to classify every move somebody makes as "Christian" or not. Is it Christian to not turn the pot handles back on the stove? Is it Christian to use child proof caps on medication? Is it Christian to sanitize your kitchen with bleach? What if you don't and somebody gets hurt and dies, are you not Christian anymore?

Gads, enjoy your life and do good when you can. And quit hammering people over the head about whether they're "Christian" enough to fit into some preconceived mold that is really nothing more than an opportunity for self-righteous condemnation.

[Zhade]

27. "Christian isn't anything more than believing in a particular path..."

Thank you for pointing this out.

[saltpoint]

15. Jesus walked. He had two feet and used them to get from one place to

another. There were no motor vehicles, no driver licenses.

He wasn't Christian, either.

[Inland]

34. He was on his father's side.

Old joke.

[saltpoint]

37. : ) / nt

[Nikia]

17. I don't think most people really believe they are endangering others

When they are breaking traffic laws. If they really believed that there was a good chance that they would get in an accident, they probably wouldn't drive that way regardless of their religious beliefs. Most people who drive in unfavorable conditions or who speed believe that they can drive safely.

[heidler1]

19. True. However if pointing it out causes some of them to slow down it

proves that even an Atheist might do some good with only words.

[Zhade]

25. Of course they can - 'Christian' does not mean 'moral'.

It means "professed follower of Christ".

Christians - and believers of all kinds - can be immoral and do wrong just as atheists can be moral and do right.

[BiggJawn]

28. So where did Jesus say...

"Verily, verily, I say unto YOU.Be ye not driving faster than that which Caesar hath decreed when in thy 12-passenger mini-chariot with the chrome Icthys on the back..."

Don't think that kill-joy Paul of Tarsus weighed in on the matter, either.

But wasn't "Thou Shalt not SPEED" covered in the Gnostic Gospels?
But it doesn't nmatter anyway, because a Christian speed-demon is covered in The Blood.

[InaneAnanity]

29. You can be a christian and do lots of things

You can be a christian and murder people, you can be a christian and rape little children, you can be a christian and committ suicide. You can even be trusted by others as a beacon of christianity, and abuse that trust for your own personal perposes.

Given this, you can certainly be a christian and drive faster than the speed limit.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. If you make a commitment and do your best, you remain a Christian

It's like being married. Getting mad at your spouse or even being unfaithful does not necessarily invalidate the marriage.

Nobody is perfect. That's what original sin really means. It's a metaphor to describe why everyone screws up. No one could remain a Christian if that implied perfect adherence to all the moral, ethical, and societal rules.

[hunter]

35. The Amish don't drive cars.

Christ didn't drive a car.

Probably all of us who drive cars are going to hell.

:evilgrin:

[Inland]

36. This is a great OP for it illustrates something about the religion threads

It's not about whether one should speed or not.

It's not about the ethics of lawbreaking.

It's not about taking risks.

And of course, the OP doesn't say whether or not HE speeds.

So what exactly IS the point? It sure isn't anything about traffic safety. It's about creating a new standard tailored solely to christians for the sole purpose of declaring them inadequate and hypocrites.

Heres an alternative. The concept that, yeah, nobody should endanger other people and there is some sort of standard of behavior that everyone should strive for. Because I don't think that traffic safety should be limited to a specific religion, do you?

[InaneAnanity]

38. No, Inland

I'm equally against all religions, not just christianity.

It just so happens, though, that christians live next door, and are making the laws I have to live under. So that is my main focus, as it should be.

[Inland]

39. Like the speeding laws? Goddamn christians and their thirty mph.

Again, this thread is ostensibly about christians and speeding, whereas your ostensible forcus is christians making laws. But it's a ruse. There's nothing about the fact of christians making laws that makes you anti christian or makes religion the crux of every issue. Or rather, it doesn't provide an excuse to try to make religion the crux of every issue.

[beam me up scottie]

40. Here, try this:

He still won't get it but it'll make you feel better.