"Ladies first."

[Smashcut]

Today I was getting a burger around the corner from my house. Had my car parked in one of those underground garages that are ubiquitous in LA. I had gone to the gym earlier, was feeling pretty good and enjoying the great Southern California weather in a T-shirt and jeans. Things were pretty upbeat.

I left the restaurant and walked to the parking entrance, where I waited for the elevator that would take me downstairs to my car. As I waited, I saw two dudes walking up out of the corner of my eye and as they approached I heard one of them say "you like that?" For some reason I knew they were talking about me and I got a bad feeling.

I pulled out my phone (probably a nervous response) and started looking through the text messages.

"What's goin' on?" one of them said as they approached.

I looked up and got a look at them. The one who spoke to me had a week's worth of stubble and a belly.

Now having just moved here from NY I'm automatically suspicious when a stranger talks to me on the street. People in NY just don't do that unless they're trying to cause trouble. But, I figured, it's a totally different environment here and plus, I like to be outgoing.

Still, something was off. So I just replied, "How's it going."

We got into the elevator together and I hit the button for my floor after they did. Stubbly guy said something unintelligible (sounded like "got a lot goin on?" or something) which I didn't understand. "Sorry?" I said.

He waved toward the ground in an "after you" type of gesture.

"Ladies first," he said.

The elevator door closed behind me and my heart sank. I kind of gave an eyeroll to stubbly guy but stayed silent. What should I say? I can't let the prick get away with that. But I said nothing...realizing two things: it was 2 against 1 if things got violent and we were alone in a small, enclosed space. I felt vulnerable in a way that I hadn't back home: sure, I'd gotten a few homophobic taunts thrown at me in NY, but on a busy city street you can shout back with relative impunity.

Thankfully the door opened and the two of them got out. Stubbly guy's friend (pretty busted-looking himself) looks at me and says, "why don't you just slap him." To which stubbly guy replies, "I'd like to slap that" (meaning me I guess but who knows).

As the door closed again I shouted, "fucking bigots!" I felt demoralized. I have a pretty thick skin generally but something about situations like this still gets to me. What should I have done? Was a potential black eye or broken rib worth the personal vindication of dressing down this piece of crap? Maybe.

I still feel pretty shitty about it but I got to thinking how lucky I was too. I'm 28 and have spent most of my life in big cities. I've been relatively sheltered from this kind of harassment, whereas a kid growing up in a small town goes through it day-in, day-out. I'm nowhere near my quota!

Anyway, not that this forum is my personal diary but I wanted to write this down since normally I'd probably just internalize it and that sucks. I should note that looks-wise I'm not the toughest-looking dude but I don't dress flamboyantly at all...maybe some food for thought to those who think our movement is less important because we can "hide it."

Sorry for being long-winded and thanks for reading.

[Skittles]

1. let me teach you a lesson here

if you ever, EVER feel uncomfortable, GET OUT OF THE SITUATION IMMEDIATELY - do not try to be polite, do not try to rationalize, just GET THE FUCK OUT OF IT. WAY early in your story you say ".......For some reason I knew they were talking about me and I got a bad feeling" - THAT was your instincts kicking into gear - RIGHT THEN you should have WALKED AWAY. REMEMBER THAT NEXT TIME.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Excellent advice. ALWAYS trust your gut!!!

[Skittles]

9. it's advice I saw from a cop on one of those public access stations

he said they heard it over an over again - victims of crime who had "a bad feeling" early on but didn't want to seem impolite or racist or whatever - he said gut instincts should not be ignored but ACTED on immediately - it is indeed good advice

[Smashcut]

4. You're totally right.

i think part of it is being in a new place I'm not totally accustomed to yet. If he had made the remark before we'd gotten in I definitely would have been like, "it's all yours" and waited for the next one.

Dumb move.

[virgogal]

2. I would NEVER have gotten on the elevator with them.

[Kerrytravelers]

5. Take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I'm straight. I don't know your experience as a gay man. But I will say that please don't feel the need to put yourself in harm's way to fight the civil rights battle alone. The opposition is sick, violent and dangerous. In this situation, there is nothing you could say that would have made a difference to Mr. Stubbly. Perhaps Mr. Stubbly's friend wasn't quite in agreement with his pal and will say something later, but in that instance, it just won't accomplish anything to get into it with someone who is so brazen to be such a bigot and so cowardly they have to do it in an enclosed, small space.

Hang in there. :hug: And welcome to DU. :hi:

[Smashcut]

7. Thank you

for the advice and the welcome :)

I thought about what you said too...what difference would it have made to get into it with that guy? None. I guess I would have felt less taken-advantage-of is all. But ultimately it wasn't all that horrible...like I said, a lot of other people go through much worse, much more frequently.

