Gay marriage is the most important issue facing Americans!

[Democrats_win]

By default! Because everything else has already been decided and Gay marriage is the only thing joe sixpack gets to decide. During the past 20 years Republicans went into a closet and decided that we will be addicted to Middle East oil and Americans will die for it. Joe sixpack doesn't have a voice in his future.

The background on this conjecture is Colorado's own Marilyn Musgrave who said that Gay marriage is the most important issue facing Americans, more important than Iraq. Since we GLBT DUers have a personal stake in this, we consider it vitally important. Isn't it ironic the decision on Gay marriage mirrors the decision on ME oil and Americans dying in Iraq? The decision won't be made by those who are most affected.

[IWantAChange]

1. Didn't Dubyha say we were in the ideological struggle of the century

with terrorists? Has the playbook changed so that the establishment of legal rights for alternative lifestyles is what threatens us most? Gosh George, can you and your pals get your story straight?

[sui generis]

2. they are right of course

any time the majority can decide to take away the rights of an abstract minority, the very foundations of civilization are at stake.

In Germany when they did that, jews (German citizens I might add) were rounded up and gassed, and now they want to do that here, starting exactly the same way they did with the jews; by taking away their property rights, their ability to secure housing, jobs, marriage licenses, food, or even the right to leave the country.

Yes, Virginia, it started off just like this.

[NMMNG]

3. The double standard

The Republicans are being told "Gay Marriage is the most important issue right now. We must fight to save marriage at all costs." As a result they are mobilizing their bases in every way, shape and form to make sure we cannot marry (and while they're at it they're working to whittle away our other rights)


The Democrats are saying "Gay Marriage is such a hot-button issue we shouldn't push it right now or it will cost us the election. There are other issues that are more important to worry about now, then after we win this election, then the presidency, we can look again at the issue of Gay Marriage."


And if we don't win this year, and if we don't win the presidency--then what? Do we wait until gay marriage is banned by the federal Constitution? Do we wait until the Republicans have taken away all of our rights? Do we wait until they make homosexuality a crime punishable by death? How long do we wait for the Democrats to stand up for our rights?

[Vorta]

4. Just a little dramatic

<I>Do we wait until gay marriage is banned by the federal Constitution? Do we wait until the Republicans have taken away all of our rights? Do we wait until they make homosexuality a crime punishable by death? </I>

Since I get fed up with conservative hyperbole and slippery-slope theology, it's only fair to take you to task for the same. We may never get an equal marriage law or ruling, and it won't be the end of the world. We will adapt. We have already come a long way in assimilating our oppressors. The fact that marriage is our big issue now is evidence of how much progress has been made; twenty years ago it was still housing and employment. Yes, we still have a long road ahead of us. There is the military discrimination and the quiet discrimination.

I live in a small town in Florida that is slightly more Republican than Democratic in its registrations in a county of similar marks. We have a human rights ordinance, gay events in the town center, and a respectable (in both senses of the word) PRIDE event which is enjoyed by straight people as well. There were those who wanted to Castro/Noe this town, and gay people who stood up to that kind of aggression. We are winning in the streets if not always in the courts and legislatures.

Can you get called a fag in my town? Yes, you can can also get called names by passing drivers in San Francisco or Berkeley. The world will never be perfect.

[NMMNG]

5. Smells like Teen Spirit

Can you get called a fag in my town? Yes, you can can also get called names by passing drivers in San Francisco or Berkeley. The world will never be perfect.

So you're trying to claim that the extent of GLBT bashing in today's world amounts to nothing more than a little name calling? Might I suggest you crawl out from under your rock and do a little research? Does the name Matthew Shepard ring a bell? How about Brandon Teena? Danny Overstreet, JR Warren, PFC Barry Winchell, Billy Jack Gaither or Bill Clayton?



