How do my fellow atheists handle Thanksgiving?

[cosmik debris]

With no Deity to praise or show gratitude to, how do atheists view Thanksgiving?

I used to see it as the annual feast of football, but I have lost interest in commercial sports, and weight and cholesterol have limited my ability to gorge myself. So this year I tried something a little different. I gave my turkey dinner to the local food bank and I will be eating red beans and rice (a low fat Cajun favorite) for lunch.

What about my fellow atheists? How will you deal with giving thanks? And what's on the menu?

[peacebird]

1. this year I'm giving thanks to the universe for the midterm election results

and dining on steamed asparagus, baked sweet potato, sauteed squash, and southern style greens!

[ERF]

7. You can thank yourself that you have discovered that life

has no meaning.

[peacebird]

84. wow... a bit harsh, eh? actually I have no problem with atheists, my beloved brother is one

and frankly I *know* for a fact that he doesn't believe that "life has no meaning" - me, I follow the seasons and the patterns of life, the sun and the moon - tho I do not subscribe to any formal religion.

I DO think that most of mans problems are caused by religious fanatics whether they be christian, muslim or jew.

[ERF]

9. That was supposed to be for the poster above. Sorry. n/t

[cosmik debris]

18. I got it

And thank you.

[irislake]

70. Damn!

Don't go on about the food. It's not Thansgiving in Canada and I live alone in the woods but I am feeling tempted to drive 24 miles to the nearest village to buy me a turkey! Stove top stuffing,with apple and celery and onion added. Cranberry jelly. Brussel sprouts. Sweet potaters. To share with my two little begles. I am very tempted, folks.

[jonnyblitz]

2. I turn down all invitations to family or friend gatherings and enjoy

a nice quiet day to myself and eat whatever is in the house and I am quite content with this. :D

[Hepburn]

3. God is not the only thing associated with giving thanks

Just a few things I can think of: I am thankful from having the greatest friends and family a person can imagine, for having found the DU a few years ago which helped me to keep my sanity, and I am thankful that Karma came up and bit that bastard Bush squarely on his cowardly, evil ass.

Whether there is a God or not ~~ I sure as hell am thankful as hell for a lot of things!

[cosmik debris]

8. To whom are you thankful?

Who gets the credit for all your stuff?

[Hepburn]

81. To those who are in my life....

...and have made it a better place to be.

[Trajan]

4. Why would an Atheist NOT be thankful ? ....

What of Fate ? ... Luck ? ... Kismet ?

Oh ... I am VERY thankful .... You dont need to praise a god to be thankful ....

I will be Hamming it up this year .....

[MercutioATC]

38. Exactly. I don't need a deity to feel thankful for the good things in my life.

[yellerpup]

5. I cook like a dervish and prepare delightful foods,

Dress myself nicely, play with the children, laugh at all jokes, don't rise to the bait when someone wants to start an argument, and compliment everyone else's cooking. I don't bow my head or pray even when I am a guest, but I keep my mouth shut while everyone else does. I never include "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, but I always go prepared to name what I am most thankful for.

[Mr_Geodesic]

6. Thank who?

I've got some frozen turkey dinners and a pecan pie that I think will fool homeland security.

My friends, family, and I know we love each other so we don't need this crap.

Life goes on, but I guess periodic distractions keep the rubes happy.

(First post (Hey, Welcome to DU. Thanks. Good to be here.))

[cosmik debris]

15. And welcome to the arena

That is the name often given to this forum because it resembles gladiators in an arena I think.

Is that pecan pie liquid or gel? Can you get it past TSA and on to an airplane?

[Mr_Geodesic]

40. More like a slap fight.

As to the pie: self-assembling nano structure according to Trader Joe. Don't know how TSA feels about such.

[Zhade]

85. Welcome to DU - do you live in a dome?

:)

That sounds like one advanced pie, I must get one when I hit TJ's tomorrow!

[Karmageddon]

10. What does being (or not being) an athiest have to do with Thanksgiving?

I'm pretty sure the native Americans that shared the first Thanksgiving with the Pilgrims weren't christians, but that didn't make them, or the Pilgrims any less thankful for the gifts of bounty that the earth had provided.

I'll be smoking a turkey (since the kitchen is in full-blown "remodel" mode and we don't have an oven) and enjoying a quiet day alone with my wonderful wife.

[cosmik debris]

17. The question is...

Who do you thank?

