Things that make me go...WTF in F?

[bluedawg12]

Did anyone just catch Jon Stewart?

Jon Stewart of the Daily Show just interviewed Nathaniel Frank, the author of Unfriendly Fire - How the gay ban undermines the military and weakens America a book about the consequences of DADT to our military and the discharge of over 12,000 military members, many of whom were considered “mission critical” personnel,
since this ill conceived law went into effect.

This is the most appalling thing I have heard in a while. After discharging hundreds of Arab speakers and translators who were outed as gay as a result of DADT, the US intelligence intercepted a message from Al Queda on September 10, 2001 and it read, “tomorrow is zero hour.”

Due to the shortage of Arabic speakers, even as gay Arabic speakers were being discharged to create that shortage, the message was not translated until September 12, 2001.

Frank also said, that many of top brass who were involved in that policy making admitted that the data wasn't there and they were acting on their own beliefs ( insert: prejudices) and now regret it.

The policy also destroyed unit cohesion by forcing members to live a lie and then further damaging cohesion when they were yanked out of their unit for discharge.

..........

http://www.unfriendlyfire.org/

Unfriendly Fire, by Nathaniel Frank, is the definitive story of “don’t ask, don’t tell” written by the nation’s most widely-recognized expert on the policy.

Drawing on decades of research on gay service and hundreds of exclusive interviews with policymakers, government officials, academics and service members, the book shows the cruel and unaffordable costs of the current gay ban.

Praise for the bookThis book lays out clearly, fairly, dispassionately and accurately the terrible cost to our national security of this insane policy. It brings light not heat to the debate - and the light makes change seem not just necessary but urgent.Andrew Sullivan, blogger at - The Daily Dish and author, The Conservative Soul

Frank makes a compelling case not only that there has been a shift within our society, but that the time has come to look beyond our preconceptions and focus on capabilities. This book should be mandatory reading for anyone with an interest in the state of our society or the readiness of our military. - General John Shalikashvili, former Chair, Joint Chiefs of Staff, U.S. Armed Forces



edit: usual letters, vowels and things.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. Isn't that wonderful?

Thankfully, the political keepers of our country's good christian conscience were very good at keeping all of us safe from those gay military folks. Who knows what might have happened if they'd been allowed to live like regular human beings and keep their jobs?

Oh, wait. We already know what happened, don't we?

(Do I really need to insert that "sarcasm" thingie here? Really?)

[bluedawg12]

3. Why keep Arabic and other middle eastern speakers

when you have just declared war on a tactic and there is a shortage of said talent?

Brilliant!

History will be amused at the whacky shrub years and Molly Ivens is in heaven laughing her ass off.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

4. Funny you should mention Molly ......

I'm reading "Who Let The Dogs In," and some of her essays in this collection go back to the late eighties.

My god, did she ever nail every one of these stinking rightwingnut fuckers! As only Molly could. She had Newt Gingrich's number BIG TIME, and she reviled Ronnie Raygun. She certainly warned the whole country against Chimpy Fucknuts, even as he was running for Governor of Texas.

I'm reading it slowly, because I want to be with Molly as long as possible. Molly, Hunter S. Thomson - imagine what they'd be writing these days.................................

[bluedawg12]

8. St. Molly did call shrubs outcome with chilling accuracy

what he did to Texas, she warned, he would do to the nation.

Today's news: 1,200 homeless living in Sacramento, no water, no sanitation, no security force, living in tents, a mile walk to buy a bottle of water and 50 new arrivals everyday.

Who are these poor wretches?

Why they noted with a chipper little lilt on the media outlet, these are middle class Americans, former construction workers, tile setters, out of work, families and pet dogs living in tents.

Heck of an eight years junior, great job on the daily PDB and now the 9-10-01 intercept, opened on 9-12-01?

Gosh, who could have known?

Molly.

We didn't listen.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

10. It's so disturbing......

She so nailed him, and it's just so horrible that no one - well, we did - believed Molly. She had his number, with her usually perspicacity.

Then, I remind myself that he stole the election, both times, and - no - it doesn't make anything better.

I miss her and Ann Richards so much.