Still, there's something about being attacked for something so personal that paralyzes you. The worst part is that no matter how tough I think I'm getting some douchebag like that can take the air out of my tires without even trying.

Thanks again. :hi:

[Warpy]

6. They told you all about themselves

and don't have the sense to be embarrassed. You felt powerless and that's why you're upset right now. Just remember it's not you, it's them, and people like that have a way of sabotaging themselves pretty thoroughly in life.

The only thing I would have done was punch "91" into the phone with my thumb on the final "1" in case they really got stupid and things turned violent.

In fact, they might have suspected you'd dialed someone already and that's what saved you.

Gay bashers also bash women, you know.

[Smashcut]

8. "Gay bashers also bash women, you know."

Yup...homophobia and misogyny are two sides of the same coin.

"You felt powerless and that's why you're upset right now."

TOTALLY. And now I'm like, how stupid, I should get over it.

Thanks for responding.

[beyurslf]

10. Gay or straight, male or female, if you instincts tell you it is wrong anfd to get out,

then by all means get the hell out now. Those instincts didn't pop up yesterday--that is millions of years of evolutionary thought in fight or flight kicking into gear and telling you the answer.

Cell phones can be your best friend. I have pulled mine out and called someone--anyone-- just to avoid getting on an elevator and walking down the same path as someone.

[Skittles]

11. I tell people to teach their children this

WALK AWAY WHEN YOU START FEELING UNCOMFORTABLE - those instincts are there for a REASON

[Smashcut]

15. True that

Probably why (somewhere in the back of my mind) I pulled out the phone.

Thanks :)

[whitewolfofarizona]

12. I'm With The Other Posters...

Always follow your instincts. I'm glad to know that you are OK. Fucking bigots.:hug:

[Smashcut]

16. Warm thanks.

:hug:

[niyad]

19. welcome to DU

[queerart]

13. Sending You Much Positive Energy.....

and a few Hugs as well.....


I "hope" you make a promise to "yourself", and to "all those taking the time to reply to your post".....


That you will NEVER put yourself in such a situation again...... cut and dry....


When someone walks up, and you know the situation is a problem..... you walk away.... it's not only the safe thing to do..... it's the right thing to do.....


I for one would be very proud of you for keeping yourself safe..... not to mention that it took great courage on your part to tell a crowd of strangers your story here on DU, when the situation is still very raw for you.....


Wishing You All Good Things My Friend.....

[Smashcut]

17. Thank you for the well wishes and you're totally right

normally I do walk away...certainly I should have taken a good look at those two but I was kind of lost in my own world till it was too late. Plus I like to think I can handle myself anyway. But you're right: better to be safe. Plus, as one poster before said...losers like that tend to sabotage themselves pretty good all on their own.

I did question myself before posting. Contrary to what this story might suggest I'm far from helpless and definitely not a crybaby...LOL. But now I'm glad I did because you guys have all been great and I feel much better about it. :hug:

[sui generis]

14. first thing is they wanted to provoke you into action

so they could justify getting violent. Kind of like a dog "rushing" a stubborn cat to get it to run.

Me, I like bashing gay bashers, kind of dexterish that way.

I would have said, you gay man bitches that's not how you make a pass at a guy, you ARE gay aren't you? Straight men don't do that shit to other dudes.

Okay, quick self-defense lesson for 1 against two in close quarters: If unavoidable, pick the leader of the pack, jam your foot in his gut as hard as you can like you're stomping. Even if he manages to grab at you he will be much weaker.

While his "follower" is trying to figure out what to do, do that same stomp on whichever of lacky's knee or thigh is closest to you with intent of breaking it. You should have both of them in a fairly disabled state very quickly without any fancy martial arts moves. If they're on the ground and still trying to come after you keep "stomping" whatever parts get close to you until the elevator door opens. The kinds of guys you described won't chase you.

Better of course to suck it up for name calling, but don't be willing for one second to take a physical attack without fighting back hard.

[Smashcut]

18. Definitely, they wanted to provoke me.

I like the Dexter reference. I've definitely been known to have a big mouth when it comes to public homophobes (once shouted down a bigoted preacher on the subway...that's another story ;) )

Thanks for the self defense tip...I'll keep that in mind if things ever do get rough and I can't talk it down. Just like in Fight Club: "Skinny guys fight till they're burger."

[niyad]

20. what everyone said--ALWAYS trust your instincts in situations like this.