[irislake]

78. Just thank your luck stars

that you're not being blown to rat-shit in Iraq or Afgahnistan or some other part of the globe and you can thank your pretzeldent and his Neocon friends and the MSM for the fact that you are "safe" in America cuz the troops are out fighting the terrorists "over there". (Let's just hope Bush doesn't fly over and give them a plastic turkey this year!)

[irislake]

80. Who you thank also depends on

how you celebrate Thanksgiving. When I was in my 30s my then spouse and I went up to our cottage in Temogami (Northern Ontario) with two other couples. The grandparents took our children and that left us free to get roaring drunk and smoke pot the entire week-end. There was lots of rum in the pumpkin pie plus maple syrup poured over it. Whipped cream.I don't remember much about the food or the entire week-end. Nobody said "grace" at the table -- if we even made it to the table. I don't recall. Well there's a photo of us at the table and the turkey all cooked so I guess we got to the table. My husband had never smoked pot before and was very worried about being caught by "the Mounties". (Why he worried is beyond me since the Mounties at the time were busy burning incense in the house of our Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau to cover up the smell of his wife Maggie smoking pot.)My husband was kind of paranoid and spent a lot of time running around the island looking up at the sky for Mounties in helecopters. I guess the pot made him get more than the munchies. I know he was very thankful that we didn't get caught by the Mounties and that none of the neighbours on nearby islands ever knew what he got up to that Thanksgiving. We specifically went to the island because he was too chicken to smoke pot in Toronto. My husband was a surgeon and when the neurologist at our hospital had a big pot party for the entire surgical staff and their wives he was afraid to attend. They arranged to blow up a picture of him to life size so that he would appear in all the party pictures but he never got to experience the thrill of smoking pot till that Thanksgiving on our island up north. He was thankful, as I say, for the experience and for not getting caught. There is always something to be thankful for if you really think about it.

[irislake]

83. Looking back

I regret we didn't invite the natives from the nearby Indian reserve on Bear Island to come and celebrate with us. That would have made it perfect!

[Zhade]

87. Now THAT'S how to "give thanks"!

What a wonderful experience!

[Zhade]

86. Smoking a turkey? I tried that once.

Couldn't find Zig-Zags big enough...

[neoblues]

11. I always thought of Thanksgiving as being...

a holiday for giving thanks for family, for country and culture (even the false image of settlers making peace/sharing the indian/native Americans). While some of those childhood illusions have been shredded, I've never found a reason or need to involve any deities.

Considering it as simply a "Fall Feast" is entirely sufficient.

[ktlyon]

12. not a religious holiday

respect everyone's beliefs

thanks for everything

Peace and love

[splat]

16. Yes, it's a secular holiday, don't make it a religious one

Families gather and mark off the years, eat well, discuss their plans. That's all it is. I thank my family, because without them I wouldn't have a family!

[jpwhite]

19. exactly

That was well put. I like to read Neale Donald Walsch's books. He is most famous for his series of books called "Conversations with God". In it, it explains that people don't have to believe in God. If you believe in life, that is good enough. The creative force that lives in everything is what I call "God", but you don't have to call it God in order to be thankful.

If you are thankful for what you have then the universe will see that and you will be blessed with more. If you are always "wanting", then you will be stuck in a phase and state of "wanting". That is never feeling satisfied with what you have.


This year I will be thankful for my family, for my friends who are open minded, and for the change that is already taking place in the world.

James
[e-mail]

[cosmik debris]

24. Here is a quote from Lincoln's Thanksgiving proclamation

"I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens."

This was the first time Thanksgiving became a national holiday and it was clearly religious not secular. Perhaps you view it as changed over the years, but its origins are purely religious.

[jonnyblitz]

25. it sure seems like one to me. it's one of the few times that

my family would bow their head and say grace to thank god at a meal. the other time for grace is the xmas meal. :shrug:

[Retired AF Dem]

13. I learned something new today

on edit
I learned another new thing today
"When they first left England, the Pilgrims went to Holland, the most tolerant society the world had seen up to that time. The Pilgrims had all the religious freedom there they could stand. In fact, they had too much, and were aghast that their children were taking advantage of the freedoms Holland offered. So, they packed up and came to America, not to get religious freedom, but to get away from it."

http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/columnists/franklinharris/061123.shtml

[jonnyblitz]

22. interesting article. I have heard that same thing elsewhere,

that the pilgrims came to america NOT for religious freedom but to get away from it.