[bluedawg12]

13. Those were two tough Texas women.

I think we all miss them.

What Rove did to Richards he then did on a larger scale to this nation, by playing wedge politics and the cultural war.

'Ceptin, Miss Ann wasn't even a lesbian. Not that facts mattered to dumbya while clawing his way to the top.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

16. That reminds me ........

Why is that fat fuck all over the media all the time? He's the only one from the previous eight years who is consistently out there, and I fucking resent it.

Maybe that testimony about the firings will send him underground.

[bluedawg12]

20. Why are any of them all over the media?

Palin is inexplicable as is Jindal and Steele, at least Joe the rightwing shill is out of the picture for a while.

[BrklynLiberal]

26. I find it appaling that waste of protoplasm actually has a position in the media now...

of course, it is on FAUX NOISE..but still. To know that he has a pulpit from which to continue to spout his bile and evilness...
I have blocked that station from my TV..but I watch other shows that insist on showing bits of his pompous fulminating...

[bluedawg12]

30. They're throwing pork to their hungry, demented, dwindling base.

:evilgrin:

Of course the pork de gras is Rush.

[tbyg52]

39. He was on the Georgie S. talking head show weekend before last.

I screamed bloody murder, not that ABC cares. And I think he may still have a column in Newsweek. (I don't know for sure because I canceled my subscription and told them why.)

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. I do love Enlightened Leadership.

Too bad none of it can be found inside the walls of The 5-Sided Perpetual Goat Fuck. Something tells me the ones coming up, a few years out from flag rank, are just as bad, if not worse.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. Here's my favorite Pentagon story:

My friends, Michael and Daniel, who have been together for almost thirty years, throw two big Xmas parties every year. One straight, one gay. They are marvelous occasions, done up FOR DAYS.

Anyway, one year, they talked me into going to their Gay Party. What the hell, I said. OK.

Now, we all live in Northern Virginia, just minutes from the Pentagon, and Michael is retired Air Force. Daniel is a lawyer. Civilian.

When I walked into the Gay Party, my first thought was that my great tits were absolutely worthless that night. Not a blink.

Lots of really nice guys, though, another gorgeous party. Besides one server, I was the only female there.

It was a great big party, over a hundred people, and probably half of the attendees were military, almost all of them stationed at the Pentagon. The couples making out were everywhere, and the guys who were in business suits, with big gold wedding rights, were the horniest of all.

Don't ask, don't tell, my beautiful - and, that night, completely ignored - ass.............................

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

7. Tangy, stop with the...

Descriptions of your physical attributes. As the token flaming heterosexual here, and living, as I do, in a social gulag...well, you are making me all moist and whatnot. Show some mercy, woudja? ;-)

You would understand if you ever saw this place. "Tedium" doesn't even scratch the surface.

[bluedawg12]

9. Oh, please

she had me at, "my great tits." :evilgrin:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

12. Those were the days......

Did I forget to mention that that all took place long ago?

(throw Leftie over shoulder, looking around for waders..........)

[bluedawg12]

15. My greatest regret

was a party, back in the day, when Tennessee Williams was in town and scheduled to drop by my friend Allen's duplex.

Dear Tenn got drunk and was a no show, Allen our host became one of the first names on the quilt and I grew up, grew older and have only the memory of a brush with greatness.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

22. OK, now I'll really tell you a story.........

Just to show you how dimwitted Tangerine was as a young woman.

We were vacationing in Key West - early 1970s - and I had a fight with my then-husband. I walked out of the room, out of the hotel, and just walked. No idea where I was, but I didn't care. It was early in the morning, eight o'clock, something like that.

I was so sad - the marriage would end several years later - and so young and so far away from home with a man who was - I'm SERIES - a prick. I sat down on a curb in a nice, quiet neighborhood, and just cried. There were no people around, so it was all right to sit there crying. A young woman in a tank top and cutoff jeans shorts, sneakers.

A man came out of the house behind me. He gently tapped my shoulder, and then stepped off the curb and looked at me. He was handsome, in an older, sort of decadent way. He had the nicest accent and kind eyes. He asked me if I was all right. He called me "hon."

