My wife believes in the Rapture and attends a Mars Hills mega Church.

[sarcasmo]

I have told here I will never be a Christian as I have no Religion and will never be a follower. The every Sunday episode of do you want to go to Church came and went again this morning. She is at Church as I type this, I usually drive my cab on Sundays to avoid the question.
How do you handle a situation like this. The only problem we have had in our five year relationship is that I feel organized Religion is Hypocritical and often filled with Hate and cherry picks lines written in a Book that has been rewrote thousands of times. I fear that it is causing a wedge, where their need not be a wedge if Religion didn't rule by fear.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. I think your wife would never invite me over.

I am convinced that religion is a disease process, one that corrodes the brains of otherwise sane people.

[msongs]

2. you are the husband. she is SUPPOSED to do what you tell her

according to commonly held biblical beliefs in megafundy churches.

then again, your wife may be into the status thing of going to this church in the aspects of social climbing. how much money does this church fleece her for each month? most of these churches are way into cash and more cash, and again, status, and don't forget the cash.
and also money and bucks and if you don't have cash, checks or credit would be ok.

isn't greed a sin anymore?

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Freedom_from_Chains]

3. Take her to a Buddhist center. n/t

[soothsayer]

4. Did she have a big disappointment in her life? Is she missing dad?

What's driving her to that, I wonder?

[JDPriestly]

5. Tell her you will look for a good divorce lawyer.

if she doesn't respect your right to believe or not believe what you believe or don't believe. She is trying to control you. And it will get worse if you start going to that church. As it is, you've got irreconcilable differences, and you are headed to divorce court. Don't give in on your beliefs because if you do, you too will come under the control of the religious right-wing and its superstitious nonsense.

Do I believe in God myself. Yes. Do I believe in pushing other people to agree with me. No. God can "speak" or not "speak" for "himself." Assuming God exists, God is all powerful and can take care of himself. If God is all powerful and wants to push people around, God will. It's not up to your wife, her preacher or me. There is no need for your wife to push you around in God's name. If God wants to push you around, God will. Explain that to your wife. Maybe that will help.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Have similar problem here. Husband is a conservative evangelical

but we do devotions at night. Yes they are conservative Christian but they ask questions at the end of each reading and I answer them honestly. He is confounded by some of what I believe, but he can't help but see that I am sincere in my own beliefs and that in many cases we are not all that different. I think that as long as he trusts that I am OK in the sight of God he has nothing to worry about. It's when he wound up about me going to Hell or causing the kids or him to go that there are problems. But he is slowly working through that.

[rzemanfl]

9. Why would you put up with this? n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. Because I love him. I also put up with his love of football and basketball and he

tolerates my adoration for competitive cheerleading.

We're not carbon copies of each other. Some of our differences can be annoying, but we still _love_ each other. That's why we put up with it. :^D

[TallahasseeGrannie]

21. Sounds like they are working through

it and compromising to me, which is what a good marriage is all about. If devotion time allowed no dissent or personal opinion, that would be different.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

24. Good question.

Not to knock GPV, but I am always astounded that liberals can put up with any conservative crap from ANYBODY, especially their own family.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

25. Well, when you take a vow

in a marriage you have to "put up" with a whole lot if you want to keep the thing running smoothly. Both parties do.

Which is why, I guess, marriage just isn't for everybody!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

26. Of course it isn't.

And of course marriage is about "putting up" with stuff. What I'm saying is that I personally cannot see myself marrying someone whose basic ideology is so different from mine. Certainly t can be done, but I wouldn't want to bother.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

28. You'd think so, wouldn't you?

But I actually can think of a number of guys who might have tempted me. They say when we choose a mate it's all about breeding, anyway. I don't go that far, however. But I like to read about that kind of anthropological studies, what makes us "choose" one person over another.

Come to think of it, when I was back there in the choosing years, I didn't give much thought to ideology. For me, that came later.

[pooja]

7. Well, I am a Christian... not the rapture believing, bible thumping

type.. but the type who realizes that a prophecy of the future doesn't necesarily have to come to pass....

Jesus said fear not... Why because fear is the antonym of love. Fear leads to hate. Fear leads to wars. Fear leads to the Rapture. Jesus gave us a warning... now its time to realize how to walk in love and light that he taught... and there doesn't have to be that future...

And that starts with a good ole' clean out on Nov 07th

[rzemanfl]

8. A divorce lawyer might be able to do something with her desire

to be naked among many other men. Honestly, I cannot see how you can live with her.

