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'Religious experience' induced by mushrooms?

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Jeroen Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:11 PM
Original message
'Religious experience' induced by mushrooms?
A dreamy trip about Heaven I would like to share:

A few times a year I take a mushroom trip, mostly Mexican.
I have been doing this for almost 15 years now and it has changed / influenced my religious believes in a profound way. I would like to share my last ‘religious’ experience / trip which I had just after my grandmother died.

In the book ‘The teachings of Don Juan’ by Castaneda, Don Juan, a Yaqui Indian, talks about mushrooms and the Alleys. The ally is best described as the ‘voice of the mushroom’ and this voice is different for each person. After a few years of experimenting with the mushroom I developed a strong relationship with my own ally. This may sound strange but for me the ally is a reality, like a very close friend. I came to know this ally long before I even knew of the book of Castaneda and in the beginning it felt as if God spoke directly to me. Now I know that God isn’t the one who is speaking, it is simply the mushroom – or ally. Nevertheless, the boundary between God and ally is vague and sometimes I think of the ally as an angel or messenger (This is a common shared experience by many mushroom users)

This ally is wise, loving and also very funny sometimes. Communication with the ally is not by words but by thought, images or feelings – difficult to explain. Let me give you an example: For years I am trying to learn to play piano and sometimes I am so frustrated that I cry out to the Universe, or God: ‘Why didn’t you gave me the talent to play the piano, why make it so difficult for me?’ Once, in a trip, I was playing piano and meanwhile communicating with my ally. I expressed my frustration and asked why I was not given the talent to play good. The ally then ‘told’ me: you have been given the talent, the only problem is you. You don’t believe that you can already play the piano. It is you and your believes that are holding you back. You think that you cannot play and therefore you cannot play.
Once I asked a few questions about life and the ally gave me the answers by giving images a basketball players in different situations. I know this sounds weird, but somehow I could understand the meaning of these images. Now, if I ask the ally a question and don’t understand the answer immediately, the ally – as a kind of joke – troughs a basketball against my head like saying ‘hey, pay attention!’

Anyway, this last trip: my grandmother just died a few days before.
I was playing piano and was thinking about my grandmother. Suddenly my ally appeared and this time in the form of a warm light – I could almost touch it. Somehow I also felt that my grandmother was nearby. As if my ally was accompanying my grandmother.
I started to cry and strangely I began to play some sort of children’s melody or theme on the piano. It was very reassuring and calming (like a mother singing her children to sleep)
I felt the presence of my grandmother and ally very strong (never underestimate a mushroon ;-))
I asked my grandmother ‘Are you in Heaven?’ and she said ‘Yes and no, things are not what you think they are, Jeroen. I have begun a new life and I am very happy now. But I am also sad for your father and Loucky’ (my aunt). Then I asked ‘Does Heaven exists?’ and she said: ‘Yes, but Heaven is not what you think it is. Heaven is a place where all our beautiful and treasured memories are kept, Heaven is not a place where dead people are kept.’ Then I felt as if she started laughing: ‘Can you imagine how crowded it would be and how problematic? In what ‘state’ should God preserve all these people? Young or old? Sick or healthy? And don’t you think that it would be a waste of life? Heaven is not what you think it is, these are just words.’ And she continued: ‘When you die, you will go to Heaven, everybody does. There you will handover your most treasured memories to God and for a moment you will be among all the memories of your loved ones. You will see your own father, your mother, your friends…They will seem so real that you could not tell the difference. You will also relive your own most treasured memories, therefore, you should acquire as much beautiful memories in your live as possible’.

I know it was just a trip, but I felt happy and ‘light’ for days. I still feel it is a gently poetic idea: 'Heaven is a place where all treasured memories are kept'.
As a kind of disclaimer: I am aware of the fact the hallucinations are exactly what they are: hallucinations. A Zen teacher would say ‘be careful, those are powerful delusions of the mind’. Perhaps the Zen teacher is right, but then again…what about the Indians? Is their believe system lesser then that of Christians or Buddhists?

God, the Universe, the meaning of life, awareness, emptiness, life and death…so many questions.
If Darwin is right, if life is nothing more then coincidence, then why is it that a flower is perfectly adapted to the bees and other insects? How does a flower ‘know’ that, after a long period of evolutionary adjustments, the bee will be there? And how does the bee knows that there will be a flower?

I am curious to know if other people on DU have similar ‘religious like’ experiences with mushrooms. To be honest, it is sometimes hard to differentiate between fantasy and reality, between religion and faith, honesty and delusion.
Perhaps God is shaking his head 'Oh no, when will he learn?'
Sorry for the bad English.