No, I wasn't all right, I told him, but I would be.

What's the matter, he wanted to know.

I had a fight with my husband, I said. He's cheating on me, and he feels guilty about it, so he takes it out on me.

Men, the nice man said.

I laughed then, and he said, See, things are better already. You want some coffee, hon?

We went into his back yard, walking around the pretty house where he lived. He went into the house after making sure I was comfortable on a nicely padded chair around a big round table with an umbrella in the middle.

He came out with two big glasses of orange juice. Here, he said, it'll make you feel better. All those tears, you must be dry.

I sipped it. LOTS of vodka in there. I did feel better.

A maid came out with a big tray, hot coffee, delicate white china cups and saucers, a bowl of butter, and warm Cuban bread. She set plates in front of both of us, and the nice man poured coffee for both of us.

I don't even know your name, I said. I realized I was starved.

Tom, he said.

We sat and talked as the sun went higher in the sky, and I finally wanted to get back to the hotel. Maybe my husband would be there, maybe not. Whatever happened, I felt better and Tom told me not to be so hard on myself, that it sounded like I was married to a real sonofabitch.

Tom was right. He was a real sonofabitch.

We hugged, and kissed each other goodbye, and I can still see him standing there, by the gate that was still open in front of his house. I turned as I walked away and waved again to him. It felt like a stranger had saved my life.

I had to ask people how to get back to the hotel, and then I realized I couldn't find his house again if I decided to go back and thank him again.

I was young. Then, one day, I picked up a copy of some magazine, and there was an interview with Tennessee Williams.

My friend for the morning, Tom.

[bluedawg12]

23. Now that's a great narrative!

Talk about Kismet.

There's something about Key West that can bring out the flip side of romance.

My trip circa the 70's was a minor disaster and I never even got to meet Tom.

The most romatinc setting with the wrong person is the worst.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

11. What's the emoticon

for "<snort>"?

Where are you that's so bad, and, gee, was that a description? I usually go into greater detail with my online conquests, as in:

Him: What are you wearing right now?

Me: Just the usual going-to-bed-thinking-of-you outfit.

Him: Describe it to me.

Me: Are you sure? It's not that interesting.

Him: No, no, tell me. I really want to know.

Me: Well, OK. Waders. A black leather push-up bra. Night vision goggles. My retainer.

Then, for some reason, the screen goes blank.

I think I knock them out with my hotness.............................

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

14. Waders and Night Vision Goggles??!!

Oh jeebus. Where's the emoticon for :faintingbench:?

Work pipe wrenches into that scenario and I am hopping into my car and heading south. Most likely in an exposition of complete, utter and humiliating futility, but what the hell. Go for the gusto.

[bluedawg12]

17. The retainer is kind of sweet.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. I know, I know.......

But you're just going to have to live with a photo. Tangerine is taken, and prizes fidelity.

But, for you:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

19. Mom?

Is that you, mom?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

36. Perfect, just perfect.........

I went off to sleep chuckling at that one, you masterful stud, you.

Tangerine was mildly aroused, she admits, but got all caught up in drooling and that was it for the night...................

[bluedawg12]

37. When you dream

do you count pink conservative piggies or progressive research fellows?

The answer may lead to shedding the night vision goggles and wadders and a better night’s sleep! :P


Oh piglet.



Dr. Nathaniel Frank

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathaniel-frank/nunn-the-wiser_b_106292.html

Nunn the Wiser?
Nathaniel Frank
June 10, 2008

Like other major Democratic candidates, Obama has come out clearly for ending discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation in military service. But none has been able to do so. Now, however, the tide may finally be turning. On the same day as Obama sealed the nomination, Sam Nunn, the former senator whose name has surfaced as a possible Obama running mate, publicly ended his opposition to openly gay service, a leap forward for the lawmaker who had been the principle Congressional sponsor of the gay ban back in 1993.

<snip>

Nunn said last week that "times change" and it is now "appropriate to take another look" at the policy.

<snip>


The question now is what is the future of the policy that even Charles Moskos once called "insidious," and that the former Judge Advocate General of the Navy has called "odious"?

