RetiredTrotskyite
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:11 PM
Original message |
More Words Of Witlessness From The Fundies |
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Found this on "Fundies Say The Darnedest Things":
i do not consider fags human, i will no longer argue and communicate with them. i do not argue with dogs and cats, i consider dogs and cats superior than fags. the homosexuals are out of control and swiftly bringing the demiss of our once proud, one nation under GOD country. GOD BLESS ARKANSAS!! they have a new law in 2009 that does not allow fags and dykes the right of adopting, which needs to be enacted in 49 more states!!
This is what freedom of speech for haters in this country has led to.
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:13 PM
Response to Original message |
1. And it's what we have to protect |
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The most hateful speech requires the most protection.
Very important to remember that.
And, along the way, make sure the light shines bright on those imbeciles.
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RetiredTrotskyite
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
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The free speech of fundies to incite hatred and to get us beaten and killed is fine...maybe I should advocate the killing of fundies.:sarcasm:
And as for makinhg sure the light shines bright on these imbiciles, well, good luck with that.
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Maven
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
7. Speech that advocates imminent unlawful action can be punished. |
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The poster you're responding to oversimplified.
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
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I said exactly what I meant. I did not say that all speech was protected, nor did I advocate hateful speech.
I am a firm believer in free speech. I believe that those who espouse things I find distasteful are just as free to do that as I am to do otherwise, as I am not to listen to them.
It's a very simple matter.
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Maven
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
6. That's not entirely true. |
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Speech intended to incite violence is not protected by the First Amendment, nor should it be.
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
10. Who said anything about inciting violence? |
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I said "hateful speech." Of course not all speech is protected by the First Amendment, but the post that was put up here didn't advocate violence; it was simply disgusting.
That's what I was responding to. Nothing more.
The matter of speech that incites violence is a whole different matter.
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keepCAblue
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
12. Canada has the right priorities |
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Canada does not put freedom of speech above their own equal protection clause, as does the U.S. Canada, unlike the U.S., "gets" that hate speech which incites violence against other citizens is damaging to the whole of society and equates to criminal behavior.
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
14. Freedom of speech doesn't interfere |
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with the Equal Protection clause of our Constitution.
It's well-placed law here in the US that certain speech is not protected. The old canard, "You can't yell 'FIRE!' in a crowded theater" was the standard that got the ball rolling in terms of exempting certain speech.
That phrase from the Canadian law is so vague - in my humble opinion - that it would be tied up in US courts for thirty years before an adequate rendering of it could be made.
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dsc
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:15 PM
Response to Original message |
2. did you cut and paste, or retype? |
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I am not one to be a grammar and spelling NAZI but wow.
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RetiredTrotskyite
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
3. It was a Cut and Paste |
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Unlike a certain redneck I went to school and have a reasonable grasp of spelling.
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Maven
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:26 PM
Response to Original message |
4. We just need more dialogue with these people. |
saracat
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
8. Yeah but it is "different" when they talk that way about race! Sheesh. |
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And of course, women are really low on the food chain as well. But all we need to do is "reach out to them. Think about how far that nice Rev. Warren has come. He will even feed poor folks if they convert!:sarcasm:
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
11. You've got to let them have their say, |
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as distasteful as it may be.
If they can be silenced, so can we. That's an ugly and slippery slope that shouldn't be traveled by anyone.
It's hard, I know, but it's vital for our Constitutional rights to remain intact. God knows they've been assaulted badly enough these past eight years.
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saracat
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
13. Who said anything about "silencing " them? Not me! |
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Edited on Tue Jan-06-09 04:56 PM by saracat
I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of civil rights only for some.
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
15. I am not following you |
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Whose civil rights are being denied by someone who puts forth crap like that in the original post?
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RetiredTrotskyite
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Tue Jan-06-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
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that assholes like this are inciting others of their ilk to beat and kill GLBT people.
And thank Goddess for Canada! They know how to keep their goddamned fundies on a short leash.
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
21. That's a real stretch |
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if you want to make that piece of trash into something that would be considered unprotected speech. I'd argue that it's nothing but the ranting of a bigoted idiot, but it hardly could be construed as "inciting violence."
Your last sentence would read badly, wouldn't it, if it went like this:
"They know how to keep their goddamned queers on a short leash,"
or like this:
"They know how to keep their goddamned Jews on a short leash,"
or like this:
"They know how to keep their goddamned women on a short leash."?
Your speech is hateful, but I would do everything I could to defend your right to say such things.
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RetiredTrotskyite
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Tue Jan-06-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
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I am sick and fucking tired of the fucking fundies being allowed to run rampant in this country. Maybe Canada did, too. The longer I live in this country, the more certain I am that I want to move to Canada.
And you're right--I hate fundies, purely and simply hate them.
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
23. Do you think that the person who spewed |
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that crap in your original post would be considered a fundie?
I surely do understand your feelings about them - they are a horrid bunch, I agree. But what I saw in that post you put up was just ignorance, fear, and vitriol.
Or did I miss something?
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RetiredTrotskyite
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Tue Jan-06-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
27. And What Do You Think Fundamentalism Does? |
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Produce erudite, educated individuals. This little shit is just more vocal about it than most.
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
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where did you find "fundamentalism" in that post?
I fail to see it.
Ignorance has many mothers and fathers - not just fundamentalist christianity, but lots and lots of places.
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bluedawg12
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Tue Jan-06-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
37. Umm...I found the word "fundamentalist," in the OP. |
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It's right there: "Found this on "Fundies Say The Darnedest Things"
Actually wisdom has many mother's and father's, ignorance is an orphan. No one ever seems to want to lay claim to it.
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Two Americas
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Tue Jan-06-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
17. that is not the issue |
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No one is talking about "silencing" anyone. The issue is whether or not all "beliefs" should be taken seriously and included and showcased in some misguided "post-partisanship" effort.
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
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Yes, the word "silenced" came up, and I was responding to that.
But, your second sentence. I've read it several times now, and I do not understand what it says.
What are you trying to say?
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Two Americas
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Tue Jan-06-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
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I find it difficult to believe that you don't understand.
The OP may have been better advised to say "give a platform" rather than "give free speech" to bigotry. Was that what mptivated you to post about this?
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
26. The OP didn't say "give free speech....." |
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We have free speech - it's one of our rights. No one "gives" it to us.
So, the OP doesn't come into this at all.
I'm serious, yes. My question was an honest and sincere one. I do not know what your second sentence meant. I'm sorry that you're having trouble understanding that. What about my query do you not understand?
Let me try it this way, since you're having trouble:
Can you say your second sentence a different way so that someone else can understand it?
Thank you.
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Two Americas
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Tue Jan-06-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
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The OP said "this is what freedom of speech for haters in this country has led to."
Of course rights are not given. I didn't say they were.
You are familiar with the posters here with whom you are now arguing. You are aware of the debate about including leaders from the religious right in the discussion, you know about the debate over giving them a platform. You know that many here believe that the message of the religious right is a sanitized and dishonest and deceptive version of the ugly sentiments that the OP cited in that quote. You know that many here see a connection between elevating and legitimatizing leaders of the religious right and encouraging the hateful speech cited in the OP, and a connection between that hateful speech and violence perpetrated on GLBTQ people. You may disagree with those ideas, but you cannot claim to be unaware of them with any credibility.
Therefore, I find it difficult to believe that you do not understand what I wrote.
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
31. I know none of those posters, |
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since I never look at screen names but only at the posts. So, sorry, but whatever the familiarity should have meant, it means nothing to me.
Now, for all the things you say I "know," I must tell you that you are wrong about all of it.
The debates about Rick Warren - I assume that's what you're talking about - got very little of my interest, since I thought it was a tempest in a teapot. A bad selection, yes, I thought so - but also a smart political move on Obama's part, and what we should expect from him, since he did preach unity as a candidate.
So, since you chose to do the inestimably confounding act of telling me what I "know," I am still in the dark about what you meant by the indecipherable second sentence.
How, I must wonder, do you know what I "know"? What a strange and worthless stance to take.
However, this has gone on too long, and your thinking is far too muddled for me to have any further interest.
Best of luck to you. Here's hoping your free speech rights are always protected. I'll do everything I can to make sure they are.
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Two Americas
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Tue Jan-06-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
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You never look at who you are responding to, had no idea that this discussion could be related to the Warren controversy, and can't imagine how I would know that you are familiar with the posters here and their ideas.
Well, that would explain it.
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Tangerine LaBamba
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Tue Jan-06-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
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you can understand what I write, but your words just sort of dribble around and go nowhere?
Yes, you just restated what I wrote. Does that enlighten you?
Is that even possible, do you think?
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saracat
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Wed Jan-07-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
38. Odd this type of post used to appear with frquency in another Forum on DU. |
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Edited on Wed Jan-07-09 03:06 PM by saracat
Your observation is spot on!
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Starry Messenger
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Tue Jan-06-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
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I just found this today--it's dated Jan 6th. '09. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/06/lorence.warren/Written by the prince of a fellow who sued to have all of the 2004 San Francisco same-sex marriages invalidated. Yeah, sounds like he's really had a change of heart. Fucker.
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Zuiderelle
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Tue Jan-06-09 04:58 PM
Response to Original message |
16. I wonder if he was invited to the inauguration. |
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We're a diverse nation after all, and we need to represent ALL Americans. We're not going to agree on everything.
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RetiredTrotskyite
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Tue Jan-06-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
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Maybe you should check out "That Satan Clause" again.
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Zuiderelle
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Tue Jan-06-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
24. But we are now the party of inclusion of everyone... except gays of course |
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So this guy fits right in!
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Two Americas
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Tue Jan-06-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
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We must respect their "beliefs" even though we disagree with them. Obama must be the president of ALL Americans - the bigots, the liars, the right wing extremists, the wealthy and powerful few, and the complicit and cowardly Democrats. The rest of us - the other 90% of the population - need to "get over it" if we want a seat in the back rows of the "big tent." If we don't quit our crying, they will give us something to really cry about.
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Toasterlad
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Tue Jan-06-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message |
35. I Hear That Guy Is a Lock for Head of Child Services. |
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God bless this inclusive country!
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bluedawg12
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Tue Jan-06-09 09:54 PM
Response to Original message |
36. This is a hatefull, hatefilled speech. |
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It does not directly incite violence, as the words seem to be somewhat carefully chosen to sound like political speech, which is protected.
However, I got RetiredTrotskyite's point loud and clear, this type of sentiment, creates a climate of hate against gay people, dehumanizes us and that does lead to violence and hate crimes.
No one ever commites violence against gays or lesbians, shouting, "I disagree with your politics."
It is usually accompanied by slurs and hatefilled language, it just creates a climate for intolerance and violence.
If one were to substitute gay slurs with any other ethnic or religious minority today, such language would create a strong reaction from the target group. That's how we feel about it too.
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