And you claim I'm guilty of "slippery slope theology". You're quite wrong. Nothing I suggested was anything that has not been demanded by the Religious Right, or even American politicians who are members of the Religious Right.



First they seek to ban gay marriage.



Then they seek to ban laws that protect gays from discrimination.

Malhotra says her Christian faith compels her to speak out against homosexuality. But the Georgia Institute of Technology, where she's a senior, bans speech that puts down others because of their sexual orientation.

Malhotra sees that as an unacceptable infringement on her right to religious expression. So she's demanding that Georgia Tech revoke its tolerance policy.

With her lawsuit, the 22-year-old student joins a growing campaign to force public schools, state colleges and private workplaces to eliminate policies protecting gays and lesbians from harassment. The religious right aims to overturn a broad range of common tolerance programs: diversity training that promotes acceptance of gays and lesbians, speech codes that ban harsh words against homosexuality, anti-discrimination policies that require college clubs to open their membership to all.

The Rev. Rick Scarborough, a leading evangelical, frames the movement as the civil rights struggle of the 21st century. "Christians," he said, "are going to have to take a stand for the right to be Christian." Full Article



Finally, their most radical members want homosexuality to be a death-penalty crime.

Ohio candidate for U.S. Senate wants gays dead


When Iraq war veteran and same-sex marriage supporter Paul Hackett dropped out of Ohio's Democratic race for the U.S. Senate last month, he was replaced by truck driver Merrill Keiser Jr., who says gays should get the death penalty. In an interview with the Sandusky Register, Keiser, who filed for candidacy within days of Hackett's withdrawal, said he wouldn't be against making homosexuality a felony punishable by the death penalty. http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid27548.asp">Full Article




And don't use that patronizing tone with me ever again.

[Sapphocrat]

7. Buffy, I think you made a typo in the title of your post.

Something smells all right, but I don't think "spirit" is the right word.

[NMMNG]

10. You're just not hip to Buffy-speak

Others would have said something about Pizza.

[Sapphocrat]

11. Oh, I'm hip.

Obtuse at times, but hip. :D

[NMMNG]

12. ...

:evilgrin:

[swimboy]

15. Buffy!

:hug: :patriot: :hug:

[NMMNG]

22. Hi Swimboy!

:hug:

[Maven]

6. ?

There were those who wanted to Castro/Noe this town, and gay people who stood up to that kind of aggression.

What does that even mean? That there were "those" who wanted to make it more gay-friendly, but luckily some self-haters stopped their "aggression?" What the fuck are you talking about?

BTW, I have family in the St. Pete/Clearwater area and although it's got potential (high GLBT per capita, etc.), it is FAR from gay-friendly at the moment. The St. Pete Times did a story recently documenting instances of city officials in St. Pete and Tampa actively attempting to shut down parades and other pride events and dissociate the city from GLBT organizations lest there appear to be any "official" endorsement of our cause.

So no, I really wouldn't compare it to San Fran or Berkeley quite yet. :eyes:

[Sapphocrat]

8. I guess it means...

...there must be a town in Florida where everyone has an inexplicable fear of gay men and million-dollar Victorian homes and great restaurants. :shrug:

[Maven]

9. Yup. I've been to the area...

BELIEVE ME, there is no danger of great restaurants or elegant homes anytime soon. No self-respecting power lesbian would be caught DEAD negotiating a film distribution deal there, either. I guess they're safe. :rofl:

[Vorta]

17. Oh, now I get it. Sorry I bothered. n/t

[Jella]

14. Way to go Harvey

Russ all the way!

[Vorta]

16. I don't want to be SF

What does that even mean? That there were "those" who wanted to make it more gay-friendly, but luckily some self-haters stopped their "aggression?" What the fuck are you talking about?

Gay-friendly, or what I would like to think of as normal, welcoming, or indifferent is not the same thing as gay-ghetto. There were those whose presumably innocent actions took the deliberate form of promoting Gulfport as the next P-Town or something like that. Many of the people here are veterans of the nation's gay-ghettos and we didn't move here for that. Our attraction to this town was its mix of people. The gay population of this town tripled in a very short period of time, property prices soared, and with only 5000 or so houses here we could have easily steamrolled this place.

BTW, I have family in the St. Pete/Clearwater area and although it's got potential (high GLBT per capita, etc.), it is FAR from gay-friendly at the moment. The St. Pete Times did a story recently documenting instances of city officials in St. Pete and Tampa actively attempting to shut down parades and other pride events and dissociate the city from GLBT organizations lest there appear to be any "official" endorsement of our cause.

So no, I really wouldn't compare it to San Fran or Berkeley quite yet.

Neither St Pete nor Tampa shut down a PRIDE parade or made an attempt to do so. Hillsborough County Commissioner Ronda Storms shoved through a policy that the county would not support PRIDE events. The Mayor of Tampa immediately responded with an affirmation of Tampa's commitment to diversity and welcoming of the PRIDE events scheduled for the summer. Mayor Rick Baker of St Pete, a Republican, refuses to sign a declaration of "gay day" or something like that for St Pete PRIDE, but it has no effect and the chairman of the city council makes the declaration. Tiny Gulfport (near St Pete Beach), has never resisted PRIDE events.

You can dance with your same-sex partner without fear or comment in any bar in Gulfport. You can walk down the street holding hands if you like. There is a higher level of social integration here than anywhere I have ever lived, and that includes San Francisco. I like that. I also appreciate why someone wants to do a stint in SF gay immersion. Everyplace where gay people live doesn't have to be that exclusive, especially if you want to live near your parents.

[Jamastiene]

18. Gee, wish things were that rosy where I live.

You can't even be gay here without getting attacked physically. God help you if anyone says you are gay. Whether you are or not, you are getting your ass kicked here where I live. We have a long way to go in many areas of the country. I don't know of any place near here that is quite as grand and tolerant as how you describe where you live.

[Vorta]

19. Sorry to hear that.

I don't know what your plan is, but would recommend that you have one. I moved to SF on a lark when I was young, and it took a very long time to establish myself. I wish that someone had suggested to me that I get a certificate in an indispensible trade like electrician, plumber, or medical. Those are the only well paying jobs I know of that allow you to plug yourself in immediately in just about any place you want to live. Of course, it didn't help that I liked to party too much. Good luck.

[Jamastiene]

20. Actually, there is no such thing as an electrician any more.

There is this unified national code nowadays that complicates things. In order to work as a licensed electrical contractor (the new term for electrician), you have to pass an expensive test, then get expensive insurance, and pay lots of money every time you turn around and take tons of classes to keep that license. Before you can even get that license though, you must work under another licensed electrical contractor for at least 2 years for a limited license and 4 years to finally work for yourself. It's more complicated as far as the electrical work goes when it comes to the laws and what you can and cannot do. Around here, you have to get a diploma, not a certificate to even be considered for a job working under an electrical contractor.

The reason I know all this is that I have the diploma in electrical/electronics technology and I'm working for a degree in computer engineering now, which is just a specialize electronics degree.

Never mind what the plumbers have to do for a living. I salute them. They really do the work the rest of us cannot stomach.

I have some nursing friends. They'll be paying for loans well into their 50s or 60s. Wow, that's expensive.

Even where I live, you have to have a degree of some sort to get a decent paying job. It's tough all over nowadays.

[ThomCat]

13. And we could all loose that pleasant little

illusion of safety in a heartbeat if the religious right and the neocons get to dig in any deeper. If that happens, it will be because Democrats kept saying, "let's not push this gay rights thing right now. It's not the right time."

One more person I'm considering putting on ignore just for having nothing to say worth reading. :eyes:

[davidinalameda]

21. don't say that you're going to put someone on ignore

that's against the rules

but blatent homophobia seems not to be

interesting