<snip>


In his remarks about the gay ban last week, Sen. Nunn said any reconsideration of the policy should begin with "a Pentagon study."

<snip>
No one is against research, but all too often, such language is used as a delay tactic to sound reasonable while avoiding taking real action that could be warranted by what the latest research shows. After all, it was Nunn himself who, in spearheading opposition to gay service in 1993, said even then that the issue should be "studied" carefully and that no action should be taken "overnight."

During that battle...The key question, Nunn said in the dramatic Senate hearings he held in the spring of 1993, was not morality or fairness but military effectiveness.

<snip>

All of it sounded eminently reasonable, except that anyone with a modicum of experience in politics could see that Nunn used the "study" period not to assess the evidence in order to put the issue to an informed vote, but to build an arsenal of weapons to defeat the effort to lift the ban. Time was used not to learn, but to let opposition fester and grow. Studies were buried when they concluded the wrong thing. And hearings were stacked against Nunn's political opponents.

When Nunn found out that the planned testimony of retired Army Colonel Lucian Truscott III would describe the experiences of openly gay service members seamlessly integrated into their units, he removed him from the roster. When Nunn realized that the father of modern conservatism, Barry Goldwater, was also planning to testify that gays ought to be allowed to serve openly in the military, he replaced him too.

Concerns about military effectiveness certainly drove Nunn's efforts. But they also reflected what can only be understood as antipathy to gay people.

In 1984, Nunn backed Senator John Glenn's bid for the White House, citing his "courage" in expressing the "strongly held moral belief that homosexuals should not be the role models for our children."

Nunn dismissed two political aides because they were gay, and defended his actions by saying they could not work effectively on classified matters because their homosexuality made them a security risk.

Asked in 1993 if he believed that the heterosexual lifestyle was "morally superior to the homosexual lifestyle," Nunn answered that he was "not only saying that" but that "American family deterioration is one of the biggest problems we face in our culture," implying that tolerance of gays and lesbians was a leading contributor to the problem.

In the end, little changed for gay troops, and Nunn worked hard to derail even the minimal reforms that President Clinton continued to promote as he lost the battle to lift the ban altogether.

Fifteen years later, Nunn's had second thoughts. "I think 15 years go by on any personnel policy, it's appropriate to take another look at it," he said last week, to "see how it's working, ask the hard questions, hear from the military."

Nunn is now even suggesting that the law he championed was just the "beginning point," making it "possible for people to serve honorably in the military without lying on the application."

It's revisionist history at best: nowhere in the record did Nunn ever make the case that he was shepherding through a temporary law (although other players did view "don't ask, don't tell" this way).

And while it's true that gay recruits no longer have to lie on their enlistment applications, they continue to have to lie on a daily basis while serving -- any time a peer asks them the most basic question about their personal lives.

[bluedawg12]

21. Fiesty and assertive.

I like fiesty and assertive.

[Zuiderelle]

29. I have to ask... Why was this gay party exclusively male?

That stuff just bugs the shit out of me. Do they have no lesbian friends? Not one?

[bluedawg12]

31. Our crowd was mixed, gay m/f/bi and str8

I was the young tag along pup, dating the hot ex-str8 chick, they were the coolest.

My late friend Allen even had Nureyev stories. I was in awe, like a pumpkin at the ball with Cinderella.

It was a different time. It was pre-AIDS. Now I'm a married old dawg, I wonder what it's like these days.

I hope parties are mixed, it added a frizon of excitement. :evilgrin: You never knew who would end up with who, that night.

[Zuiderelle]

34. I've never in my life been to a big party that was exclusively lesbian.

Other than relatively small ones of a dozen or so people. A big yearly party thrown with all the hoopla described... it's unimaginable to me that there were no other women at the party, gay or straight.

I'm with you, an "old" :) married woman now, with a first-grader to boot. Not many wild and crazy parties in my life these days, but oh, the old days. Lots of memories.

