MLB needs to stiffen the penalties for steroid use.

[MrPerson]

If you test positive in the future, you are banned.

Or watch attendance tank further.

[Upton]

1. You're wrong about the attendance

In 2008 MLB drew 78,584,286...second only to 2007's 79,447,286...considering the last two years have seen the highest attendance in MLB history, I wouldn't exactly call that tanking.

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/2000-03attendance.htm

[MrPerson]

2. That's why they're laying off people and

Haven't hardly signed anyone.

[Hobarticus]

4. Little to do with steroids...

Just sayin'.

[MrPerson]

5. No - but if business is so good.....

[Hobarticus]

8. There's no connection, at all...

I know where you're going with this, but every business sector is contracting right now, in case you haven't noticed.

[MrPerson]

14. The steroid scandal is going to hurt an already bad situation.

They just laid off 4.5% of their workforce.

[Hobarticus]

16. Show me a connection between the first appearance of steroids

and the resultant slippage in MLB attendance and profitability, then.

[MrPerson]

18. I didn't say that. I said it will hurt it further.

Their biggest star just was found testing positive for steroids.

[Hobarticus]

23. And I say your logic is false.

Steroids hasn't hurt the sport. If you love the sport, you'll go to the games and buy the t-shirt. Steroids have been in MLB headlines for a long time, and if your theory held water then attendance would have been going down ever since with no end in sight. But it hasn't.

It may turn off a few fans....but jeez, how much of a fan could they have been in the first place? A guy told me once that he stopped watching baseball after the strike...in 1994. I laughed in his face and called him an idiot. How someone could feel so emotionally wounded by a game he loved for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with him or affected him personally is completely asinine.

[MrPerson]

26. They stopped in Pittsburgh when the union won.

They knew they deck was stacked against them.

And laughing in people's faces and calling them idiots?

Do you get in fights a lot?

[Hobarticus]

30. None I can't win. Looks like my work here is done, too.

Since you've failed yet to produce any proof of these fairy tales you're weaving by way of a relevant link, I'd say my theory on opinions has been proven here, yet again.

[MrPerson]

35. I would say they haven't but that you have been

incredibly arrogant and offensive.

And the links you provided don't prove your point.

I've refuted every one of them.

You must be in great demand at parties.

[Hobarticus]

38. Produce a link, any link. Concept's simple.

[MrPerson]

42. ta da.

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/60704

“Nobody knows what’s going to happen, but this is a time to be very cautious,” Selig said, referring in part to a decision made at the meetings to freeze the central office’s operating budget for 2009 at its 2008 levels.

[MrPerson]

44. And another

In downplaying expectations for 2009, Selig declined to make predictions for baseball's 2009 revenue and attendance.

http://www.reuters.com/article/Media08/idUSTRE4B430W20081205

[Hobarticus]

55. Again, no connection to steroids.

Generally, if you make a point, and provide a link to back up your point, make the info at the other end of the link relevant. just sayin'.

[MrPerson]

69. I posted a poll too.

[Hobarticus]

51. Not so hard, was it?

Still, reading this all I find is that MLB is understandably cautious lately, as is every other business sector. But nothing about any of that having anything to do with steroids.

If you want to make some connection between MLB and their financial outlook and steroids in your mind, that's fine; it's your opinion, then.

My opinion? I don't agree with you, based on this evidence.

Then again, my opinion and your opinion put together won't buy us a cup of coffee.

That's all, nothing personal.

Can we play nice?

[MrPerson]

52. Sure.

Just don't question my linking abilities again sir.

[Hobarticus]

54. Well, since this is the first time I've seen them, not bad...

Could use some work, yet, but you'll get there.

[MrPerson]

22. They're looking at the season ticket sales and cringing.

And the NY teams are both moving into smaller venues.

[Hobarticus]

28. "Cringing"?

Again, times are tough, as a whole. Ticket sales are down, sure. But not becasue of steroids.

You keep this false logic game up, there's a promising career for you over at Fox.

[MrPerson]

29. You're good at not listening - you would do well at Fox.

[Hobarticus]

32. Just give a me a link - ANY link - to prove any of your points.

Put up or shut up, as they say in the biz.

[MrPerson]

48. link

Even pro leagues feel economic squeeze play
Even pro leagues feel economic squeeze play
By Ronald Blum
Published: September 21, 2008
Buzz up!

