How much dismisiveness of GLBT people on DU is due to an idea that we are privileged

[mondo joe]

and need to be taken down a few notches?

I remember reading about perpetrators of violence against gays, and they uniformly had an attitude that gays were better off than they were and needed to be brought down. There were comments about gays having good jobs and nice cars and undeserved good fortune, as justifications for beating gays, and worse.

I sometimes get a sniff of the same attitude on DU, when people decide to be dismissive of GLBT people and our rights. The fact that some gays are well off is the only perception, and the fact that there are poor GLBT people, that gay kids are driven to homelessness and suicide, and the double burden of being a GLBT person of color are all out of the picture.

What think you?

Does the perception that we are privileged and need to be brought down play a part in dismissive attitudes on DU?

[madeline_con]

1. Other, I didn't realize DUers had a dismissive attitude toward you.

I'm sorry you're getting that. It sucks if you're being treated like crap. :hug:

[yardwork]

3. Yeah. Posts like this are pretty common around here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8018188&mesg_id=8018694

Yes, I'm a bigot because I don't think you are going to die during the inauguration.

Everyone around you is Judas. Enjoy your cross.

[yardwork]

2. Some, definitely.

There are many, many posts on DU accusing gay people of "caring only about our pet issue" as if we were somehow immune from every other problem affecting the country. We're not perceived as ordinary human beings with the same feelings and thoughts as everyone else. There's no understanding that we are also small business owners, people working in cubicles with no job security, laborers working outside with few protections, etc. etc.

Last night a post was deleted - but the poster not banned - that included a line about gay peoples' "vile bigotry" being responsible for Proposition 8.

[xchrom]

4. i had to vote large part.

i really think it has something to do with a mythological concept of gay men. gay white men specifically.

[mondo joe]

5. I agree. I'm down for a large part.

[jonnyblitz]

6. the far right claims this in their anti-gay literature, or they did

in the 90's when i followed it more. Here at DU lately I think the resentment stems from us raining on their Obama happy parade. they want to be here at DU backslapping each other and doing picture threads, not fighting over what we are fighting over. we are ruining their good time, or election afterglow (as priyanka put it), and HOW DARE WE? this is what i believe.

[QC]

7. In some cases it comes from a fear that someone might deprive the fearful one

of his place at the very pinnacle of the Great Hierarchy of Victimhood.

It's the single most counterproductive thing "progressives" do: sitting around squabbling with one another about all the finer points of how people have been done dirty.

While we do that the oppressors do their dirty work unopposed.

[mondo joe]

9. Oh, Sing Out Louise!

Absolutely.

[QC]

10. You know, it's about time for lunch.

Wonder what I should fix?

[mondo joe]

13. Ham is good this time of year.

[QC]

14. Of course! And I've got some real nice basmati I can serve it with. n/t

[yardwork]

16. Marital issues.

[Chovexani]

40. On feminist blogs they call this Oppression Olympics

And it's all too pervasive.

[joeybee12]

8. Some...I wouldn't put a percentage on any one reason...

...seems to be a lot at play as to why they would feel this way. This is certainly a part of it.

[bluedawg12]

11. Large part.

The idea of gentrification has come up.

And every time someone mentions we have bigger issues, such as health care and the economy, they completely miss the point that GLBTQ's have the same issues and bigotry to face.

Excellent question.

edit: typo

[madeline_con]

12. Thanks for pointing that out.

It may well be lost on some. I was damned disappointed when the ban went through in FL. I guess the small minded meddlers won. :(

[QC]

15. You mean you don't get a big trunk full of gay dollars every week?

Oops...maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that while they are around!

[dipsydoodle]

17. I am certainly not dismissive of you,

neither am I homophobic or bigoted. I'm just sensitive to the minority of you who respond in a totally offensive manner to some posts which may infact be intended, occasionally misguidedly, to be constructive.

edit to remove four equally tragic spelling mistakes

[mondo joe]

19. Your dismissiveness is appreciated. NT

[bluedawg12]

25. I don't see that you are equally sensitive

to those who repsond to gays "in a totally offensive manner to some posts which may infact be intended, occasionally misguidedly, to be constructive."