[bluedawg12]

35. LOL and LOL.

The lesbians with rocking chairs and memories forum--opening soon. :rofl:

I'm with ya' kid, no regrets, but life is good as it is now, and as it is meant to be. :P

And I am not old either. Just experienced! :)

[bluedawg12]

6. An Officer and a Gentleman would never lie.

Just like KB&R paid taxes from their off shore haven. :rofl:

The fact that they lied about the data showing that gays were detrimental to military cohesion and sank to the level of their own personal bigotry, even to the detriment of the military, is a little oopsie of a secret coming out loud and clear now.

My guess is that the junior officers on the rise today were carefully culled according to the well known rightwing aptitude (litmus) test that worked so well for the DOJ firing of the attorney's.

Repug Plan: Grab knife, cut off nose, repeat with different body part.

They will need a much bigger rug to sweep the trash of the last eight years under.

[NMMNG]

24. Screw the nation, screw the world, screw humanity

So long as you get rid of Teh Gays. No logic, rhyme or reason with the RRRW. Just sheer anti-gay hatred.

[bluedawg12]

25. The rightwing has royally screwed up everything

the only thing they seem to have any success at is hate and gay baiting and gay bashing.

Maybe that's why they cling to it? And, of course, money. The repugs open their wallets for fear issues.

[BrklynLiberal]

27. I remember hearing about this instance of self-destruction not too long

after 9/11. It is horrifying to know that people were fired for no good reason..and as a result, we had to endure the tragedy of 9/11.
What punishment could possibly be adequate for those ignorant, stupid, shortsighted, self-righteous, hypocritical perpetrators?

[bluedawg12]

32. I knew about the firings of gay Arab speakers after 9-11

but, I did not know that they were doing before, and that it all impacted important intel.

Come to think of it, it made even less freaking sense to fire translators after 9-11.

Tragic all around.

[sui generis]

28. the same lesson over and over again

if you hurt your fellow Americans, you're hurting yourself.

Make it okay to fire someone based on sexual orientation and I can fire you for being straight, or presumably straight.

Keep gay parents from adopting and I can take away your natural kid eventually by claiming the parent is gay. Proving you're not gay is quite the inexact non-science, but accusations are pretty easy.

Get rid of gays in the military, get rid of 10% of the military.

Try to define gay and gay suddenly becomes less relevant except at some point in time - when you were more gay or less gay than you are now, including beer consumption and just giving it a whirl.

Bigots hurt themselves - after all it's the thing in themselves they hate but dare not admit, so they caterwaul and carry on about it in everyone else.

[bluedawg12]

33. I think the most rabid haters are the ones with underlying psychopathology.

The tepid ones are more likely lazy followers.

[bluedawg12]

38. Creators of Military Gay Ban Tell Author It Was "Based on Nothing"

http://www.palmcenter.org/press/dadt/releases/Creators+of+Military+Gay+Ban+Tell+Author+It+Was+%22Based+on+Nothing%22+

Creators of Military Gay Ban Tell Author It Was "Based on Nothing"
Definitive Book on “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” Out Tuesday; Speaking Tour Begins Today

SANTA BARBARA, CA, March 2, 2009 – Military officials exaggerated the threat to unit cohesion and ignored research and data when formulating the current policy on gay troops, according to the much-anticipated new book, “Unfriendly Fire: How the Gay Ban Undermines the Military and Weakens America,” out tomorrow.

The book, based on a a decade of research and hundreds of interviews, was written by Dr. Nathaniel Frank, senior research fellow at the Palm Center, and one of the nation’s most widely recognized authorities on gays in the military. Dr. Frank is appearing with Congresswoman Ellen Tauscher today at the Center for American Progress to discuss her proposed legislation to repeal the ban.

Publication of the book by St. Martin’s Press falls on the 15th anniversary of "don't ask, don't tell." Frank spoke to key military and political architects of the policy, many of whom acknowledge in the book that it was “based on nothing” but “our own prejudices and our own fears.”

General John Shalikashvili, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, tops the list of prominent leaders who have endorsed the "Unfriendly Fire," saying it “should be mandatory reading for anyone with an interest in the state of our society or the readiness of our military.” Congressman Patrick J. Murphy, a member of the House Armed Services Committee and the only Iraq War veteran in Congress, said Frank’s “timely book should put to rest any lingering doubt about whether ‘don't ask, don't tell’ is working—it's been a failure from day one and should finally be put behind us.”

