No more special rights for Christians.

[undergroundpanther]

Culture Wars Over Male Privilege, White Privilege, and Christian Privilege:
A nonconscious ideology is analogous to the water fish swim in: fish don’t think of the water as wet because this environment is all they know — it structures their experience of life itself. Water simply is. Members of privileged groups don’t have to think about their environment because, for them, that environment simply is. They don’t have to be concerned about others’ opinions because it’s safe to assume that most think like them.
Those who don’t benefit from such an environment do have to think about it all the time because they are so susceptible to being harmed by it. For members of less privileged groups, what others think matters a great deal because their opinions and actions control access to the larger benefits of society.

Fish don’t have to think about the water; mammals must remain conscious of it at all times lest they drown.

In most of the examples here, we can replace Christian/religion with male/gender or white/race and come up with the same results: examples of how our social, political, and cultural environment reinforce the dominance of one group over others. Male privilege and white privilege are closely related to Christian privilege because they have all been undermined by modernity and have all become part of America’s Culture Wars.

Christians realize that many of the above privileges are in decline. They interpret this as persecution because privilege is all they have ever known. The same is true when men complain about the decline of male privilege and whites complain about the decline of white privilege. The defense of privilege is a defense of dominance and discrimination, but for those who benefit it’s a defense of their traditional way of life. They need to become conscious of their privileges and realize that in a free society, such privileges are inappropriate.
http://atheism.about.com/od/christianismnationalism/p/XianPrivileges.htm

[NMMNG]

1. Excellent article

The other day a friend of mine was whining because in the local schools some undefined group was allegedly demanding that the school "take Christmas off the calendar" because it didn't also celebrate other religious holidays that occurred around the same time of year. Her opinion? "This is a Christian nation, and if the Jews, Muslims and other people don't like it they can &%$#@* leave! This multiculturalism crap can only go so far before everything explodes. "


:banghead:

[NMMNG]

2. Dupe

oops

[Bernardo de La Paz]

3. "Born again" doesn't entitle you to twice the rights.

Being "born again" doesn't entitle you to twice the rights.

[Maraya1969]

4. This is what I was trying to convey in another post any many jumped

down my throat. Does anyone have the link to the original thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1025626&mesg_id=1025626

EDIT: forget the dupe thing. I was confused.

[bloom]

5. I think that even as patriarchal as we know our culture is

That is could actually be worse. I think instead of throwing out everything entirely - like with anarchism (which would favor men) - we would be better off if we improved on what we had. If that means secularizing religion even more and/or creating new feminist religions - whatever.

To me - doing nothing is not a solution. I think it leads to the "religion" of ridicule of whomever thinks differently and the religion of "dominance" - whether through money, sports, consumerism, guns, porn, whatever.

I think it takes a conscious effort and group participation to get to a culture of simplicity, peace, and respect. It doesn't happen by accident.


The direction we do NOT want to go:

Seen in the Carnival of Feminists - women as commodities - from a woman from India:

...So now that we have established that foeticide and infanticide ALONE has contributed to ten million girls being obliterated, and the sex ratio has successfully fallen steadily from 962 women to every 1000 boys in 1981, to 927 girls to every 1000 boys in 2002; has the horribly skewed sex ratio helped in actually improving the abhorrent status of women in India? The answer is a big, fat, NO. Yet again, unscrupulous men are making a mockery of this gender disparity by trading women around as if they were commodities. Women are possessions remember? Now, the ever enterprising vermins in Haryana, where female foeticide and infanticide have reached unmitigated heights, are making use of the gender dissimilitude to propagate a thriving business in "sexual brides", and yes, you heard me right. Women are in great demand as the sex ratio in some parts of Haryana are as deplorable as 493 girls for every 1000 boys, so it is self-evident that a single woman can be bought and sold MANY times.

Case in point: the story of Tanu *name changed*. Belonging to a poor family (in Haryana), AND being fairly goodlooking was her downfall. She was sold for a paltry five thousand rupees at the age of 16 to a dubious looking middle aged swine, who 'promised' to marry her. To no ones surprise, he raped her repeatedly and sold her for twenty thusand rupees and patted himself on the back for making a good 'profit'. But Tanu's horrific travails did not end there. Oh no it didnt. She was taken to Rajasthan where she was 'shared' between three brothers, and when she overheard one of them talking about selling her off yet again, she grew desperate and fled. But how far could a fleeing girl travel alone with no money or possessions, in a place alien to her?
Not very far, as the impotent beasts ganged up on her, raped her, and beat her senselessly until her body resembled a bloody mass of flesh and bones.

As I sat listening to this harrowing tale narrated to me by our Shanthi-bai in India, I could see the tears running down her face and I gingerly asked her if she knew Tanu. I sat there praying and wishing with all my heart, that the answer would be in the negative, but alas my fears bore fruit. Tanu was her sister.

Numerous other cases of "sexual brides" have been reported, and some of these girls are no older than fifteen. Sadly, this trafficking has not diminished albeit the demand for brides has only increased; resulting in smuggling girls, living in abject poverty ridden conditions to seemingly richer states like Punjab or Haryana where the sex ratio is conspicuously skewed.

http://tamilpunkster.blogspot.com/2006/04/unprolonged-journey-from-womb-to-tomb.html

and there are the abduction (otherwise know as rape) "marriages"

Victim of the Tradition
By Nurilya

When I studied at school I had a classmate. She studied excellently. She planned to be a doctor in the future. Her family was big. There were five daughters and no boys in her family. It troubled her father. He thought a boy would be his heir. The role of a boy is more important than a girl in our Kyrgyz family. She and her sisters loved their father best of all and respected him.

After finishing school she entered the university. She studied very well at the university. Then one day her countryman kidnapped her and abducted her for marriage. She was shocked and didn’t expect such an outcome. She wanted to run away and threatened suicide. She even argued that she had a boyfriend, but all in vain.

The role of the relatives is big too in the life of a Kyrgyz person. Her relatives made her stay. They said your father blessed you. If you refuse our family would be shamed. She eventually gave in. Gradually their marriage was crashing. Several times she tried to kill herself. Eventually he set her free.

This is just one example. According to some estimates, upwards of 30 percent of the country’s married women have been snatched from the street by their husbands in a custom known as "ala kachuu" which translates roughly as "grab and run."
According to some estimates in the Naryn region alone an estimated 55 percent of all women were abducted against their will and forced into marriage. Only 10 percent of abducted women dared to stand for their rights and leave their abductors....

http://kgstudents.blogspot.com/2006/04/victim-of-tradition.html