Most Discussions of Gay Issues on DU

[QC]

consist of a bunch of straight people sitting around discussing gay people.

That is unfortunate.

[ruggerson]

1. and many of those same straight people

are actively hostile to the REAL LIFE gay people they have exchanges with on DU.

As opposed to the abstract discussions ABOUT gay people, where they can all clap each other on the back about how "tolerant" and progressive they are.

[QC]

2. Yeah, that's the *real* pisser of it all. n/t

[Jamastiene]

3. Or worse yet, pretending to be gay people.

:eyes:

[ruggerson]

4. or pretending to be

gay people of color.

[Ian David]

5. Seriously?

There are straight people who pretend to be gay?

You mean just online, or out in "the real world" as well?

[QC]

10. Right this very instant, there's a straight DUer on Pam's House Blend pretending he's gay

and declaring that last night's speech was the greatest advance in human civilization since the discovery of fire.

[NMMNG]

28. Are you saying

that you didn't have multiple orgasms over last night's speech? Why do you hat America?

[QC]

30. I tried, being a good American and everything, but I couldn't even manage

a semi-hardon.

It was a rerun of things we've heard from him again and again.

More pretty words.

[NMMNG]

32. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Anybody who thinks we're going to get more than talk from him is delusional.

[ropi]

46. so true..pretty words...

words words words...
(pardon my musical interlude moment)
but i am tired of his words... "show me.."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWtjLCvNelg

[QC]

47. Great musical choice! n/t

[ropi]

48. -wink-

thanks <3

[Neecy]

45. or almost as bad....

Using a rainbow flag avatar to hide behind when defending homophobic behavior and activity here.

[unblock]

what's unfortunate about it?

are you saying that gays on du should be more vocal, or that straights on du should be less vocal?

a majority of most populations are straight, and i rather suspect that a majority of du is straight.
better that we're having a dialog than not, i would think.

[ruggerson]

7. I think the OP is suggesting that straights LISTEN to the gays at DU

and understand that their views are derived from actual life experience.

Not meaning to speak for the OP, of course.

[QC]

8. That's exactly the point. There's very little listening, but lots of talk of "assless chaps"

and the like.

Call me crazy, but I think that a good way to learn about issues is to listen to those who have personal knowledge of those issues.

Dialogue requires that the communication go both ways.

[ruggerson]

11. I honestly don't think they want to communicate with us

we tend to bring too much reality into their world.

[QC]

18. For some people, we are a trendy cause. Lip service to our issues

is an easy way to prove their "progressive" street cred, like ordering fair trade certified organic coffee or talking about maybe someday buying a Prius.

But then, when the tiniest sacrifice is required--like admitting that maybe a politician to whom they feel a bizarrely intense personal identification might be just possibly a teensy bit wrong about something--it's time to drag out the ponies and poutrage and assless chaps.

I am not talking, of course, about genuine allies, of whom we have some wonderful ones here, but another sort of person, the kind Tom Payne called "the summer soldier and the sunshine patriot."

[unblock]

21. got it., i see your point.

and share your frustration at the as-yet-unfulfilled hope in many areas, equal rights for gays as one of many.

[QC]

24. Thank you! Your support is greatly appreciated. n/t

[mitchtv]

26. Yes, a 'niche 'right.

:banghead:

[unblock]

27. more like "evidence of a pattern"

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NMMNG]

44. And of those who are left

some of us wonder why we bother in what's become more a worship hall than a discussion forum. Don't rock the boat and certainly don't demand anybody follow through on their promises because it ruins the group orgasm over the latest picture thread.

[tbyg52]

60. Really.

That's why I'm seldom here, except occasionally to post what I posted and see how long it lasts.....

I feel sorry for any new person who comes here and believes it's really a progressive site.

[NMMNG]

65. I guess that all depends

on one's definition of "progressive".

[donco6]

6. They usually devolve into the most patronizing, infuriating threads.

I can hardly stand to read them anymore.

[QC]

9. Sounds like you didn't get your pony!

:sarcasm:

[donco6]

16. Grrrrr . . . I'm still digging through the pile of shit to find it.

So far, no luck. I have till 2017, though.

[cleverusername]

12. Not doing it right?

Many of the straight people on DU have gay, lesbian and transgendered friends and family members. We see people that we care about being hurt. It's not an abstract idea to us. Are we not doing it right when we support you?