[Warren Stupidity]

26. Yes that sort of gets glossed over in the standard text.

The pilgrims were not a tolerant group of people. Oh, and for another shock, one should visit the museum in provincetown where you will see a wonderful mural depicting how the pilgrims were blessed to discover stocks of food carefully put away by the locals that they promptly stole from the rightful owners and used to survive the winter. I'm thinking a whole lot of wampanoags went a bit hungry that winter. So basically we new englanders descended from a bunch of intolerant thieves. Luckily I'm descended from late arrivers who weren't given the chance to pillage the locals.

[lapfog_1]

31. You should see the history channel special on this.

The wampanoags didn't go hungry... because they were already dead. As for the Native Americans that came to celebrate the pilgrims feast, they were the rival tribe to the Wampanoags and were happy to see them vanquished, though they themselves were getting sick and dying as a result of exposure to the europeans... not to mention that many of the pilgrims were dying too.

[Vorta]

36. And we know this only because the colonists recorded it.

Now given that they were a devout people, if we believe that they took the food because they wrote that they did, it is also reasonable to believe that they intended to pay for it, as they said that they would. As for the food buried with the dead I don't think that many starving people would consider food buried with the dead to be its best use. If we are going to attach modern sensibilities to such things, then let's be consistent. Burying food with dead people is wasteful.

Another point to consider in the matter of survival is the moment. You have a right to kill a person for your own survival, at least according to our culture. If you and I are lost at sea and we only have one life jacket, you can take it from me if you are able, I will drown and you are guilty of no crime. Now if you put the hole in the boat deliberately to force this situation then that is another matter. Neither the Virginian or Massachusetts colonists moved to these territories for the purpose of killing the Indians, or even robbing them. This puts them head and shoulders above the Spanish on a moral plane as well as a business plan. This partly explains why Mexico and the US turned out so differently.

[Warren Stupidity]

41. Whatever. Not exactly how the event is taught.

They kind of glossed over the stealing and murdering part.

At any rate thanksgiving is our harvest festival and is only indirectly related to murderous thieving pilgrims. They brought the celebration to the plymouth colony with them from england.

[Frustratedlady]

14. Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday, in my book.

I'm not an atheist, but I would like to point out that giving thanks is not an exercise for Christians only. Thanksgiving Day has no reference in the Bible. I've never figured out why people think of it as a religious holiday, but a day to set aside to celebrate a bountiful harvest with good friends and family members. Kind of like a 4th of July in late Fall. Am I wrong?

[cosmik debris]

29. Please see post 27 n/t

[no_hypocrisy]

20. Thank everyone who contributed to the day.

Those who brought food, those who prepared the food, those who served the food, those who cleaned up, etc. They deserve recognition, appreciation, and thanks. Keep it in the room so to speak.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. Never thought of it as a religious holiday.

Not that I have a problem with christmas or easter or other major holidays. Who do I give thanks to? Friends and family and the fact that we are all still here (those of us who are all still here) to celebrate. This year I will be thanking the citizens of our republic who voted against theofascism in such large numbers that the liars and cheaters could not steal another election. No dieties are required.

[Dr.Phool]

23. I'm starting the day of praising dogs

I'll take them over to the dog park, and let them play with the other dogs, off-leash. Then we'll all have a nice dinner (No turkey for dogs-it's toxic to them. My vet says the day after thanksgiving is their busiest day of the year) drink to excess, while a football game plays in the background.

Then spend the next month at the gym working it off!

[irislake]

76. Is this true?

I didn't know any meat was poison for dogs! Are you sure it's not the potatoes? I heard potatoes were bad for them. Chocolate too. Well that's a shocker.

[Karmageddon]

92. Turkey toxic to dogs? All of mine have apparently been immune to this toxicity all these years

It's long been a holiday tradition at my house (Thanksgiving, xmas, new years, any time we make a feast, basically) that the dogs and cats each get a plate. Turkey, stuffing, green bean casserole, the works. They pig out and have a great time, and none of them has ever gotten sick, or even the runs. Must be something else the vet is talking about, because it ain't the turkey that's toxic. Maybe some people toss the dog a drumstick and they choke on the bones.

[cosmik debris]

27. The complete Lincoln Proclamation

The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God. In the midst of a civil war of unequalled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign States to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theatre of military conflict; while that theatre has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union. Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defence, have not arrested the plough, the shuttle, or the ship; the axe had enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battle-field; and the country, rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom.

No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and voice by the whole American People. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to his tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquillity and Union.

Abraham Lincoln

This is the proclamation that made Thanksgiving a national holiday. It seems clear to me that Mr. Lincoln intended it to have a strong and distinctly religious component. I don't understand how anyone could say that it is not a religious holiday.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. Lincoln did not invent thanksgiving.