[noamnety]

10. My husband's at church right now

For years I took part in the church orchestra, because I enjoyed it, and it was part of accepting his culture, though I don't share his beliefs (at all - I was raised an atheist, so it's just completely not in me).

But then the pastor said something so offensive a couple years ago that I would have walked out - but couldn't, because I had a kind of key part in the orchestra that day. But I made it very clear that I was never going back after that day. And I haven't.

One of the things I learned in teacher training is that if you allow a student to get away with something very occasionally, they are a thousand more times likely to keep pushing for the same privilege again and again and again. It needs to be clear that exceptions can NEVER happen.

I think what I'm saying is you might have an easier time if you confront this head-on if you're having the same battle every Sunday. Something like "no, I'm not going to church with you because that church preaches "_______________." If that's part of your belief that's fine, I can't tell you what to believe - and I respect the fact that those beliefs are part of who you are, but I will never go to that church because it would compromise my own morals."

Maybe a little less Oprah-sounding, but I wouldn't allow the argument to be based on whether you're going to church THIS PARTICULAR Sunday. And I wouldn't allow the focus to shift to arguing each other out of their belief system - that's not going to happen, and you both need to come to terms with that, and accept it. The issue is whether you each respect the others' right to have your own moral code and live by it, or whether you think marriage means one person has the right to try to force a change on the other person.

[mike_c]

11. sorry, I so utterly cannot relate to this problem....

I cannot imagine ever getting involved with someone who's core beliefs are so antithetical to mine. I'm afraid my response to your situation would involve a moving van. No offense to your wife-- I'm sure she's a fine person, it's just that I cannot see anything that would motivate me to become involved with such a person.

[Syncronaut Seven]

14. Wife and I get along just fine

After 20 years now. She prays for me quietly. :)

I believe It is my ability to distinguish between religion and spirituality that makes the difference.

Does your wife get special social bonus points by presenting you for display?

If she doesn't respect your views on the subject, perhaps you do have a problem.

[pinkpops]

12. Take solace in the fact that you will/will not, at the end of your days

join her in heaven?

[Xeric]

13. Be not unevenly yoked n/t

[mntleo2]

15. Church Is Known To Be Hypocritical

...Mahatma Gandhi was inspired to begin his nonviolent movement by the Sermon On The Mount. He was far more of a Christian than Mars Hill church leaders are ~ and he was a Hindu. He was a far better Christian than the leaders of the Mars Hill are because he LIVED what that sermon taught. He took a vow of poverty, worked against a system thousands of years old working toward freeing the untouchables, he advocated for the poor, and created a world movement of peace that some of the greatest Christians such as MLK took up as well.

Jesus said more than once that being wealthy is no way to get to heaven, indeed it is a stumbling block. "It is harder for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle." Some "Mars Hill" and other evangelists try to justify that the rich are not sinning by being greedy as there was supposedly a small gate into Jerusalem called "The Eye Of The Needle" which would require a camel to get on its knees if they wanted to enter. In other words they are rationalizing that if you are rich but "stay on your knees" you will be fine. They think it is fine to be allowing greed while condemning homosexuality, for instance. Jesus said NOTHING, NADA, ZERO about homosexuality, but said plenty about how bad it is to be rich because wanting more than you need is what foments wars, creates poverty, and causes starvation and disease.

The Mars Hill church leaders are known for their greed, which they openly practice. They fly in private jets, support leaders that tout forced labor in children and adults as well as forced prostitution, and forced abortion ~. they have no problem forcing women to have babies but then taking away any support system to raise these children, and worse these leaders profit from these stances.

Being a Christian first means taking a vow of poverty, and is she seeing this in her church leaders? No! Jesus said as well to "love your neighbor" and is preaching hate toward anyone outside of their faith against this (such as with Islam)? Yes!

As an athiest, I support you. I am a Christian, but atheism is just as valid in my book. However I might as an atheist offer to go to church with her if she could find a church with a minister who actually LIVES the words of Jesus instead of just mouthing them as the church she attends does and it is well documented mega-church leaders do this. I would tell her, if she wanted you to go to church with her, you would have to go to a church that accepts you as you believe and at least practices what it preaches, as hypocrisy is not something I would want to support, whether or not I believed as they do. If she loves this church so much perhaps she will leave you alone because it means she would have a choice ~ having her husband attend with her sometimes or staying where she is. If she is sincerely wanting to pursue the real life of a Christian and see leaders who live it, then perhaps she will find a place for both of you where there are a wonderful group of potential friends as well.