[dipsydoodle]

31. My other comment wasn't directed to any posts

on this board. I just happened to answer a question here and the other comment was related to posts which have arisen on GD and GD : Pres.

[percussivemadness]

18. I think anyone who is dismissive of the LGTB community

needs to get a reality injection. Whilst not generalising, unlike the atrocities committed against the "black" community, the vast majority of gay people I know tend to be white, middle class and inherently decent people. It is easy for the straight community to support civil rights for the "black" community, because they aren`t perceived to be like us (stupid as that sentence may first appear). However people need to learn their history. In Nazi Germany, one of Hitler`s first targets was the gay community with the infamous paragraph 175 in 1935. Why does this matter? I remember studying a book for my German A-Level, called Der Jude, a brilliant piece of work where the author demonstrates how the alienation of a people doesn`t necessarily start with the obvious demonisation. By depriving the LGBT community of a basic human right, by appointing to an inauguration a person who supports that, society in effect is condoning the creation of a second class citizenry. This leads to a very slippery slope.

Bob Marley once said, "the colour of a mans skin has no more importance than the colour of his eyes", the same can be applied to sexuality. However, and what the numerous straight community appeasers of Obama`s decision forget is, that by allowing the definition of society by classification of "sexual preference", something that we all partake in, we are on a dangerous road to puritanism and fundamental theocracy. The path is there for all to see. First its the LGBT community, next it will be the straight people who choose not to get married at all, next it will be the divorced people. By drawing this distinction time and time again, we eventually get a population of "good nazis", and again, history shows us what happens next.

Diversity needs to be celebrated, fundamentalist bigotry needs to be ostracized, the line in the sand has been drawn, irrespective of whether you like Obama or not (I still support him, but with a lot more trepidation than I previously had), this is not an issue that can be compromised on IMHO

[readmoreoften]

21. If the majority of LGBT people are white, it's only because the majority of America is white.

If the majority of LGBT are middle class, that's because 'middle class' is the moniker that most Americans go by. The majority of LGBT people in Mexico are Mexican. The majority of LGBT people in a latino community in the US would be latino. We're not more prevalent in one culture than in another, although certain cultures represent us more than other cultures.

[percussivemadness]

33. that was the point...well done for comprehending it...

[readmoreoften]

20. The creation of us as "the elite" is similar to the scapegoating of the left as "latte liberals"

and it comes from the same source--the right wing. This is a huge issue for us, I believe. The MSM only tend to show rich white gay men because the MSM represents the rich, white folks, and men. We are characterized as "the petty bourgeois who want to take over the world." We are "the hairdressers of the stars" and "actors" and "rich corporate careerists who have time to kiss ass because we don't have kids."

The reality that gay men earn less than straight men
The reality that 40% of hispanic lesbians have children
The reality that 33% of teen suicides are LGBT even though we're supposedly only 2-10% of the population (depending on who you listen to)
The reality that slightly less than half of homeless children in NYC are LGBT kids...

All of this is lost on most people who hold total divided consciousness regarding us. As youth, we're suicidal, homeless, abused, discriminated against, and lonely, but somehow we channel all this into a will to power (or at least entertainment industry power): we will be hairdressers to the stars, we will be actors. All gay men are the guys on Queer Eye. All lesbians are Rachel Maddow or some image of a sexy aggressive cop from a cop show. All transgendered people are Ru Paul, and the glamour of urban drag culture reflects some sort of fabulous wealth. Other transgender people are "men who want to usurp female power" (Janice Redmond) or perverts or tragic psychologies. Transmen don't exist. But if they did they'd be rich.

[mondo joe]

22. And Jews. Jews have long been targetted as being more well off, having more power

and influence.

[bluedawg12]

23. The stereotype is being perpetuated to this day.

If I recall Ms. Cannick wrote about how little concern she had for gay marriage right after PropHate8 passed, because it was not her problem, she had real concerns: poverty, homelessness, etc.

The perception for some is that gay rights is a white, affluent, predominantly male (yes there are some lesbians they note- but generally the screed is against the stereotypical gay male).