NEW YORK — The tumult in the U.S. economy finally is starting to affect an industry that has enjoyed years of growth: major league sports.
Featured Gallery

Advertisement
Click here to find out more!

The NBA is laying off employees. Major League Baseball attendance has dropped after four straight record years. The NFL says revenue is under pressure.

While the symptoms are relatively mild so far, the latest developments say something about how far financial woe has spread in a nation where the appetite for sports seems ever-expanding.

"I used to come to maybe eight or 10 games a year, but this year it was only four games on three trips,” said Jack Maloney, a Cleveland Indians fan who watched his team play at home against Kansas City last weekend. "The price of tickets has gone up, you've got to pay to park, the price of food at the ballpark is ridiculous, and so are the gas prices. I'm glad we filled up Friday. It was $3.67 then. This morning, it was $3.99. That's just stupid.”

NBA commissioner David Stern said his league intends to trim at least 50 of the 800 jobs in its U.S. work force, more than 6 percent, and says the NBA has shuttered its league office in Los Angeles.

"Our revenue targets are still being met,” Stern said. "But we know that there's going to be enormous pressure on those targets in the next year or two, based on the country's deteriorating economic circumstances.

"I think it's fair to say that a sporting event may well define disposable income,” he said.

Make no mistake — America's major leagues still take in billions of dollars, with individual team incomes varying through a sliding equation that includes tickets, luxury suites, national and local broadcasting, sponsorship, advertising, concessions, parking and licensing.

But executives throughout sports are taking a new look at expenses, fearing the boom years may be over in a business that once seemed recession-proof.

Last winter and spring, coming off baseball's first season topping $6 billion in revenue, commissioner Bud Selig was saying the sport could break 80 million in attendance for the first time. Indeed, during the opening half of the season, MLB was at times slightly ahead of last year's pace.

Heading into the final two weeks of the regular season, however, average attendance was 32,553, down about 1 percent from last year's record of 32,785.

"I think 80 million was a realistic expectation based on the prior four years,” said Bob DuPuy, baseball's chief operating officer. "But to draw 79 million or 78 million or 79.5 million or 80 million, wherever we end up exactly is absolutely remarkable given the economy.”

Yet in Kansas City, where the Royals beat the Seattle Mariners before an announced crowd of 10,307 on Monday night, the team offered a retro pricing deal: $3 for upper deck seats and $5 for parking. Even that was too much for some fans who came to see the two last-place clubs.

Ed Stoll, a retiree from Blue Springs, Mo., brought his three granddaughters to the game.

"Price has restricted us. Every once in a while we get free tickets — that's why we're here tonight. I really can't afford to come very often,” he said. "We have to control what we spend and don't usually buy souvenirs — we're not into them that much.”

While season tickets sold before mid-2008 already are locked in, there are indications teams may face a tougher time selling seats for 2009 and beyond.

"Anything outside of rent, taxes, fuel, food, shelter, after that everything falls into the category of discretionary spending,” said Bernard Baumohl, chief global economist of The Economic Outlook Group. "We may not see any significant rebound in consumer spending, especially discretionary, disposable spending, until 2010.”

http://www.newsok.com/article/3300239

[Hobarticus]

56. Again, you've cited the obvious as proof...

...of a dubious statement and drawing a connection that most likely isn't there.

[Upton]

58. Couple things wrong with that

as I've already pointed out, 2008 was the second highest attendance figure in MLB history. We have yet to see what effect the economy will have on the 2009 season, speculation does your argument little good.

However, most notably, your OP stated:

If you test positive in the future, you are banned.

Or watch attendance tank further.


Your clear inference is that MLB baseball attendance has been in decline for a period of time due to the steroid issue. As has been proven time and time again on this thread nothing could be further from the truth.

[MrPerson]

60. No. I said that baseball has to do something to restore credibility.

This A-Rod thing is just starting.

He lied about his steroid use.

[Hobarticus]

67. Now you're just flat-out lying...quit while you're ahead.

[MrPerson]

68. No. A-Rod lied.

[Hobarticus]

73. You have a lot in common, then.

[MrPerson]

75. I have been nothing but truthful.

GOOD DAY SIR!!!!!!!

[Hobarticus]

77. Good riddance...

[MrPerson]

79. I SAID GOOD DAY, SIR!!!!!!!!

[Upton]

17. There have been 354 free agent signings

only 72 remain outstanding...hard to refer to that as having "hardly signed anyone."

http://www.mlbfreeagents.net/

[MrPerson]

19. The easy ones. The most costly ones haven't.

They don't want to spend $

[Upton]

25. Sure you're right

Mark Teixeira was signed by the Yankees for 8 years at $180m.

CC Sabathia signed with the Yankees for 7 years $161m

Red Sox and John Smoltz agreed to a one year, $5.5m guaranteed deal.

A.J. Burnett signed with the Yankees for 5 years at $82.5m.

Randy Johnson was signed by the Giants for 1 year, $8m.

There lots more...these guys don't look "easy" to me.

[MrPerson]

27. The Yankees? They aren't a barometer.

They have a large TV market.

I'm talking about "normal" cities.

[Upton]

34. You're not really up on this issue

are you?.... All your answers are purely off the cuff. To be honest with you, you appear to have no idea what you're talking about. Until you back up your claims with links, you're inviting that condescending attitude you were complaining about.

[Hobarticus]

36. Don't hold your breath waiting on those links...

Ain't coming.

[MrPerson]

39. The YANKEES?

They overspent. They always do.

I don't need a link for that.

[Upton]

46. I'm still waiting on the link

backing up your claim that MLB attendance is down. Care to retract that statement, or do you prefer to wallow in your own errors?

[MrPerson]

47. Link

http://www.reuters.com/article/Media08/idUSTRE4B187T20081203

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Major League Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig, whose sport is coming off a record year, downplayed expectations for the 2009 season, saying the game is no longer recession-proof with too much uncertainty to predict attendance or revenues.

Selig said he was concerned about how the sickly economy -- and the severe turmoil facing the three big U.S. automakers -- would affect the league's 30 teams. He has cautioned owners to avoid being "too cocky" when setting ticket prices.

"There used to be a theory ... that we seemed almost to be recession proof," Selig told the Reuters Media Summit on Tuesday. "This is different clearly, and so we're going to be very sensitive."

The Boston Red Sox, one of baseball's biggest success stories, has decided not to raise ticket prices for the first time since 1994, while the Oakland A's cut prices by an average of 5 percent.

[Upton]

64. Again no connection to steroids

only speculation that attendance figures may be hurt due to the economy.

[MrPerson]

3. They also lie about attendance.

[Hobarticus]

10. Welcome to DU!

Sincerely, but just a helpful hint: when you make a statement like this it's helpful to add a link making a token attempt to prove your statement.

Otherwise it's just an opinion, and you know what they say about those...

[MrPerson]

12. If it was GD I would.

I'm just very disillusioned about A-Rod.

[Hobarticus]

15. Well, this story stinks, for several reasons...

The first and foremost being that this particular round of steroid tests that he failed were supposed to be random and anonymous. MLB really just wanted to get their hands around the problem while they decided what to do about it, to see how pervasive the problem was. Apparently it was pretty bad, there were 104 players total.

Now all of a sudden, just after the Bonds news breaks, this supposedly anonymous player is identified and whoever ID'd his sample is positive it's A-Rod. I dunno, it kinda stinks to me. Smoke and mirrors? Straw man? Take your pick. Whatever it does to A-Rod and baseball, it sure takes the heat off Bonds. Convenient, eh?

Nonetheless, it's kinda silly to accuse MLB of lying without something to back it up. For all we know, YOU could be lying.

And since I walk the walk, here's a link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3893240

The Major League Baseball Players Association issued a statement Saturday afternoon: "Information and documents relating to the results of the 2003 MLB testing program are both confidential and under seal by court orders. We are prohibited from confirming or denying any allegation about the test results of any particular player by the collective bargaining agreement and by court orders. Anyone with knowledge of such documents who discloses their contents may be in violation of those court orders."
Major League Baseball said it was "disturbed" by the report, but did not elaborate because of player confidentiality.

"Because the survey testing that took place in 2003 was intended to be nondisciplinary and anonymous, we cannot make any comment on the accuracy of this report as it pertains to the player named," MLB executive vice president Rob Manfred said.

For a list that was to remain confidential, quite a few people have had access to the players' names, including 17 federal judges and dozens of lawyers, federal prosecutors and investigators. Federal investigators looking for data on 10 players connected to the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative first seized the list of 104 names in April 2004 during a raid on a private laboratory.

Since then, three federal trial court judges and their staffs reviewed the lists in considering related legal actions filed by the players' union, which argued the 104 names were improperly seized because the original search warrant sought only the names of 10 players in the BALCO investigation.