One suggestion of a church living their faith are the Quakers (I am not one, but I know they try hard to practice what they preach). I will tell you what I know about, though I am not tsuggesting this is a good church for you: I am a UCC (United Church Of Christ) member and my minster is marching and speaking against the war as we also stood up against the sanctions against Iraq in the 1990's and participated in the Sanctuary Movement in the 1980s (as did the Quakers). We have one verified atheist member in our church who goes because she says we try to live our faith. All people are welcome in our church and your wife would find ministers as well as their parishioners as earthy people many who are highly intellectual (UCC churches attract highly educated people for some reason). My friend and former partner is also an atheist and he goes to my church (he was also the son of two ministers) because he says it has people trying at least to live their words. These churches are small because actually living what you believe is much harder than spending your time condemning others for what they believe and trying to convert them to a narrow way of thinking.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[struggle4progress]

17. Are the Mars Hill churches in Washington and Michigan connected?

[mntleo2]

23. I Don't Know But ...

...we have mega churches here and the Apostolic church, whose leaders along with Haggard talk weekly to the Grover Nordquist crowd and the president, so I suspect they are connected.

Cat In Seattle

[struggle4progress]

16. There are plenty of successful marriages between people whose

religious notions are not coincident. Since I don't know either of you, you should take all of my remarks below as guesses and suggestions from a completely uninformed stranger.

But perhaps your "situation" arises in part because neither of you knows how to handle the interpersonal dynamics associated with this particular difference? Instead of talking about religion itself, why don't you both set aside some regular time to talk about other important issues that contribute to this "situation"? In the beginning, at least, don't talk about "religion" at all in those conversations but try to handle all the other issues associated (say) with Sunday mornings. For example, how do you two handle activities that one of you enjoys and the other doesn't? Do you both negotiate or do you go your separate ways? How do you both talk about your values, find your common values, and deal with disagreements about values? And can you both keep loaded "buzz words" out of your conversations?

[Evoman]

18. What else can you do but compromise?

As long as she isn't making ultimatums, just do what you usually do. Its really not fair for you (or her) to change your agreements from when you were first married..if it didn't bother you enough when you first married her to call it quits, it isn't fair to her to try to change her. If she converted after you were married, or she hid this part of her life from you, then you have a reason to be upset.

I, too, and living with a christian....luckily, shes just BARELY Christian. But I knew what I was getting into, and I haven't tried to change her at all (which is funny, because I think I have unwittingly...by exposing her to atheist books and arguements).

There's three main things I see as reasons to leave, in a case like yours

1)You know longer respect her intelligence or her opinions. In this case, leaving her may be good for her.

2)Sex is negatively affected by religion to a degree to which your needs are not being met.

3)Her church becomes more important than your family.

Other than that...if you love her, compromise. Let her ask you to go to church..whats the big deal? Just say no, and thats it. Don't argue or get pissy. Just "No, thanks" will do.

[Realityhack]

27. Well composed post.

Evoman has a rather fair approach.

I might add that if the question 'would you like to come to church?' is starting to feel like a preasure tactic you might just sit down with your wife and explain that you know that she loves you and would be glad to have you come to church with her, that you know there is an open invitation to attend but you would prefer that she respect your decision not to, and that you will let her know if you change your mind. You might point out that you are more than willing to not ask her to stay home or study Dawkins etc. and you are asking for that to go both ways.

Of course if its just a polite question... just politely decline.

[neebob]

19. I would tell you what I told this guy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=87694#87722

Why should you have to go out of your way to avoid "the every Sunday episode of do you want to go to church"? You seem to want to blame religion instead of the person who creates the episodes.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

22. If this is the only problem you have had in five

years, then you have a good, solid marriage.

A number of folks say they would get a lawyer, leave her, etc., and I guess that is why the divorce rates are over 50% today. I know all sorts of folks in mis-matched marriages...atheists with Jews, Xtians with Muslims, Pagan with Xtian...whatever. They work through it because it doesn't define them.

But (and this is my opinion..you have to follow your own heart) I don't think that forcing a partner to attend a religious service they don't buy into is productive or even fair. Can you just say no? Gently say no, you aren't going. You understand it is important to her but you wouldn't want to tarnish an experience that is so important to her by tagging along just to make her happy. Maybe you could meet her after the service and go out for brunch?

But you know, driving that cab on Sunday is probably your best out!