White Gays Guide to Dealing with the Black Community: Chapter 4: STFU Already


"Take this much to heart…your anger with Warren isn’t going to win you any fans in the Black community and only further illustrates a superiority complex that dictates the needs of white gay men and women are more important than the ushering in of a new Administration and the hope of millions for better days. It also says that the lives of Black gays are still not as important to you as your right to get married."
http://www.jasmynecannick.com/blog/?p=3298

[Behind the Aegis]

27. Then there are those like me...

...gay Jews. WE CONTROL EVERYTHING!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

So, to all you bigots, if you ever come home, the house has been tastefully decorated and you feel guilty about re-arranging a thing...you have been targeted by the "gay Jew!" WE make things pretty and nice, and then make you feel guilty about it!

:evilgrin:

[bluedawg12]

29. I thought it was the banks.

I keep asking mrsbluedawg if her peeps control the banks, why are we working for a living? :evilgrin:

She never asks me about Catholics and banks. :+

But, tonight we light the Chanukah candles for the 22nd year in a row as a couple, so things can't be all bad, except for my singing every year. ;-)

Happy Chanukah to you and yours Behind the Aegis. :hug:

peace-

bd12

[Behind the Aegis]

32. Happy Chanukah to y'all as well.

My Tony cat says...party on! Let the light lead your way!




Think we should change this one to "GAYS! GAYS! GAYS!" ?



:hug:

[bluedawg12]

36. I got to see the kitty and the pups over at the Channukah thread

beautiful!

:hi:

[mondo joe]

34. Oh yeah. Hey, would you use your flipping weather machine to give me a break in Seattle?

I have shopping to do!

[Creideiki]

24. We're privileged and "can pass"

if we would only want to so as not to intimidate people.

[bluedawg12]

26. We can pass for about 13 seconds on sight, some of us, maybe

but the moment we interact with someone, who we are, how we live, all come out right quick.

For those hunting for gays, job recuiters, bigots, it takes but a question or two followed by the "look."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x87771
Gay Myth #1 “Passing.”

[mondo joe]

35. IMO, only someone who has never thought seriously about GLBT issues thinks passing is

a good thing - for those who can do it.

But that's part of the ignorance.

[LeftCoast]

28. Same concept as being an "uppity negro"

The dominant group often responds to demands of equality this way

[Magrittes Pipe]

30. No, I don't think so. I just think there are a bunch of fucking bigots here.

[noamnety]

37. I originally voted "some"

But the more posts I read, the more I think it's higher. I honestly think they view gay marriage as being about the right to have the ceremony, not about the right to have health care, social security benefits, military spouse benefits (if DADT gets repealed), on and on and on - in short, all the things that are taken for granted when you are part of a family struggling to survive. The attitude seems to be that you must be in a position of privilege if your top concern is planning a wedding (because it's viewed as "planning a wedding" as opposed to managing a life).

I'm a little young to remember how this was in the 60's. Were there people spewing the same thing about the Montgomery Bus Boycott, being dismissive of the issue of segregation? To me, where you sit on a bus can potentially be reduced into dismissiveness far easier than the right to marry ... but people understood (or understand now?) that the issue was major. I never heard anyone say "it's 15 minutes on a bus, who cares what seat you're in so long as you get where you're going, get over it."

[jonnyblitz]

38. the bus analogy in the last paragraph is good.

I remember in the 90's some of the right wing ant- gay propaganda passed around by the religious right cited a poll that asked the income level of the readership of a particular magazine. it was a magazine catering to an upscale gay crowd, not representative of the gay population in general and they continuously used that poll result to claim gays have money thus they are looking for special rights when they are already privileged. i am probably being a tad bit sloppy in my telling of this because it's off the top of my head and from awhile back (plus i am tired) but that was the gist of it. its sounds sort of like what anti-semites say about jews. i started getting political in the 90's so i used to monitor the right and their tactics. I don't so much now.

[Jamastiene]

39. and what is the most fucked up about it is...my ass is dirt poor.

I live in the Bible Belt, the south, in one of the top 4 most impoverished counties in my state...and I'm considered poor even by many people here inside this county.

I want my money tree, DAMMIT!