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shain from kane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Mushrooms, No. Anchovies, Hell yes.n/t
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. I have never taken hallucigens
though my husband did at one time, and said he saw God. Your experience sounds similar to ones I have had, without help of any plant, sacred or otherwise. Your path is via the mushroom; mine via my spiritual practices. Both are valid.
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Jeroen Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. spiritual practices
Do you meditate?
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. Among other things
I also do zkr and recite wazif and pray.
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. I have never had any mushroom experiences, but it sure did sound
nice and I would like to think the heaven you experienced in your alter state was what it is...
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Jeroen Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. yes, thanks
I think you are right. It makes more sense to me now.
She just passed away and I was in a 'domain of memories', thinking about her.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. I took lots of hallucinogens in the 60s
but can't say I ever had anything approaching a religious experience, no sense of a divine presence, no nothing.

What I did understand is where all those elaborate carvings on cathedrals came from because the visual stuff was always quite intense, cabbage roses, grapevines, gargoyles and all.

I do remember feeling like I understood the inner workings of the universe, but when I attempted to read what I'd written about it after I'd sobered up, I found it was pure drivel and utterly nonsensical.

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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. And those stripey, layered
South American motifs. Tracers. Those dudes were tripping.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. Mushrooms were ok, LSD was better...
I frankly can't recall a "religions experience" on mushrooms,
but certainly on LSD, where i've definitely had revelatory moments
that have changed my entire life. Though in the many years since,
the states of mind that seemed so utterly profound and new then,
are still new today without the halucinogen... Carlos castaneda
is the fikkin' 60's... 40 years ago... the mystics have moved on from
1000 mics and hippie life.

www.gangaji.org - the profound without the drug. If it is real, this
religious experience, then it is beyond the drug... can you find it
without the ally. (Ps... not the same as an ally.) You misread the
CC books, IMO to say that. It is a power plant, not an ally.

You don't want to get involved with occult allys as an amateur,
better gettin' some education first... its not a joke that stuff, and it
will drive you insane if you abuse it, or disrespect the sacred.

(When you write a sacred experience online for a thousand people, you
kill its magic, you open up your sacred for what?.. don juan would call
that accessable, standing in the middle of the road instead of the side.

The message of those books, IMO, is not about drugs, as carlos clealry
moves on to discover meditation in the process, but about how to become
impeccable and to live a warrior's life.

Namaste,
-s
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Jeroen Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Thanks for your advise.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Interesting Viewpoint
I would say that I would agree

I had a friend who was a Mescalero Apache. He told me that he went to a ceremony once and the medicine man gave him peyote. He went to a hut to sit alone for a while. He got sick, then he started feeling the effects and he felt "high", he said at that moment the medicine man appeared out of nowhere and told him he was not here to get "high", he was here to pray. He said he started praying and he felt himself leave his body and fly high above.

That's all I remember from his tale, but it stuck with me the message that it was a spiritual tool, not a drug for getting high.

My mistakes in life with this type of substance were to use it for the purpose of getting high.

LSD, only once. Greatful Dead concert. Too much beer and hashish to remember much after a certain point. I sadly to say drove about 90 miles in this condition and remember seeing tracers coming off of tail lights, and it seems I remember passing people on the shoulder of the road.

It scares me to death to recall those bits and pieces of what started out as a fun time with friends.

It seemed that it took me several days to really feel like I'd "come down" from that one. Would see waves in the walls at times for a few days, and felt wrung out.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Oh, no! Dare I?
You don't want to get involved with occult allys as an amateur,
better gettin' some education first... its not a joke that stuff, and it
will drive you insane if you abuse it, or disrespect the sacred.

Hey, sacred thing! Over here, pal! Booga booga! :P :evilgrin: :hippie:

Yes, I always call on a professional, board-certified Occultist whenever I need to deal with an occult ally. I've seen an amateur try to handle 'em, and it wasn't a pretty sight -- karmic damage, chakras knocked way out of alignment, negative energy so thick you could cut it with a cermonial knife.

Of course, if you actually did "get some education first" you might not be swayed by any of this claptrap, and take your experience for what it is -- an unlocking of some of the interesting potential of the human mind, quite wonderful and amazing all by itself without reference to imagined gods or spirit realms.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Yes, some forces are not to be messed with
There are powerful non-physical beings out there, especially in the
high deserts, and they can have serious effects on peoples sanity,
and i think most poeple know better than to hang out in the high deserts.

You're just being typical, splooging doubt and derision on anything
you don't respect.

Education was referring specifically to sorcery-occultism, developing
occult powers, dreaming and getting what you want. The "education" is
what the carlos castaneda books tell rather well, how to be impeccable
so that lowlife forces & people do not injure you.

The human mind and spiritual awakening of course need no "learning", but
"power" is as disciplined as any Ph.D. study.