[QC]

13. Good point, and I am not talking about people who are supportive.

I am talking about those nasty threads where self-declared "allies" talk about us like we're not in the room.

Ponies, poutrage, you people need to be more patient, etc. That stuff.

[Neecy]

14. Or even worse...

Sitting around getting angry with us for believing that a promise made should be a promise kept.

It got ugly during the Warren insult and it hasn't gotten much better. We're the "bad gays" while the "good gays" of HRC got lavishly praised in one of the most surreal threads I've ever read on DU last night. They were literally crying over how good Obama was being to us.

[QC]

15. That thread is one of the creepiest things I have ever seen in my life,

and I am no spring chicken.

[Neecy]

17. It was stunning.

I expected them to start posting in tongues.

[ruggerson]

20. It's one of two things

either they understand how offensive they're being and it's just in-your-face bigotry

or

they're utterly clueless

[Neecy]

23. I think it's more calculated than that

They're using that speech as a weapon to blunt any criticism of Obama, even though he has yet to follow through - or even lay the groundwork for following through - on these very same promises he made to our community during the campaign.

There was loads of cheering and positively orgasmic celebrating in LBN last night. Lots of "well, what will the haters complain about now?" crap. You'd think he had signed legislation mid-speech by the reaction. Lots of hatred for John Aravosis for daring to mention that words without a firm timetable were pretty meaningless. John, you see, is one of the "bad gays" here.

The hysterical crying and bizarre emotional reaction - which I don't believe was sincere for one second - that was in that GD/P thread last night was a hint of what's to come. People who know that we have legitimate grievances will look for anything to excuse, justify, and if needed, attack. I think it's all downhill from here, kids.

[Sapphocrat]

25. I started to laugh at the "crying and bizarre emotional reaction"...

...before it hit me just how fucked up the parallel universe really is. What if it was sincere?

That was a sobering thought. Scary, actually.

Someone tipped me off to that thread, and I was going to jump in, but I realized there was no point. When there's that kind of cognitive dissonance going on, there's no "reaching" anyone. Ever.

Has anyone read Bob Altemeyer's The Authoritarians?

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/%7Ealtemey/

It's about right-wing authoritarianism, by a scholar who has been studying the subject for more than 40 years.

"They are fearful and self-righteous and have a lot of hostility in them that they readily direct toward various out-groups. They are easily incited, easily led, rather un-inclined to think for themselves, largely impervious to facts and reason, and rely instead on social support to maintain their beliefs. They bring strong loyalty to their in-groups, have thick-walled, highly compartmentalized minds, use a lot of double standards in their judgments, are surprisingly unprincipled at times, and are often hypocrites. But they are also Teflon-coated when it comes to guilt. They are blind to themselves, ethnocentric and prejudiced, and as closed-minded as they are narrowminded. They can be woefully uninformed about things they oppose, but they prefer ignorance and want to make others become as ignorant as they. They are also surprisingly uninformed about the things they say they believe in, and deep, deep, deep down inside many of them have secret doubts about their core belief. But they are very happy, highly giving, and quite zealous. In fact, they are about the only zealous people around nowadays in North America, which explains a lot of their success in their endless (and necessary) pursuit of converts."

Remember, he's talking about right-wing authoritarians (and in the above paragraph, specifically about right-wing Christians). But that's not what I'm thinking of.

[Neecy]

34. The thing is, I get where they're coming from

If you aren't gay and don't care about core Democratic values, he's probably a terrific president. The guy is certainly likable, he has an attractive family, and is a great American success story. I don't personally dislike him.

I view the hardcore cheerleaders the same way I viewed the Bush loyalists when his presidency started going down the tubes - somewhat delusional, paranoid and defensive. Between the teabaggers, right-wing media and critics on the left it probably feels to them that he's under siege. They're circling the wagons and shooting at anyone who gets too close. I'm sure they're as hateful to those who want Gitmo closed, or the withdrawal in Iraq to begin sooner, the Patriot Act overturned etc.

