HBO's Documentary on The Brooklyn Dodgers and a Note for the Twins

[Yavin4]

If you get a chance, you must check out HBO's wonderful documentary on the Brooklyn Dodgers. It's about so much more than baseball. It's really a story about post-WWII America, integration, suburban migration, and the promise of the sunny West coast.

Now for the twins that post here all of the time. When Walter O'Malley agreed to move the Dodgers to LA, he had a big problem. There were no other western time zone teams, so he convinced the owner of the NY Giants to move his team to that toilet bowl of a stadium, Candlestick park in SF. This way, the Dodgers would have at least one opponent in their time zone. Originally, the Giants were on their way to Minnesota. So, the fact that SF even has a team was really just a matter of covenience for the Dodgers.

[inthebrain]

1. O'malley is the ultimate douche in New York Sports

My Grandparents were HUGE Brooklyn Dodgers fans.

That's the one name that's forbidden in their household. You say that name and your ass is out the door.

[Yavin4]

7. It Wasn't O'Malley. It Was Robert Moses

I'm giving away the great documentary here, but O'Malley begged and pleaded with Robert Moses to build a new stadium in Brooklyn. Moses refused. Moses wanted the Dodgers to move to Queens where the Mets are now.

O'Malley did not want to move to Queens, and he was hesitant to move the team to LA. However, Moses was such a dick to him that he indeed did move.

You really have to watch it. It's fascinating.

[inthebrain]

11. Omalley was also going behind the scenes to LA

While "begging and pleading" with Moses. Moses was a massive racist dick (he was also responsible for building a lot of New Yorks bridges, Tunnels and Highways).

I've actually watched. I also grew up New York and most of my family were Dodgers fans. Moses gets about 20% of the blame whereas Omalley gets the other 80%. Omalley gets it deservedly. His hands weren't tied and before he got his final answer was already living in LA.

[Jack Rabbit]

2. Candlestick Park had not been built in 1958

The Giants' original home in San Francisco was Seals Stadium, home of the City's Pacific Coast League franchise.

Candlestick Park was not completed until 1960.

It was a terrible place to play baseball or to see a game as a fan. A friend of mine tells a story of getting a spotted sunburn there -- the spots being caused by goosebumps. If you've ever been there, you'd understand how that's possible.

[Yavin4]

8. Whatever The Point Is Still Valid

The SF Giants were an afterthought.

[Auggie]

13. No

[Auggie]

3. Not true

San Francisco had been wanting a major league club for years. S.F. Mayor George Christopher approached Giants owner Horace Stoneham about the move after speaking with L.A. Mayor Norris Poulson and confirming his support of getting the Dodgers.

Christopher knew O'Malley was thinking of moving the Dodgers -- possibly to L.A. Credit him for making it happen for both cities. It was not convenience.

Oh, and Candlestick did not exist until 1960, two years after the move. And it was not a toilet bowl then.


LINK: http://books.google.com/books?id=ZO8mHh-wjcAC&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=san+Francisco+Giants+george+christopher&source=bl&ots=QSkErNXzhU&sig=-U8HgNjQ2Sp0Um5Srp6K00ec8b0&hl=en&ei=LCRmSsPXJ42AswP6-JyeCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7

[JonLP24]

4. Funny I was reading about this last night

From what I read the Giants were considering a move to Minnesota because they had priority due to a successful minor league club under their franchise. It was at this time the SF mayor approached them about a move but he had objections from shareholders. I think you're correct about O'Malley being told he cannot move to LA unless an other team moves to California so he pushed one of the shareholders to support relocating. You could say it was a matter of convienence for both teams as it appears both were looking to relocating and it seems both teams wouldn't of been able to make the move without the other.

[madinmaryland]

5. Interesting to contemplate what would have happened if the NY Giants had

moved to Minnesota. Can you imagine the San Francisco Senators or Rangers.

:rofl:

The Sports Forum twins probably would have been Dodgers or A's Fans. And they would be defending M-Roid with all their might!

:rofl:

[cboy4]

6. You're so full of crap

As everyone has pointed out, Candlestick Park was not in existence.

And it looks to me like it was a perfectly fine venue back then.

[Yavin4]

9. Fine. I Was Wrong About The Actual Park

But Candlestick was indeed a pure dump to watch a baseball game.

[cboy4]

10. Actually, for die-hard Giants fans, we always looked forward to going to

Candlestick and never viewed it as a dump, per se.

By far, the worst aspect was just how windy and cold the place was, even on a sunny weekend day game.

Night games were just miserably cold and I sat through my fair share.

[Jack Rabbit]

12. OK, c'mon, Cowboy

Not everyone is a die hard fan and no team can survive by just attracting die hard fans.

Few who weren't die hard fans would go near the Stick, which is why the Giants nearly left San Francisco more than once.

And you, who like to ridicule other teams for their poor attendance nowadays, would have never done the same thing to the Giants in the mid-seventies to the mid-eighties, when they had less than successful seasons in the standings and failed to draw a million at home.

Or do you remember that?

[cboy4]

14. I understand that eventually with age, the stadium became what it became.

But I'm mostly responding to the OP who insinuates that Candlestick Park was a toilet bowl from the start, and even though I wasn't around then, I don't believe that's true.

I am aware that the Giants drew 8,000 a game like the Pirates do now (the Pirates' overall attendance is boosted by their multiple fireworks/concert night attractions.)

But no other team, with perhaps the exception of the Mariners (and they played indoors at the Kingdome and often indoors now at Safeco) can complain about the miserably cold weather in the summer time.

I still argue the weather was far more of a factor than the stadium, although it is true that any city that doesn't build something new for its team is in risk of losing it.

[Jack Rabbit]

15. Trust me

I'm 57, and it was not much better a place to play or watch the game when I was a kid. I was 11 when I saw my first game there in 1963.

Renovating the Stick and enclosing the stadium only made it worse. Peter Ueberroth, then commissioner of baseball, remarked that the renovation turned it into a pretty good football stadium.