The Palm Center has launched "Send UNFRIENDLY FIRE to Congress!" which is an online campaign to put a book into the hands of every member of Congress by this spring.

.........

More from the Palm Center
Fantastic work on DADT abd gay military history here:

http://www.palmcenter.org/programs

There is a link to the a video with Dr. Frank

"Unfriendly Fire: How the Gay Ban Undermines the Military and Weakens America."

http://www.palmcenter.org/events/dadt/evening_honor_allan_b_rub

>>An evening to honor ALLAN BÉRUBÉ
Start: 05/01/2008 - 6:00pm
End: 05/01/2008 - 8:00pm
Timezone: Etc/GMT-7
The Palm Center will co-sponsor a panel discussion and evening program to celebrate and reflect on the life of the scholar and community activist, Allan Bérubé. The event will be hosted by its other co-sponsor, City University of New York’s Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies (CLAGS), and will be held at CUNY’s Graduate Center in New York City on May 1. It will feature invited speakers and an open forum.

Bérubé, who died in December at age 61, was an independent historian and community activist, and author of the Lambda Literary Award-winning Coming Out Under Fire: The History of Gay Men and Women in World War II, which recounted the experiences of gay GIs from that war. His work brought to light the formative influence of wartime mobilization and military life on both gay culture and American society. Bérubé’s activism in the gay liberation movement started in the late 1960s, and in 1978 he co-founded the San Francisco Lesbian and Gay History Project. In 1996, he received the prestigious genius grant from the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, which allowed him to begin work on a history of gay men in the Marine Cook and Stewards Union. He is remembered not only for his pioneering work in casting light on the gay and lesbian past, but for his incisive contributions to working-class studies, and his passionate leadership of every community he inhabited...read more"

[mwei924]

40. That was a good interview. The guy was really articulate and funny too.

Jon's awesome as always.

[bluedawg12]

41. Great interview and jaw dropping truths.

Jon is so on the "side of the angels" and has been, even when it was dangerous to even question the powers that were.

[closeupready]

42. This is the missing link. In Bob Graham's book, "Intelligence Matters",

he mentioned the fact that the intelligence was in our hands prior to 9/11, but that for reasons which he either didn't know or refused to reveal, the translation simply didn't happen in time. This must be why. They were firing gay translators under Clinton's DADT policy.

[bluedawg12]

43. How many ways have bigotry and wedge issues damaged this nation?

Voting into office congressional repugs?

Creating a close call in the GE so that not once, but twice, dimson, could steal the vote?

By voting against "their own interests" in favor of wedge issues and the so called cultural wars, people voted not only against their own economic interests but also against national security interests and we were saddled with eight years of gross incompetance.

But going back even further to the Clinton years, the relentless diversion from governance to a sick focus on BJ's in the oval office, Whitewater and frivolous attacks for any number of useless reasons during the Gingrich years which led to fear of losing power and a need for a so called "compromise," such as DADT, arose.

The unintended consequences of gay baiting and gay hating and the orgy of right wing blathering about family values led to disaterous decisons to remove skilled personnel from our military ranks and for reasons having nothing to do with military cohesion and readiness, lies and manipulations by biogted pigs like Nunn,brought this disaster home to rooste when on 9-10-01 an important message could not be translated until it was a day late and over 3,000 lives short.

The irony is so rich it almost makes me believe that there is a concerned God watching over us and she is a lesbian with a wry sense of humor and a stark sense of righteous justice.

If this isn't bad enough, let's consider the re-emergence of swine like Starr, who diverted national energy and focus during Monica-gate and now reappears like a bloated cadaver after a flood in a cemetary, unwanted, pasty and foul, to ply his hateful craft in front of the CSSC.

[closeupready]

44. Yep. Railroaded out of the military for nothing more than doing what comes naturally to them.

Tell you what's perverted - it's laws like DADT that require service-minded people to lie - and for WHAT? To cater to homophobes and bigots. :mad: