"Our Mother Who Art in Heaven" (re: Harris Poll)

[bloom]

"More than a third of respondents think of God as male, while only 1% think of God as female. Most of that 1% is coming from women: 2% of women think of God as female while less than one-half of one-percent of men do."

See:

http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=461


And/or:

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=707



9% think of God as "Like a human being with a face, body, arms, legs, eyes, etc."

41% think of God as "A spirit or power that can take on human form but is not inherently human"

27 % think of God as "A spirit or power that does not take on human form"

8% think of God as "Other"

15% (up from 10% in '03) "Do not believe in God/Not sure"



Also - "While Most U.S. Adults Believe in God, Only 58 Percent are "Absolutely Certain"

[hsher]

1. I'm with the 8%

That's my vote. This would make a good poll.

[bloom]

4. Ok - I made a poll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x97310


(It's sort of complicated because I decided to combine the two questions...)

[neebob]

2. Wow

The man-god concept that I grew up with (the 9%) is much less prevalent than I thought. That explains some things.

Weird, too, that so many of the 68% percent who think of God as a spirit or power think of it as male.

I had a male colleague tell me recetly that he thought God was a woman - in a joking way and I doubt he believes in God at all, but I also wondered if he was serious because he's one of the most truly woman-friendly men I've ever met.

[azurnoir]

3. Always thought

God was a hermaphrodite myself

[Odin2005]

5. I was taught in my confirmation classes that God didn't have a gender.

I was taught that using male pronouns is simply the result of how the English language works. Of course I'm an atheist now so the whole argument in moot.

[bloom]

6. These things that people take from granted

about how the English language works - are also the things that are patriarchal (and inherently Sexist) in nature.

Just because because people accept these things and that they have been a part of our culture for a long time - does not mean that they are not sexist.

The whole thing of assuming the male POV about things is all sexist.


So there is the term God being used for Male Gods AND for Neutral (or ANY) Gods. It's sexist. So the Female version is only the Female version and does not mean any God - so you would have to say Gods AND Goddesses if you want to let people know that you mean Female Gods in addition to Male Gods - otherwise the assumption goes to the default of male Gods. If Goddesses meant Goddesses and God meant (male) Gods - and there was a different term for Gods that could be either - it would be better. The term Man is like this, as well.

That would not be the case in all cultures - it is largely driven by language - and the understanding of that language. It is also why the PC wars are important. Language is an important component of perception and understanding. The people who deny that betray a lack of understanding about basic understanding in general.

[Odin2005]

7. Oh, bullcrap.

As far as I know the theory that the structure of a language has anything to do with culture has been refuted.

[bloom]

8. As far as you know, huh?

Well - if culture doesn't shape a language - then what the hell does?

[Odin2005]

9. With regard to the structure of a language change it is mostly random.

I have noticed no culturally based pattern in gendered pronouns.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. Actually, the idea of God as masculine comes from Hebrew,

which has only a masculine and feminine gender, like French or Spanish, no neuter gender. In other words, there is no "it"--everything has to be "he" or "she." In fact, Hebrew even differentiates between "male-you" and "female-you."

Not surprisingly, the ancient Israelite went with "he" when it came to referring to their God.

So in that sense, the language did have some influence. It forced the ancient Israelites to make a choice between a masculine and a feminine god. Also, the Hebrew concept of God changed quite a bit over the centuries, so that in the Bible, you can trace the evolution of their thinking from the earliest preserved oral traditions in Genesis to the post-exilic writings in the latter parts of the Old Testament and the Apocrypha.

[JerseygirlCT]

10. I completely agree with you. Language matters. A great deal.

How we talk about something totally impacts how we *think* about something. And how we see God effects how we see each other. IOW, if we're trained to think of God as male, we think of women as inherently less than.

[Evoman]

11. I think god is a hispanic male with a shaved head, like me.

And anybody who says otherwise is a racist.

[bloom]

12. I think it makes sense

that if people have an image of God/dess that it look like themselves. I wouldn't suggest otherwise.


I take issue with society as a whole pushing the God is a (white) man idea when 51% of the people are not men (and a good portion are not white).

Some, of course, don't have an image - but as we can see from the Harris poll over a third of the people think of a man while 1% (2% of women) think of a women. It's probably a positive sign that 2% of the women do. That is not by accident but by people raising the issue.

And like I've said other times - it's not like not having an image of God means that you are not affected by other's people's image of God. It's part of the culture. Even if I don't have an image - I like knowing that more people are able to see a Goddess instead of a God - as the symbol of divinity.

[ozone_man]

13. Only 58 Percent are "Absolutely Certain"

That's a pretty amazing percentage of gnostic or strong theists. Kind of scary actually.

[bloom]

14. On the bright side...

it's going down. It was 66% in '03.

[ozone_man]

15. That's a healthy trend.

I much prefer that people explore their "spiritual" needs more on their own and less through organized religion, finding their own way. What's left after examination under the light of reason is probably well worth keeping.

[Random_Australian]

16. My concept of God is feminine.

And because I'm a teenage guy, she's also pretty hot too.
:)

But it's not really about my spiritual feelings - I just use feminine Gods to analyse my own views of women. :)

Part of my identity and worldview is to strive to keep treating everyone fairly, you see - so I just use something that I know nothing about (except she's a woman) to find out exactly what I associate with womanhood, to prevent myself from believing those dumb stereotypes about looks and behaviour, and to modify what I think is hot.

[mc jazz]

18. Old Catholic saying

If Jesus won't let you in through the front door, Mary will let you in at the back

[bloom]

20. "believing those dumb stereotypes"

That's interesting.

I think that is the point - the main point - of having an image of God/dess. To have an ideal image that is worth having.

Society at large encourages some pretty stupid images/stereotypes/idealized versions of what is considered to be a "good" person. (Also - a lot of those "dumb stereotypes about looks" are photoshopped, anyway).

I think it's really offensive when religions suggest that an image of a male God is important (or can be the ONLY thing - as if monotheism is so superb) - but an image of a female Goddess is verboten.

I think people ought to have whatever sort of image(s) they want to have - and if it takes 2 or 3 o 10 or 50 images to cover what a person wants idealized - then fine.

[and-justice-for-all]

17. "Absolutely certain" without evidence or proof....sad.

Faith isnt proof. sorry.

[beam me up scottie]

21. "The religious superstitions of women perpetuate their bondage...

more than all other adverse influences."

"When women understand that governments and religions are human inventions; that bibles, prayer-books, catechisms, and encyclical letters are all emanations from the brain of man, they will no longer be oppressed by the injunctions that come to them with the divine authority of "thus saith the Lord."


~ Elizabeth Cady Stanton