[MrPerson]

20. I think the story is true. FOUR sources.

[MrPerson]

21. And the player's union as a source?

Don't make me laugh. They're the problem.

[Hobarticus]

24. Then stop watching baseball, already.

Jeez.

[MrPerson]

31. I have for the most part. Until they wise up.

And adopt a salary cap and revenue sharing like the NFL.

[Hobarticus]

33. I'm sure they're "cringing" at the loss of your viewership.

[MrPerson]

37. Another insult.

No links are better than the ones you provided.

They don't prove your point.

[Hobarticus]

40. Just provide any link, please.

[MrPerson]

43. eat this one too

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,425104,00.html

"I used to come to maybe eight or 10 games a year, but this year it was only four games on three trips," said Jack Maloney, a Cleveland Indians fan who watched his team play at home against Kansas City last weekend. "The price of tickets has gone up, you've got to pay to park, the price of food at the ballpark is ridiculous, and so are the gas prices. I'm glad we filled up Friday. It was $3.67 then. This morning, it was $3.99. That's just stupid."

[Hobarticus]

53. "Eat this one too"? My, how respectful!

Fans complaining about ticket prices is absolutely nothing new, Jack's bitching is hardly a harbinger of doom. But again, just my opinion.

[cboy4]

6. I'm just happy Barry Bonds never tested positive.

He was an attendance machine both in San Francisco and on the road because so many people wanted to watch the MLB Home Run King put on a show.

Who can blame them?

[MrPerson]

7. The untold story is the high school steroid use.

[Upton]

9. Maybe you ought to get your story straight

you were wrong about the attendance, wrong about a first time ban for a positive test, so now you've switched from MLB to HS. Perhaps you should do a little reading up on things and try again.

[MrPerson]

11. Right about attendance. Right about the ban.

If I want to add another reason I will. Perhaps you want to wait until teams start folding? Why don't you not assume I haven't read about it and not be so condescending? That's not nice you know.

[Upton]

13. Show me a link

backing up your claim that attendance is "tanking"...

BTW, claiming MLB is lying about attendance figures is an obvious dodge.

[Captain Hilts]

41. It's a BIG problem in high school sports. nt

[MrPerson]

45. Link please, sir.

Or they call you names and shit.

[MrPerson]

49. WELL WHERE ARE YOU PEOPLE????????????

[MrPerson]

50. Links they want, links they get.

And then they run and hide like little children.

I WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hobarticus]

57. Your links suck.

You win? What, are you twelve?

[MrPerson]

59. link, pleeze.

[Hobarticus]

62. This just in: first pitch to be thrown out by Jesus....

I just thunk it up, so it must be fact!

[MrPerson]

71. Link?

[Hobarticus]

74. Well duh, it's obvious.

I mean, I like mustard on a sandwich as much as the next guy.

[MrPerson]

61. Poll: 61-33 favor ban for steroid use

By a 61 - 33 percent margin, American baseball fans say Major League players who test positive for steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs should be banned from baseball, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

Steroid/drug use is a "major problem," 65 percent of fans tell the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll.

Fans oppose 57 - 36 percent the idea of expunging all baseball records of players who use steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs. But fans say 52 - 42 percent that steroid/drug users should be banned from the Baseball Hall of Fame.

[MrPerson]

63. They're pulling offers from the table

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29069699/

NEW YORK (AP) -Randy Wolf was offered a $27 million, three-year contract by the Houston Astros in mid-November. A week later, Astros executives realized they couldn't afford him.

They called Wolf's agent the following day and withdrew the offer. On Friday, with spring training a few days away, the pitcher agreed to a $5 million, one-year deal with the Los Angeles Dodgers that allows him to earn $3 million more in bonuses.

[Hobarticus]

65. Gotta be the steroids...

[MrPerson]

66. No. Please stop being deliberately obtuse.

Steroids will be the last straw.

Its the economy.....

[Hobarticus]

70. No, seriously...one guy in Cleveland isn't going to ball games anymore...

Baseball's finished.

[MrPerson]

72. No when I go I sit in the back near the concession stand.

[Hobarticus]

76. I had waffles for breakfast.

[MrPerson]

78. That is such a bad food choice.

I am disappointed in you.

Nutrition, dood.

[MrPerson]

80. Amazing how he avoids the poll.