same-sex marriage once again moves front and center - Matier & Ross

[swimmernsecretsea]

From the San Francisco Chronicle and SFGate.com column of Matier and Ross:

Here we go again: Wouldn't you know it - just as the presidential race heats up, same-sex marriage once again moves front and center with its big showdown before the California Supreme Court.

Tuesday's court hearing came four years to the month after Newsom made world news by allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry at San Francisco City Hall - setting off a controversy that some Democrats still believed helped to re-elect President Bush.

"It is ironic that it comes up exactly four years later," Newsom said. "Not three, not five. Just in time for the election again."

Same-sex marriage won't have much of an effect in the Democratic primaries, but if the California Supreme Court clears the way for gay nuptials, it could be a big deal in November when Barack Obama or Hillary Rodham Clinton faces John McCain.

"I'm not going to kid you, it's unfortunate (and) a problem," said Democratic pollster Paul Maslin, who has worked on a number of national campaigns, including a gay rights fight in Wisconsin.

"We're trying to make history with either the first woman candidate or the first African American candidate," Maslin said. "In either case, there are people in the middle out there who we haven't heard from yet who could be peeled off on the value issues."

(italics from source)
Source Link: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/05/BANLVDHGS.DTL&tsp=1

Interesting how Matier and Ross suggest that the timing has been deliberately coincided with the Primaries to hurt the reputations of both democratic candidates.

[msongs]

1. that's what happens when a candidate does NOT support full equality for all people nt

[terrya]

2. *sigh*

Christ, we had to put up with this shit in 2004. And now we're going to deal with it again...those pushy homos and dykes who selfishly want full equality will cost the Democrats the White House.

[Tyo]

3. Are there any numbers, any stats,

even any good anecdotal evidence that candidates who make support for gay equality part of their overall program have alienated a significant number of voters who would have supported them otherwise?

[LostinVA]

4. When civil unions passed in NJ, the cries of gays costing the election went through DU in minutes

Guess what? We still won back congress in 2006.

[dbackjon]

5. If this costs the Dems the election

They don't deserve to win.

Fuck anyone that doesn't support immediate, full, and equal rights for all Americans.

[MuseRider]

6. The only fucking

unfortunate thing and problem is that this keeps coming up because none of you apparently have the guts to stand by the constitution and your fellow citizens and do the right thing.

NOT the fault of the GLBT community but the fault of gutless weenies that govern our country. Take a look inside boys (and a few girls) and see that if you had done the right thing and fought for this you would not be dealing with this "unfortunate" situation now and next time and the time after that......... LEAD for once, lead the country and educate the dumb masses who are led by people who love to use this year after year.

[Tyo]

7. Wait a minute...

Are you saying that the Democratic Party should take a principled stand? And not only that but actually stick with it? Hmmm.... asking quite a bit don't you think?

[MuseRider]

8. LOL

I laugh because it is better than crying. Principle? Democrats? I used to think so. No longer though. I think the only principle I see is the one that says they should use any issue, any people, any thing to get re elected. There it is. Govern? Nope, make more money and get re elected. Help people by ensuring social programs? on and on and on and on

I guess you can tell I am angry. I am not hopeful nor do I want anything like the kind of change that is coming by any one of the people running.

Democrats? Principle? I used to think so. Either I was blind or they have left us far far behind.

[TechBear_Seattle]

12. The Democratic DOES have principles

Unfortunately, it is the principle amount of campaign loans made by corporations, most of which stand to the right of where Barry Goldwater stood in 1964.

[swimmernsecretsea]

13. Yes, that is indeed asking quite a bit.

But let's ask it. Let's ask for courage and a principled stand that we don't ever apologize for. Let's not wimp out and assume that our rights are something we need to request in a quiet, polite voice. Let's not think that in doing so we're going to ruin anyone's election but that of the candidate who would seek to deprive us of those rights. Asking for courage and a principled stand is hard. History has seen that. But let's not do the easy thing.

Let's try it out! Yeah!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[JackBeck]

9. ...

[MuseRider]

10. Sometimes

I think they need a good slap across the face to wake them up (I am non violent so I only say that, would never do that) but then I realize that they are sadly awake.

When doing the right thing becomes something to avoid to get elected you know we are circling the bowl. Nothing will stop that except to elect leaders with principle and sadly we are unable to do that anymore. We have been bought and sold, all of us but the thing that scares me the most is that when they use you as a scapegoat people get incited and angry and that is so scary. I wish like anything I could change this. I don't give up on trying but I certainly have given up on the Democrats. I wait for that all to change (in my dreams).

[TechBear_Seattle]

11. Imagine: *I'm* going to help get McCain elected and return control of Congress to the GOP

Once again, our desire for basic human rights can and will be used by bigots in the Democratic Party to excuse their own habit of losing elections badly.

Hip, hip horray. :eyes:

[MuseRider]

14. You know, if you would just stop

flaunting your inequality in our faces we might be able to forget about you completely.

I know you know this but just in case someone else wanders in :sarcasm:

[Tyo]

15. Jeezus MuseRider

I almost lost my coffee. That needs to be a bumper sticker. Can I use it?

[swimmernsecretsea]

18. T-Shirt, bumper sticker, and coffee mug. I like it! nt.

[MuseRider]

19. Knock yourself out!

I have been getting increasingly angry over all of this. I find it difficult to control myself when this crap comes up. I had the time the last two days to really get upset and post. I need to back off I think :). I was a little afraid that would be taken wrong and that would not be the first time. Glad it was not.

[Tyo]

20. Adversity must bring your creativity

Don't stop. No need to worry about anyone taking you the wrong way. You're always spot on!:yourock:

[swimmernsecretsea]

21. You have every right to be angry.

When someone says to me or someone I love that they don't count as much as anyone else, I get angry too.

And I'm serious. Go and copyright that line.

[Chovexani]

16. Here we go again, indeed

If the Dem candidate loses in November, expect homophobic attacks against LGBT Dems like you have never seen before. It will be 100 times worse here than it was after 2004 (and those of you who were here for that know how terrible this place got and how LGBT were blamed for Kerry losing).

I will formally leave the party and become an Independent if that happens. I will never vote for a Repuke, but I will work to support local progressives and channel my volunteer efforts to the LGBT community. If we don't take care of ourselves the straights sure as hell won't, they've proven that (with a few exceptions).

[NMMNG]

17. "Value issues"

Yes, they are "value issues". Like millions of people who don't have equal Human and Civil Rights because of the bigotries (largely chosen religious ones) of the majority. That's utter bullshit.

The biggest problem we have here is that our Democratic politicians keep letting the RRRW and like-minded elements on our own side call the shots in this matter. Dems bow down to the RRRW's claims that they are "moral values" crowd when their sole notions of "moral values" are obsessing about peoples' sex-lives and fetuses. The RRRW couldn't give a shit about how many people are harmed or killed by their utter lack of concern for the born, or by the intolerance and hatred they exhibit and foster with their rhetoric.


The Dems need to grow spines and stand up for the ideals of the Democratic party rather than trying to suck up to the RRRW in some attempt to win them over; it's not going to happen. If they finally do that they might avoid losing votes to third party candidates like Ralph Nader every damn time.

:rant: