Why (Pete) Rose should be in Hall of Fame and drug cheats should not.

[madinmaryland]

Pete Rose turned 70 years old on Thursday. It's not known if he marked the day by sliding headfirst into a three-layer cake. The day Peter Edward Pan begins his eighth decade, we all start aging in dog years.

Rose is the world's oldest child. His life has been ruled by impulse and compulsion. If it feels good, do it. As a manager, Rose used gambling to provide the competitive rush he no longer had as a player. After 15 years of denials, Rose admitted in his book My Prison Without Bars that he bet on baseball games. He got a $1 million advance for that stunner. For $1 million, Pete Rose would admit he was a komodo dragon.

Since the book appeared in 2004, any chance Rose had of being reinstated to baseball -- and being eligible for its Hall of Fame -- seemed as likely as Pete nailing an exacta every day for the rest of his life. And yet, the debate lingers. It's not pushed by Rose. He has reconciled himself to the notion he will not be in the Hall. The talk is furthered by the drug cheats, alleged and admitted, that still dominate the headlines.

It used to be, Major League Baseball summarily dismissed Rose's pleas by saying he violated the game's scarlet rule. It's not that easy now. Not when Mark McGwire's name is on the Hall of Fame ballot, and Roger Clemens' will be. Not when there is no good solution for Barry Bonds.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/paul_daugherty/04/15/rose.ramirez.hall/index.html#ixzz1Jj7bPEGc

:popcorn:

[era veteran]

1. I don't know about that Mad

Part of me would like to see it as I grew up seeing The Big Red Machine, but he gambled on his team.
Those steroid boys should be ALL kicked out of baseball. Between the strikes and the juicing they have ruined the game for me. Not to mention the equity loan you need to visit the park.
Cheers

[madinmaryland]

3. The way I see it, Pete Rose's gambling issues had nothing to do with

the way he played the game as a player. I think his record as a player should have put him in the Hall. If I recall correctly, Pete Rose did not even drink, let alone use anything that might have impaired himself.

That being said, I don't think he should ever have a job in baseball at any level again.

[trumad]

5. Well then I guess you think the Blacksox players

should be in as well?--Joe Jackson for instance?

[madinmaryland]

6. Arguing about degrees. Did Pete Rose ever throw any games?

Interestingly, Joe Jackson was never convicted of anything, though he was indicted.

[trumad]

10. Did he ever throw games?

He was the Manager of his team, betting on his team.

Do you not see the problem there?

[Gemini Cat]

18. I think Shoeless Joe should be in the Hall of Fame.

[Kingofalldems]

2. PED users should be erased from the record book

[El Supremo]

4. He killed Bart Giamatti.

'nuf said

[madinmaryland]

7. Cigarettes killed Giamatti. nuff said.

[Jack Rabbit]

8. I would like to make a case for Rose and the "drug cheats"

My belief that Rose should be in the HoF has nothing to do with the sins of those who came after his playing days. It simply has to do with that Rose played baseball the way it should be played, hard and with all his heart. Do you remember the rookie in 1963 who took a walk and sprinted to first base like he was trying to beat out a ground ball? As a matter of fact, do you remember players who tried to beat out a ground ball?

Steroid users did what they did because not to do it was anti-competitive. If they couldn't make it juicing up, there was a hungry rookie who was willing to endanger his health to make his playing years more productive. Moreover, sluggers brought fans to the ballpark. No one cared whether the Cardinals won or lost, Mark McGwire's and Sammy Sosa's pursuit of Babe Ruth and Roger Maris sparked renewed interest in the game. The owners were acting like owners. They undoubtedly knew some of their players were juicing up and they didn't care as long as they were performing. The owners are the ones who tacitly encouraged steroid use and did nothing about it. To the owners, a juiced up ballplayer was money in the bank. Of course, Bud Selig, the owners' commissioner, was going to hide his head in the sand. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

So let's have Bonds and Clemens and McGwire and Sosa in the HoF. It's the owners of this era who most deserve our scorn. There should be no statue for Bud Selig and no plaque for George Steinbrenner. They are the true guilty parties. They are the ones who failed to blow the whistle when they could have and who would have stopped paying an old slugger when he could no longer get around on a fastball and knock it into orbit.

[Bluzmann57]

9. Pete Rose should NOT be in the HoF

He gambled on his own team and it is very possible to affect the outcome of a game when gambling on your team, whether as a player or a manager. So what he did is at least as bad as what the steroid boys did.

[trumad]

11. How that is lost on a supposedly knowledgeable sports fan

is beyond me. I'd say he can, as a Manager, throw a game more than anyone.

Pitching changes, batting order changes, etc.

[Auggie]

12. The HOF is full of jerks, i.e., Tom Yawkey

Yawkey was owner of the Boston Red Sox from 1933-1976. His Red Sox were the last Major League team to field an African American player --this coming in 1959 -- leading to charges that Yawkey was one of the biggest racists ever in baseball. Yet Yawkey was inducted in 1980, recently enough that one would think the argument not to induct would have been stronger. I've never been to Cooperstown and am curious what the homage is to someone like Yawkey.

So Yawkey is in and Pete isn't. I think Rose should be in the Hall based on his player stats, but with full notation what he did was wrong and the consequences he's faced (it's part of history now anyway), and I support his continued ban from official MLB events.

Drug cheats? No way.

[Upton]

13. Betting on games

when you're in a position to directly influence the outcome is the ultimate sports sin. Rose, after years of denial, finally came out and admitted he bet on the Reds every single game while he was managing them. Of course, now he claims he bet on them only to win..but why should we believe him after he's lied before?

If an entire era of MLB players should be refused entry into the HoF because of either documented or suspected PED use, then it should be very easy to keep denying Rose..

[hughee99]

23. Pete Rose is (among other things) a degenerate gambler.

I find it absolutely impossible to believe he bet on the Reds every single game to win. At BEST, I'd believe he bet on the Reds the days he liked them, and bet on some other game when he didn't, but to believe that, you'd have to think Rose would have inside info and not use it to bet. I know several people with gambling problems, and this goes against everything I've ever seen.

[flvegan]

14. Let them all in.

Rose as a player. Don't know if the manager part can be stricken, don't know if it should.

As for the players who have used or allegedly used, I can't see a successful argument for banning them. If the stance is to ban them because they used performance enhancers, that has zero logic at all. If the stance is to ban them for using illegal substances, then are we going to ban every player that used painkillers or amphetamines that they technically didn't get legally? And I'm just completely sure that players aren't using ephedra (in any form) anymore. I mean MLB tests for it, but players can have SOME in their system, no problem. What if the player tests positive for using pot? Still a violation of the policy. Had a little mj during the all-star break? Sorry, no HOF for you.

[Ter]

15. PED users try to help their team by being the best they can be

Pete Rose might have gambled against his own team, and quite possibly threw games. He should go in only if Shoeless Joe Jackson goes in, and wait as long as he had to wait (he's waiting 90 years already).

[El Supremo]

16. Yeah sure. And George Steinbrenner was just trying to help the Republican party.

They are cheaters!

[Ter]

20. Then so is eating healthy and lifting weights

It helps your performance tremendously.

[bluedigger]

17. Rose will go in posthumously.

This will be the solution for all the dishonorably eligible candidates. They won't be honored while alive, yet their achievements can't be ignored...

[joeybee12]

19. He should never be considered...never, never, never...nt

[MrCoffee]

21. Pete Rose should not be allowed in the HOF with paid admission at the gate

Fuck Charley Hustle.

[ProfessorGAC]

22. What Mr. Coffee Said

Besides, we don't know for sure what he did to cheat while playing the game. His demeanor and behavior both suggest he was using greenies like so many of the others in the 60's and 70's. That is now on the PED list.

So, if we keep all PED users out, even those we suspect, then there is reason to suspect Rose.

So, he's out of the hall for two reasons. And like Coffee said, i wouldn't even let him park his car on the same block.
GAC