Respect for the unknown is not foolery, and you've already gotten many
years of bad education, so an "education" is undoing the disresepect and
the slovenly bad habits of western culture that Don juan elucidates in
the journey to ixtlan ++ books.

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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Not all study is worthwhile study
Education was referring specifically to sorcery-occultism... The human mind and spiritual awakening of course need no "learning", but "power" is as disciplined as any Ph.D. study.

I'm sure one could devote enormous amounts of time and energy to studying phrenology or learning to speak Klingon, but that doesn't mean that personality relates very well at all to patterns of bumps on your head, or that their are real Klingons out there roaming the galaxy for us to speak to.

You're just in way too deep to ever admit that you've spent so much of your own effort, and defined so much of your own self worth, around illusionary pursuits into so-called "wisdom".
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Personal again
You've got a rude habit, where you impose degenerate impressions on people.

The world of power is really like Ph.D. If you have the power to break 8 bricks
with your bare hands, it takes time and effort to develop. This involves often,
"study". That was my point, and i think it is wholly defensible for every
"power" of mind or body you can learn on this earth, from making big bucks as a
lawyer, winning golf tournaments, and raising successful children. So rather than discussing
that principal, you're seeing if you can offend.

Clearly you've learned a lot, but when you use that learning as a tool to degenerate
and reduce people, it is not learning, nor probitive wisdom, or truthful even.
Whatever spiritual truth you're representing to this discussion, that is root to it,
your intent, not to advance inquiry, but to debase religion and other persons, reframing
discussion as a personal matter to slag people off.

Silence speaks better than learning, but speaking silence is of little help to persons
who are exploring what the op mentions. People are seeking and curious about knowledge,
and even though all speaking is folly, why the heck not. :-)


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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Carlos was a huckster
He didn't move on or discover meditation, he retuned his confabulations to better fit the popularity of SoCal designer esoterica.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. He was an initiate
in the 1960's when a lot of information we have today was not
available regarding such things. He cut new ground in opening
up avenues to discuss and examine the ways of power.

I do agree that he got stuck in the worlds of power, but
isn't that the lesson of the books, to read of a spiritual
seeker who became wise and still, got stuck in the illusory
self. It doesn't make him a huckster, it makes him typical.
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G2099 Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. Where do you get the mushroom?
Do you go to Mexico to get them?
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Jeroen Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. No
I live in The Netherlands, they are available in shops here.
Legal as long as you don't dry them
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. You Don't Have To Dry Them To Use Them
I don't understand the legality of that at all.

Dried ones could be eaten, made tea out of, or even smoked.

Fresh ones you had to eat, but you got just as, or even more, of a buzz off them as I recall
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Just as weird as our own laws
Don't know if it's still the case, but it used to be that the fruit were illegal, but the spores weren't. Which is why you could buy mailorder growing kits.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Good Point
while you weren't going to get high from the spores, I wouldn't doubt if they were still for sale in High Times (if that mag still exists) or on the internet
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. They Grow In Horse Shit In The Pastures
where I'm from

or you can buy them on the street from someone who is "connected"

in college, I knew a guy who boarded up a room to make it look like a closet, and it had a trap door at the bottom of the closet and when you went in he room it had shelves all around it on every wall with mushrooms growing in them. Pretty wild. He did this for about a year, until I think he decided he had done his quota of them and quit growing them. He sold some, but I think he took most of them himself, or with friends.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. My Experiences With Mushrooms Left Me With Some Lasting
impressions:

a) there is evil, I felt and sensed it while on them
b) that sex is a driving force, if not the driving force in college age relationships
c) that this world is not what we think it is, there is a world of spirit that underlies it, and that spirit is not all "good" spirit (see #1)

Other than that time, I saw carpet wave at me, heard music that wasn't there, talked to trees (who seemed to understand me), saw my house glowing with the lights off (like phosphorescence) and ultimately (after about 30 or 40 times using it) scared the hell out of me because I realized that other things I was doing to myself (drinking mainly) were killing me.

so it is a mixed bag of experiences, that even 22 years later still has had a profound effect on me.

I'm not sure I would recommend it to anyone, but under the right circumstances it might be a good thing.

I think I abused the circumstances and was just looking for the high.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
20. thanks . . . n/t :-)
.
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
22. How is your piano playing these days? nt
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Jeroen Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. Piano playing
It is getting better everyday ;-)

1. I started serious practice a few months ago (chord progression, scales, theory)
2. Each night when I am in my bed, I tell myself again and again that I can play
Somehow this combination works, although it is difficult to say if (2) is effective ;-)



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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
28. Whoa
there was just a mushroom ad (grow your own) on the top of the page. Was that a coincidence or are the google ads reading our posts?
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