It is the traditional harvest festival feast, celebrated by all cultures in various forms. If you choose to view this as a religious holiday, go for it, however exactly which religious holiday is it and which religion?

[cosmik debris]

35. Lincoln made it a national holiday

To give thanks and praise to his God. See post #27. What more can I say that Lincoln didn't already say.

[Warren Stupidity]

39. I give up. Happy thanksgiving. nt.

I refuse to cast asparagus on your beliefs.

[Trajan]

43. Lincoln isnt god ....

Your insistence on Thanksgiving being a 'religious' holiday says more about you than about what the day actually means ....

I am atheist: I am thankful for many things, including the end of a great harvest season, and a wonderful year that saw my children grow into more thoughtful and decent human beings ....

The enjoyment of the harvest feast is as old as agriculture; yet YOU want to insist it is all about Lincoln and god ? ...

What is your problem ? ....

[cosmik debris]

44. Lincoln set aside this day to give praise and thanks to God

You are welcome to see it otherwise.

[Trajan]

48. So what ? ....

It was celebrated BEFORE Lincoln, and BEFORE europeans ever set foot on american soil ....

It is a HARVEST TRADITION ..... your demand that it is a 'christian holiday' is nonsense ....

[cosmik debris]

50. It was not a National Holiday prior to 1863

It was more like St. Patrick's Day or St. Valentine's Day. Lincoln changed the character of the day by declaring it a NATIONAL HOLIDAY to give praise and thanks to god. The NATIONAL HOLIDAY is the reason Federal buildings are closed and people get a day off. (unlike St Patrick's Day)

You are welcome to ignore this if you wish, but please don't take offense at history. It doesn't care and neither do I.

[Trajan]

53. You say NOTHING about a 'National Holiday' or Lincoln in your original post

You were told that Thanksgiving is merely a harvest feast, which it is ... and that such celebrations are as old as the hills ....

Yet you have completely ignored these rational explanations, given by many other DUers, and insisted that your own narrow view represents the only reality ....

When you eat those beans, remember to give thanks to Jesus and Abe ... ok ? ....

[cosmik debris]

54. I'm sorry I thought you knew the history of Thanksgiving

[Warren Stupidity]

61. Do you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_festival

Which religion again?

[cosmik debris]

62. I don't know or care which religion.

When people start talking about praying and giving thanks to God, I check out. I don't play those games. But it seems to me, that since most presidents who have proclaimed the National Holiday were Christian, they probably meant the Christian God.

It just seems very unlikely to me that they would call for a day to praise and give thanks to god and NOT mean it to be religious.

[Warren Stupidity]

67. Why do you care what they meant?

It is an ancient agricultural festival. What some dead president said or did does not alter the celebration, unless you choose to allow it to. The harvest festival existed before presidents or puritans or christians. Proclamations do not alter that simple fact.

[cosmik debris]

68. There is more to history than just origins

You may not have noticed, but things change over time. Only about 5% of Americans participate in the agricultural economy and I am not one of them. A much larger percent participates in religion, but I'm not one of them either. But thanks to those two groups, we have a day proclaimed by (live) Presidential decree set aside for praise and thanking God.

This thread started by my asking how my fellow atheists dealt with that. It was you who insisted that praise and thanks to God was not religious (or that thanksgiving hasn't evolved from its origin). You have failed to support that point. And you have failed to present any evidence that the modern thanksgiving that we celebrate today is non-religious. If you don't wish to support those points, you may continue your tirade by yourself.

Thank YOU.

[cosmik debris]

55. If you don't like Lincoln, try this one

"On this Thanksgiving Day, we thank God for His blessings and ask Him to continue to guide and watch over our Nation.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim Thursday, November 25, 2004, as a National Day of Thanksgiving. I encourage all Americans to gather together in their homes and places of worship to reinforce the ties of family and community and to express gratitude for the many blessings we enjoy."

[cosmik debris]

56. Or the first Thanksgiving proclamation

"The Council has thought meet to appoint and set apart the 29th day of this instant June, as a day of Solemn Thanksgiving and praise to God for such his Goodness and Favour..."

[cosmik debris]

58. Or maybe George Washington would have more influence

"On 25 September 1789, Elias Boudinot of Burlington, New Jersey, introduced in the United States House of Representatives a resolution "That a joint committee of both Houses be directed to wait upon the President of the United States, to request that he would recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the many signal favors of Almighty God, ..."

"Citing biblical precedents and resolutions of the Continental Congress, the proponents of a Thanksgiving celebration prevailed, and the House appointed a committee consisting of Elias Boudinot, Roger Sherman, and Peter Silvester to approach President Washington. The Senate agreed to the resolution on 26 September and appointed William Samuel Johnson and Ralph Izard to the joint committee. On 28 September the Senate committee reported that they had laid the resolution before the president. Washington issued the proclamation on 3 October, designating a day of prayer and thanksgiving."

[Retired AF Dem]

49. He doesn't have a problem

He stated an opinion. You stated an opinion. As liberals and progressives shouldn't we respect other opinions even if we don't agree with them?

[Trajan]

52. Hmmm ....

I should get the FUCK out of here before I ruin my own holiday with this nonsense ....

I didnt realize that I should accept such silliness without complaint ....

[Retired AF Dem]

57. Bye

I didn't realize I was dealing with the all knowing.

[irislake]

77. Why are you hot and bothered about it?

Relax. Whatever turns you on.

[greyl]

59. "all cultures"? Absolutely not. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

60. Which cultures do not have a harvest festival?

I mean other than the obvious exception of non-agricultural cultures. If your point is that strictly hunting cultures such as the Inuit don't have a harvest festival, ok.

[greyl]

63. You answered your own question. :)

There are thousands of cultures in addition to Inuits, of course.

[Random_Australian]

90. Mine - very agricultural, no harvest festival. :)

[Dorian Gray]

72. The celebration existed before that

and you can make of Thanksgiving what you will. If you don't feel comfortable celebrating, then go ahead and spend the day doing what you like. If you enjoy eating, drinking, and spending the day with family while watching football, whisper thanks to your parents, your friends, or to whomever cooked your meal. Thank nature for being in existance. Thank the harvest for providing the food. Thank whoever you feel like thanking. Yes, I personally, thank God, but there is no mandate saying that's what you are supposed to do.

Just enjoy your turkey, your sweet potatoes and your stuffing and thank the people who provided it to you. Thank your parents for giving birth to you and allowing you to live in this world. Thank the people of this nation for not allowing the Republicans to run roughshod over us for the remainder of Bush's presidency. There are a lot of people you can thank without prayer.

[lapfog_1]

28. I have never viewed Thanksgiving as a religious holiday

I always viewed it in context, a harvest feast.

Back before there was all this civilization, people had harvest feasts, usually more than one. It marked the end of the harvest season, and for most people who lived close to nature, the end of farming work. It was also the beginning (in earnest) of hunting season that would last until the next spring. Game would be easier to get at this time, being more plentiful and without the life threatening hardship of hunting in the wintertime. So people would "fatten up for the winter"... literally. And it was needed, because many of the crops consumed would, with the primitive techniques used back then, perish in the winter time, much better for that food to be stored as fat in the body, where it could be used later in leaner times and would provide at least a little extra protection from cold.

We don't need to do that these days, but thousands (if not much longer) of years of habit are hard to break. So we get the turkey and the last fall crops (squash, pumpkins, berries from bogs, some of our stored wheat and corn, other hunted birds and small animals (pigs or wild boars), and we "fatten up for the winter". Eat ourselves silly.

Nothing wrong with it... as a tradition.

As for giving thanks to a supreme being or mother nature or whatever. If you feel the need, go for it. I won't object, and don't mind bowing my head while others pray if they are providing the feast.

[Onlooker]

30. Eggnog, turkey, stuffing, cranberry sauce, sweet potato pie, ...

for just my partner and me. No traveling on this disgusting weekend to be with parents, etc. No shopping in the overcrowded desperate malls. No thanks. No God. But, as an excuse for cooking a tasty decadent meal, then Thanksgiving it is.

[unpossibles]

32. I thank my friends and family,myself, and the food

and sometimes I thank some whiskey later on.

I have not been very interested in Thanksgiving as a holiday since becoming a vegetarian. I don't mind getting together with people and usually just eat what I want to without making a fuss (although I will often bring a dish just in case), but eventually someone notices I am not eating any turkey....

But yeah, I think you can be thankful to others and to yourself without bringing any gods into it.

[acmejack]

47. The good thing is there are usually lots of veggie dishes.

You're right, people for some reason think that a Vegetarian will still eat Fish, poultry and dairy. They always want you eat their turkey and factory raised creatures in particular, any in general, but the abused factory poultry are so abhorrent. The thought of their brief tormented existence makes me quite literally ill.

I go because my attendance is expected, Christmas and Thanksgiving are very difficult to avoid. I am resigned to attending these events once a year, a small price to pay for my family.

[greyl]

34. By temporarily changing my sigline, so far. ;)

edit: Good on you for your thoughtful generosity.:thumbsup:

[sarge43]

37. One of the nice things about Thanksgiving Day

It's not a religious holiday. Whatever you believe, you can be thankful and appreciate what fate, good luck, hard work or a divine entity has given you.

Red beans and rice - mmmmmm.

[Evoman]

42. I'm Canadian...we have Thanksgiving on another day. However, I don't celebrate it.

I don't "celebrate" any day. I use the days to take some time off and visit family, but the day itself is meaningless to me. I buy present for Christmas because its a social expectation. But on Thanksgiving, I usually sit around and play video games...my gf takes these days seriously and I think it bothers sometimes that I don't care what we do. She usually goes to visit family for Christmas and thanksgiving and wants me to go with her.

[China_cat]

45. Thank you boss for the day off with pay.

No gods needed.

[koopie57]

46. Thanksgiving to me

*soft sigh* I am thankful for many things. I know what I should be thankful for; friends, family, my job ... all that. And I am.

But I'm thankful that I'm content to stay at home and be happy. I feel sad that my kids want to have a normal thanksgiving, but I can't give that to them. I wish I could. But I can't. And I'm glad that even though it hurts, I'm okay with that.

My family goes to their in-laws and celebrate and then celebrate with me and my family and tell us how much fun they had, etc. When I was little I thought it was okay to be left alone with my drunk mom cuz when I got married I would never have to spend another holiday alone. Well, my in-laws ... let's just say that when my husband went through treatment for alcoholisms, they told me that no one could figure out why he married me .. that I was (shudder) so boring and dull. This was complete with gestures.

It hurts that when people ask me how I'm spending the holidays I tell them that it will be me and the kids and maybe my husband will be home. But that is the way things are today. I hope my kids marry into families that celebrate holidays. And I hope they begin to learn to look forward to the holidays. All I can give them right now is me, a warm home to come to, someones who loves them just the way they are and a game of yatzee. I wish I had more, but it would all be bullshit. I give what I can, it is given with all the love that is in me, it doesn't meet the standards, but this is the way it is today.

I know there are others who will read this who will understand. If next year we can be together, nothing would make me happier, but today is the way it is. Put me down, make fun of me, tell me I suck and see the glass and half full. I don't care. I'm doing my best today and I'm thankful for that. And it is okay.

[MrPrax]

51. Isn't It a Harvest Festival?

Where does religion enter into it. I am in Canada (we have it in October) and you'd be hard press to find anyone that would link Thanksgiving to implicitly to a religious celebration.

I was under the impression it was mainly a harvest celebration adapted to the 'New World'....it's still referred to as the Harvest Festival in the UK and includes a blessing for the 'good' harvest in local areas. ( I don't think it's a holiday -- the UK probably has the fewest number of stats than anyone on the planet...so much for that strong 'labour' tradition)

Technically speaking, the Canadian observance it older -- the original diner happened in 1578 when Frobisher had a dinner ceremony establishing a post in Newfoundland. The Plymouth celebration was in the 1620s or something. (Ha Ha We're Number One! We're Number One!)

In fact, it was regularly referred to jokingly as "franksgiving' because FDR introduced it, NOT as a religious holiday, but as a partisan remedy to the Depression. He thought it would help out merchants (same reason the Pope made Catholics eat fish on Fridays too)

putting away the big foamy finger, and changing focus

I am really quite surprised that atheists would be willing to concede so easily another 'fake' Xtian historical claim for their religion. There actually aren't a lot of holidays we observe that aren't universal in scope and common among a lot of religions/cultures...thanksgiving in BOTH 'new world' cases was a commemoration of secular conquest by Xtians. That don't make it religious.

[nannah]

64. thank goodness

i read an article through the pharygula website (I think, or possibly edge) in which the author said he expressed his appreciation for beneficial outcomes by "thanking goodness". The goodness of a competant doctor during his years of diligent studying and the "goodness" of his skills now. The goodness of the cook after a great meal. The goodness of teachers who inspired you or your children to learn. The goodness of your children as they choose healthy, life affirming endeavors. the goodness of radiant warmth on your skin. the goodness of the farmer who grew the nutritious grains and vegeys you will consume today. At the time, i thought it made wonderful sense to thank and appreciate a tangible reality like the goodness of a doctor who improves your life or the farmer who feeds your family than to issue thanks to a made up idea.

this year, i am thankful for the goodness of my children and their children, loving, warm, caring, giving humans who touch my life with joy each day. i am thankful for goodness, diversity, and eccentricity of my large family which broadens and enriches my experience each day. and i am hopeful that the tide of goodness is beginning to overcome the dark tide that has felt so tumultuous these past years.

[donsu]

65. I don't do thanksgiving as I side with the Indians however when I was

married and raising kids I more or less had to or fight with two families.

I did get to annoy my republican father by saying, right before the eating began, that every one should say what they were thankful for. and why didn't daddy start if off. being ScotchIrish he would turn dark with anger but say something Pablum like and as it went round the table and came to me I would say something feminist/political that gave him hives.

[Warren Stupidity]

66. Why not reclaim our ancient heritage from the puritans?

The harvest festival has NOTHING to do with slaughtering the locals and its origins precede the founding of the plymouth colony by a few thousand years.

[irislake]

69. Thanksgiving is a religious holiday?

Well blow me down. I have never associated it with religion at all. I just thought it was a peace party the natives shared with the settlers way back when. Canadians celebrate it in Ocotober. Why be over-serious? Do you really have to be thankful for something? Be thankful you got the day off from work. Does it really concern you? If so --- if you are suffering from "disproportionate emotional tension" over your beliefs -- an inordinate need to defend them ask yourself if you are not fighting unconscious religious impulses. In that case you might feel more comfortable passing yourself off as an agnostic. Or perhaps if you lived in a country that was more relaxed about the whole religious/non-religious thing you would just eat yer terky and shaddap! Happy Thanksiving, Americans!

[cosmik debris]

73. It has always been a religious holiday in the USA

And I am amazed that so many of my countrymen are unaware of that. I am still not sure whether it is a good thing or a bad thing, but it is definitely an interesting thing.

[irislake]

75. My family always celebrated Christmas

my mother (who was American) was a non-believer in any deity. My father was a lapsed Anglican. I never believed in the Christian myth but usually hiked off to one church or the other in our small town. Even sang in the choir. Usually went to mid-night mass in the Catholic church along with other protestants and non-believers. By the time I had four children and lived in Toronto I let them wander about from the Greek Orthodox Church at the top of our street where the caretaker took them in with other kids in the neighbourhood to watch weddings -- to the nearest synagog for friends Bat Mitzpahs and Bar Mitpahs, to the United Church -- wherever. I felt they should be free to make up their minds about religious beliefs. (They haven't embraced a religion but think there may be a divine force in the universe).I lied and said there was a Santa, an Easter Bunny, a toothfairy. Never said a word about a deity. None of my friends were religious. Even most of my Catholic friends had fallen away from the church when they were adults. We all celebrated Christmas. Lots of our Jewish friends had trees and did the Santa bit. Now that I'm in my 60s I am noticing how many people even in their 90s refuse to have any sort of funeral or memorial when they die. Sometimes we might go to the house of a relative and just eat, drink, and swap stories about the departed person. Other times there is absolutely nothing at all because it was a dying wish. I just think of Christmas as an old celebration -- like the winter soltice. I think all the symbols are beautiful. I love myths and fairytales. The Christian myth came lock stock and barrel from the Egyptian myth of Horus. The Bible is chock full of folktale motifs and legends etc. I love stuff like that. The decorations, the food, and the music above all. It was wonderful to go out Christmas caroling or on sleighrides with horses with bells on snowy nights way up north in Canada. Sigh. Happy Thanksgiving. I yearn to be sitting down to dinner with yo'all! I'm all alone here in my little log cabin. Just me and my dogs. (Sob.)

[cosmik debris]

79. If it helps,

Just remember that when summer comes around there will be plenty of us city dwellers who envy your pastoral tranquility! And I will certainly be one of them. But during the winter I prefer a warmer climate. (It is 75 degrees F here.)

And back to the original topic, I believe it is about being happy with what you have. You don't really need to have gratitude, but appreciation of your circumstances relative to the less fortunate is VERY important.

[Finder]

91. A religious holiday only to the religious...

and a harvest celebration to everyone else.

[Dorian Gray]

71. Not an atheist,

but would one need to believe in God to celebrate Thanksgiving? You can be thankful to your family, to your friends, or to the physical world. You can appreciate the good in your life without prayer, I would believe. I think of it as a secular holiday, and the football is just a nice little added ritual! :)

[TheBaldyMan]

74. Go overseas, Thanksgiving is only N. America.

[Zhade]

82. Now imagine an atheist who's also mixed Native American/caucasian.

On this day, I always joke that one half of my family's ancestors were busy plotting to steal the other half's land.

(I didn't say it was a funny joke...)

Um, I mostly take people's good, if thoughtless, sentiments as intended. Sure, we're NOT the greatest country on the planet (that one just made me shake my head in bewilderment), and it's arrogant for people to walk around 'blessing' people and saying 'god be with you this fine day' (not everyone is even a believer, let alone a Christian), but people mean well, and I can let it slide for today.

With that said, I wish everyone a wonderful day!

[irislake]

88. Beautiful!

Merci beaucoup.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

89. Why on earth should Thanksgiving involve prayer?

One can be perfectly thankful without involving any deity. My family does not "pray" at the table or anything such as that.

[charles22]

93. Thanksgiving nothing to do with religion.

So.....

[neebob]

94. I just have a low-key meal with my 17-year-old son

I always get the charity single-mom invitations from co-workers, but accepting one last year caused epic whining, which was then validated by an overbearing male guest latching onto my son and conveying (among other things) his 3-point plan for success in life. Back to the traditional dinner by ourselves.

I always do turkey and stuffing, because I love leftover turkey-and-stuffing sandwiches. I spend the morning putting off stuffing the bird - yeah, I know but it just ain't the same done outside the bird, and I'm still here after 46 years of in-the-bird stuffing.

This year I unwittingly picked a turkey without giblets, so that was a bonus.

Once it's in the oven, I clean up the mess and then sit around with funny-feeling hands, being generally thankful to no one in particular for the many things I have to be thankful for - including that I'm not in Salt Lake, being corrected and assailed with Mo stuff by Mo-Mom and watching my brother emulate the Supreme King Boss Man of Everything with his four kids.

Then we eat and watch movies, and I sit around having mixed feelings about the phone not ringing and putting off securing the leftovers and cleaning up the new mess.

I have to admit Thanksgiving tends to stir up the shit, despite my refusing to expose myself directly. Adding my son to the mix just highlights the difference in parenting and creates more tension.

It's nice, though, having our own little tradition. I wish I could do it without the internal turmoil.

[StrongbadTehAwesome]

95. Thanksgiving is one of the few holidays I DON'T consider blatantly religious.

You don't need God to reflect on the good things that have happened for you in the last year. I take that time to show gratitude to the people who keep me from losing my mind the other 364 days of the year - my husband, my family, etc.

[NMMNG]

96. I take inventory of all that I'm thankful for,

though I don't "give thanks" to any deity.

As to the menu it was Tofurkey with vegan stuffing, mashed potatoes, mixed veggies, and cranberry sauce.

[and-justice-for-all]

97. What does Thanksgiving have to do with G-D/religion?? nt

It should be a day of remource and apology to the natives of this country that were butchered by terrorist.

What makes you think that Atheist are ungreatful? I find that rather ignorant. Again, we see that people think that morals are tied in with religion and its not. You dont need dogma or an invisiable friend to have strong moral character or to know whats right and whats wrong.

And I worked.

[cosmik debris]

98. Please read post 27, 55, 56, 58

Thanksgiving was set aside as a national holiday to give thanks to god. Apparently some on this board don't see that as a religious act, but I can't comprehend that point of view. Do you believe that giving praise and thanks to god is a secular act? You may have a valid point about what it should be, but it is what Congress and the President say it is because they are the ones who make it a national holiday.

And I have no idea where you got that notion that I said atheists are ungrateful. What I said was that we atheists have no diety to give thanks to. We atheists do not give thanks to god per the Presidential Decree. That made me curious about how other atheist handle a holiday for giving thanks to god.

As for atheists and morals, you just made that shit up. I never said anything of the sort.

I am sorry you misunderstood my post. Please try again.

[beam me up scottie]

99. Um, for those of you who doubt it's a religious holiday,

try telling it to someone who didn't tune in to normally secular NPR on Thursday hoping to hear some international news and maybe a little Vivaldi, only to find out they had gospel music programs on ALL FUCKING DAY.

Not churchy Bach tunes, not Christmas carols, not some old fashioned bluegrass (all of which I find tolerable and at times even enjoyable) but gospel, sprinkled intermittently with religious quotes and prayers from famous people telling us why they were thankful.

I usually don't like using the puke smilie, but it's certainly appropriate here: :puke:


As a matter of fact, on edit, it deserves more than one:

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:





Oh, and I spent the day NOT listening to NPR. :)

[Realityhack]

100. Well.

I can be 'thankful' that my life is as good as it is without attributing that to anything but blind luck.

I basicaly spent it with family.