We're a bigger problem for them because there's really no defense of this slow-walking of the things he promised us during the campaign. They may understand liberal philosophy and agree with it on some level but they don't understand us, which is why they think the HRC response should have silenced our criticism or why they suddenly are attacking Time Magazine for not being gay-friendly enough (!). They also know that without our support the Democratic coalition is in serious trouble so they're trying to browbeat us for our money, time, votes and support. It's a panicked response, and not an attractive one. They have no idea how they're offending us or the trouble this polarization is going to create for the Party down the road. As for me, if a Democratic White House, Democratic Senate, and Democratic House can't overturn DADT by the midterms I'm sitting them out, even if it goes against my self interest. If we need to send a message, there's long term gain for short term pain. It's not as though this majority is doing a damn thing for us as it is.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

43. "bizarre emotional reaction - which I don't believe was sincere for one second "

neither do I.

It was pathetic. Many of them hate GLBT'ers and they were mocking us.

[NMMNG]

33. So I wasn't the only one?

I swear sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between people here reacting to Obama and people having religious experiences.

[Sapphocrat]

29. Darlin', you just don't have THE BAM.

:P

[QC]

31. Sometimes I lie in bed at night and touch myself under the covers with my BAM hand.

[cleverusername]

19. Disturbing posts

QC, I haven't seen that thread and it troubles me that it exists. I'm not surprised, though. For a "progressive" site, there's a lot of alarming posts here.

[mitchtv]

49. this is no longer a progressive site

IMO, It is strictly DNC

[Starry Messenger]

22. I don't get it either.

It's seriously disturbing. I'm straight and I don't know anyone in real life who would talk to a gay person like that. There's rude and indifferent, and then there is seriously out of touch with human feelings. And over what? Politics? Some people are in need of a reality check.

[paulsby]

35. and most discussions of military issues

involve people who have never served in the military.

and most discussions of the prison industrial complex involve people who have never been to prison

and...

[QC]

36. Once again, you have missed the point. n/t

[paulsby]

37. once again, so have you nt

[donco6]

62. No, he hasn't.

But I hear someone dropped a pom-pom, run along and pick it up, will you?

[NMMNG]

38. They know what's best for us, and how/when we should go about getting it.

Just like our mommies and daddies, you know.

[Sapphocrat]

39. Of course they do. It's all about THEM, after all. n/t

[NMMNG]

40. Indeed

It's always about them and how our rights will affect them. We're so selfish when we don't realize that.

[Sapphocrat]

41. Good, I'm glad to know you've stopped hating America. n/t

[sui generis]

50. they're mostly in this with us, the ones who have an opinion

Where it stops for me is when the "they" know what's best for us, but hey, that's what we all have keyboards and voices for.

[foreigncorrespondent]

51. Oh you mean...

...the "Most of my friends are gay, and they are great people, but now is not the right time" crowd? All the while they enjoy the benefits that comes with being straight while denying everyone else the same rights.

Don't they even realize the law of attraction really is like attracts like? :evilgrin:

[sui generis]

66. Hush girl. We know what's best for you!

:P

You couldn't possibly know that yourself! Yeah. That crowd.

[foreigncorrespondent]

67. ROFL!

That's the crowd. LOL

Yes we silly gay people are just too stupid to know better, that is why we never amount to anything just like http://www.lambda.org/famous.htm">these people never amounted to anything.

[jonnyblitz]

52. Straight DUers just loooove the HRC and that wonderful Hillary

Rosen (:puke:) They sure do wish all teh gays were sufficiently worshipful and generou$ like THEM.

[TomCanyon]

53. I think we can all get along

at some point the input of everyone will be welcome. Remember, we have to convince a vast number of straight people. It's good to see where they stand, even if we do not agree with them.

[EFerrari]

54. I'm an outsider here and maybe an idiot but setting out to convince

the majority to give up a privilege never works.

I had to log out yesterday after reading related threads. None of what I wanted to post would have been helpful. At some point, I just wanted someone to pay for my revulsion headache and there's no profit in that.

[Neecy]

61. Idiot? Never.

And not an outsider. Relax, you're with friends here.

[Mari333]

55. I hope I have always been appropriate in my rants on DU...

if not, slap me upside the head, and tell me.

[ruggerson]

56. far more than appropriate

resolute, unflinching and wise.

[QC]

57. +1

[Sapphocrat]

58. You and Beth are irreplaceable treasures. n/t

[NMMNG]

59. I love your rants

:hi:

[Mari333]

63. omg. you made me cry. i love you all.

:hug:

[donco6]

64. You got it down.

Thanks. Your posts are always worth watching.