My school has decided that "queer" is a bad word.

[lightningandsnow]

Seriously. Apparently it counts as "profanity", even when used in a non-derogatory sense, and is banned from all school drama productions.

You know, I just love when people turn my identity into a swear word. :sarcasm:

I think I'm going to make a t-shirt that says queer on it. And wear it to school.

[MercutioATC]

1. To be fair, they're trying to "protect" gays...

...in a completely silly and constitutionally-inappropriate way, but I believe the intent is there.

[porcelain_doll]

2. Iffy.

But I agree in a way.

[Warpy]

3. The road to hell is paved with good intentions

and there's a big difference between using the word in its literary sense and using it as a pejorative and any educated adult should be able to tell that difference.

High school kids are thugs, though, and will try to push that envelope. If they're creative enough, they should get away with it. However, most of them are dumb as doorknobs and any teacher who has an ear out should easily be able to tell the difference.

I hate those zero tolerance things. They're for people with zero wit.

[sui generis]

32. it would help if they involved some gays in that strategy though

you know, ask us what we think, instead of thinking for us . . . . we ARE grownups, after all, paying bills, raising kiddos, and all the other grown up things we have to do.

It's patronizing and inappropriate and should be shot down.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

4. Well, tell them that my queer has decided

that school is a bad word.

So there.

[dsc]

5. Honestly I can see what they are doing

it would be similar to banning the n word but even that is permitted in things like Huckaberry Finn.

[xchrom]

6. yeah -- since i'm not fond of that descriptive for gay people

and it has a far, far longer association as a pejorative than as a reclaimed word -- i have no problem with it.

you really can't say or do just anything you want in this world.

and queer is offensive to many, many gay folk.

[Orrex]

7. From Moby Dick, Chapter Twelve

And thus an old idolater at heart, he yet lived among these Christians, wore their clothes, and tried to talk their gibberish. Hence the queer ways about him, though now some time from home.

Page 47 in my Barnes & Noble edition.


I always knew that there was something not quite right about that book. Hell, "queer" pops up again and again. The children must be protected from this pernicious word at all costs!

on edit: Despite my misgivings about any effort by a school to ban a word in this fashion, I am sympathetic to the concerns of people who are touched more directly by the malicious use of "queer" than I am. Still, a zero-tolerance policy usually isn't the way to go IMO.

[MADem]

8. Well, there will be no watching BLANK Eye for the Straight Guy reruns, then! NT

[WillParkinson]

9. Sorry, AspieGrrl...

I'm one of those "older folks" who finds the word degrading. Heard it used a lot when I was a kid.

I agree with someone else, though. A blanket no-tolerance policy is extreme.

[joeybee12]

13. Same here...I remember cringing the first time I heard people

referring to themselves that way...it's a generational thing and queer conjures up hateful intentions IMHO.

[notesdev]

10. People who try to ban words

need to get a life.

The pretense that by banning the word you can ban thoughts is a destructive absurdity, and it does no one any good.

[Toasterlad]

16. I Totally Agree. Banning Words Does Absolutely Nothing to Combat Hate.

All it does is give the word more power.

[kdpeters]

11. That would be an example of political correctness in its most negative connotation

The one that simply focuses on the diction of the language without any regard to the concept or context of the thought being expressed.

I agree with the people here who recognize that the intent in itself is in the right place, but I also agree with those decrying an across the board prohibition against a single word no matter the context spoken and no matter the concept being expressed. I'm a lover of language and such a simplistic dumbing down type policy seems to me a perversion of language.

Personally, I love the word queer and generally prefer to use either 'queer' or 'gay' rather than the alphabet soup type acronyms ... GLBTIQQada;lkjsdf asdf;ljk which I find really really tedious. Whereas gay is a little less threatening in mixed company, it works as a general descriptor of sexual minorities. I just don't feel it is inclusive enough to envelope our transgender, intergender and other brothers and sisters that defy labels yet are one of us by virtue of being a sexual minority. For that, queer works quite well, but it also has the quality of being a little bit more confrontational and counter-cultural. In my opinion, that's still a positive aspect of the word. I like that implication of rebeliousness implied by its usage. I can see why reasonable people disagree and find it discomfiting. I respect that, but I disagree.

But any teacher, any schoolyard bully, and any of his victims know instinctively that the same word that can sometimes represent pride and inclusiveness, can also be used to harass and degrade. Zero tolerance policies like these ask us to throw away our language processing centers in the brain and respond to human language as if we were automatons and not even human at all.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. actually i am going to agree with the school on this one

while queer is a reclaimed word for those who are young and comfortable w.their sexual orientation, it can and has been used as a perjorative for many years. imagine that you are not out and somewhat is hurling that word at you. highschool parents/teachers want you to be safe. college is more the place you go to, to break boundaries and create you own identities etc.

in a mostly under-18 crowd, where very few understand the implication of QUEER, in my opinion if the school banned it, its not a bad thing.

[lightningandsnow]

14. You're right, but,

The thing is my school doesn't do a damn thing about all the kids who call everything they don't like "gay" and "retarded". So it seems kind of misplaced.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. gay is an actual definition as is retarded. so really you cant ban those words.

queer is more risque, a perjorative that has very recently been reclaimed.

i bet they would ban dyke too but not lesbian

[MNBrewer]

19. queer isn't a "definition"?

American Heritage Dictionary

Queer (adj.)

1. Deviating from the expected or normal; strange: a queer situation.
2. Odd or unconventional, as in behavior; eccentric. See Synonyms at strange.
3. Of a questionable nature or character; suspicious.
4. Slang Fake; counterfeit.
5. Feeling slightly ill; queasy.
6. Offensive Slang Homosexual.
7. Usage Problem Of or relating to lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, or transgendered people.

Lots of definitions, apparently.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. yes, but its a reclaimed perjorative. if they banned 'gay' their would be

rightfully a huge outcry.

[MNBrewer]

23. and queer isn't?

On edit. I mean and GAY isn't? they're both "reclaimed pejoratives"

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. no because even within our community there is lot of disagreement about queer

and before you keep acting as though i am the foe, i id as queer too

[MNBrewer]

25. So then, it's a matter of preference

Some people prefer one reclaimed pejorative over another. Both words have negative connotations regarding homosexuals. Both words are about as old in their application toward homosexuals. Gay and queer began to be "reclaimed" within about 10 or 20 years of each other, gay first, then queer.

My take on it is that because gay usually is used in reference to gay men, while queer covers a huge gamut of sexual orientation/etc. that gay became "acceptable", while the word queer "offends" mostly those who object to being lumped in with bisexuals/transexuals/etc. Just an opinion, of course.

[MNBrewer]

26. Or, in other words

There's even disagreement about just who "our community" includes.

[MNBrewer]

20. Definition of "GAY"

Again, American Heritage Dictionary.

Gay (adj.)

1. Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
2. Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry.
3. Bright or lively, especially in color: a gay, sunny room.
4. Given to social pleasures.
5. Dissolute; licentious.

[sui generis]

33. I just don't think that anyone but us should be making that decision for us

That's my problem with it. I kind of feel like we're being babysitted and patronized, and they're doing this "for our own good", and all the other baggage that comes with that.

Yes, I know, I'm a rebel without a pause.

Why does this "majority" have the right to insinuate that I can't refer to myself this way in public without being punished for it?

What happened to protecting my rights in this matter? Intent aside, it has bigger consequences that I'm uncomfortable with.

We should not be using enforceable rules and law in place of education, especially if we believe that governance is by the consent of the governed.

[Lyric]

35. I agree with the school too, mostly because

if they allow the word "queer", how can they tell for sure who's using it an an "acceptable" way and who isn't? There are *gay* people who would be offended if another gay person referred to them as "queer". Allowing it gives the subtle homophobes a way to insult and deride without getting caught, because they can go all wide-eyed and innocent and claim that they "thought that word was okay to use now."

Since there's no 100% accurate way to determine intent, it's better that a word with that kind of capacity to hurt be left outside of a public school.

[Zuiderelle]

17. It's difficult to ban words in a specific context, so they ban the word itself.

And (I think) that's ok in this context. I have only experienced straight people's use of the word in a negative sense. It's only gay people who have sought to reclaim "queer" and use it as a positive term. That's not the same thing as "gay" which is used by all sides both negative and positive.

If it were possible to ban the thought behind the words, then gay and retarded should be banned as well, but it's not possible, or it's at least very difficult and subjective. Queer, on the other hand, is normally only positive when gay people use it in reference to themselves. It would be ok if it were used in its original meaning, which is "odd," but since it's so firmly associated with gay people, it's hard to distinguish that. (Personally that's why I object to the term, since it is equating being gay with being odd, as, ironically, "gay" is now used to describe odd things.)

That said, I don't know how effective banning its use could be. It will only make it more challenging for some people to try to use it.

[MNBrewer]

18. I already weighed in on the use of the word "queer"

And lots of people jumped on my ass because of it. The q-word war was won by the queers, but the anti-queers just haven't realized it yet. and before any of you jump on me again

1, NO, I'm NOT young. I'm 43.

2. No, I didn't grow up in an enlightened urban area. I grew up in rural Georgia.

3. Yeah, I got hurt by being called queer, but I also got hurt by being called gay. what's the difference?

[Ms. Toad]

22. As a former teacher

who hated the dress code, since it meant that I had to spend a good portion of every period in my most challenging classes fighting about why I was the only teacher who enforced the rules, rather than teaching, I would not have welcomed another rule to force.

On the other hand, I also spent a significant amount of time calling students on intolerant behavior toward each other - only to be rewarded by, "I didn't mean it that way." "Queer" was then, as "gay" is now, a word that is definitely used in both contexts - I can generally tell the difference subjectively, but would be hard pressed to objectively categorize it. When that happens, the teacher (and the target of the comment) loses. I actually don't hear "queer" thrown about in a derogatory context nearly as much as "gay" among my daughter's classmates.

I don't know what the solution is, but anytime you put the teacher in the position of having to make a subjective call about student behavior it is not a good thing. So, I guess my vote would be to either ban it in all but literary contexts objectively having nothing to do with sexuality, or to remain silent.

[xchrom]

27. since we're traipsing out definitions

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/gay?view=uk
gay


  • adjective (gayer, gayest) 1 (especially of a man) homosexual. 2 relating to homosexuals. 3 dated light-hearted and carefree. 4 dated brightly coloured; showy.

  • noun a homosexual person, especially a man.

  — DERIVATIVES gayness noun.

  — USAGE Gay is now a standard term for ‘homosexual’, and is the term preferred by homosexual men to describe themselves. As a result, it is now very difficult to use gay in its earlier meanings ‘carefree’ or ‘bright and showy’ without arousing a sense of double entendre. Gay in its modern sense typically refers to men, lesbian being the standard term for homosexual women.

  — ORIGIN Old French gai.




http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/queer?view=uk
 
queer


  • adjective 1 strange; odd. 2 informal, derogatory (of a man) homosexual. 3 Brit. informal, dated slightly ill.

  • noun informal, derogatory a homosexual man.

  • verb informal spoil or ruin.

  — PHRASES in Queer Street Brit. informal, dated in difficulty or debt. queer someone’s pitch Brit. informal spoil someone’s plans or chances of doing something.

  — DERIVATIVES queerish adjective queerly adverb queerness noun.

  — USAGE The word queer was first used to mean ‘homosexual’ in the early 20th century. It was originally, and usually still is, a deliberately derogatory term when used by heterosexual people. In recent years, however, gay people have taken the word queer and deliberately used it in place of gay or homosexual, in an attempt, by using the word positively, to deprive it of its negative power.

  — ORIGIN perhaps from German quer ‘oblique, perverse’.


i'll take the the oxford dictionary over the american heritage dictionary any day.

and please note -- both gay and queer --generally speaking -- really refer to men -- not women.

gay is a term we fought for because 'homosexual' is what medical science used to lock us up.
both men and women.

while gay tries to claimed by the straight community as a derogatory -- gay really is our word.

now you can think it's hip or whatever to to reclaim queer -- but it has a far longer history -- and continues to be -- a derogatory term
that is next of kin to the 'n' word if you ask me.


 



 

[MNBrewer]

28. Far longer history?

Oh, really? How much longer? (edited)

GAY: (Online Etymology Dictionary)

OED gives 1951 as earliest date for slang meaning "homosexual" (adj.), but this is certainly too late; gey cat "homosexual boy" is attested in N. Erskine's 1933 dictionary of "Underworld & Prison Slang;" the term gey cat (gey is a Scot. variant of gay) was used as far back as 1893 in Amer.Eng. for "young hobo," one who is new on the road and usually in the company of an older tramp, with catamite connotations. But Josiah Flynt <"Tramping With Tramps," 1905> defines gay cat as, "An amateur tramp who works when his begging courage fails him." Gey cats also were said to be tramps who offered sexual services to women. The "Dictionary of American Slang" reports that gay (adj.) was used by homosexuals, among themselves, in this sense since at least 1920. Rawson <"Wicked Words"> notes a male prostitute using gay in reference to male homosexuals (but also to female prostitutes) in London's notorious Cleveland Street Scandal of 1889. Ayto <"20th Century Words"> calls attention to the ambiguous use of the word in the 1868 song "The Gay Young Clerk in the Dry Goods Store," by U.S. female impersonator Will S. Hays. The word gay in the 1890s had an overall tinge of promiscuity -- a gay house was a brothel. The suggestion of immorality in the word can be traced back to 1637. Gay as a noun meaning "a (usually male) homosexual" is attested from 1971.

QUEER: (Online Etymology Dictionary)

1508, "strange, peculiar, eccentric," from Scottish, perhaps from Low Ger. (Brunswick dialect) queer "oblique, off-center," related to Ger. quer "oblique, perverse, odd," from O.H.G. twerh "oblique," from PIE base *twerk- "to turn, twist, wind" (related to thwart). The verb "to spoil, ruin" is first recorded 1812. Sense of "homosexual" first recorded 1922; the noun in this sense is 1935, from the adj.

[xchrom]

29. well -- yeah -- longer --

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=gay&searchmode=none

1178, "full of joy or mirth," from O.Fr. gai "gay, merry," perhaps from Frank. *gahi (cf. O.H.G. wahi "pretty"). Meaning "brilliant, showy" is from c.1300. OED gives 1951 as earliest date for slang meaning "homosexual" (adj.), but this is certainly too late; gey cat "homosexual boy" is attested in N. Erskine's 1933 dictionary of "Underworld & Prison Slang;" the term gey cat (gey is a Scot. variant of gay) was used as far back as 1893 in Amer.Eng. for "young hobo," one who is new on the road and usually in the company of an older tramp, with catamite connotations. But Josiah Flynt <"Tramping With Tramps," 1905> defines gay cat as, "An amateur tramp who works when his begging courage fails him." Gey cats also were said to be tramps who offered sexual services to women. The "Dictionary of American Slang" reports that gay (adj.) was used by homosexuals, among themselves, in this sense since at least 1920. Rawson <"Wicked Words"> notes a male prostitute using gay in reference to male homosexuals (but also to female prostitutes) in London's notorious Cleveland Street Scandal of 1889. Ayto <"20th Century Words"> calls attention to the ambiguous use of the word in the 1868 song "The Gay Young Clerk in the Dry Goods Store," by U.S. female impersonator Will S. Hays. The word gay in the 1890s had an overall tinge of promiscuity -- a gay house was a brothel. The suggestion of immorality in the word can be traced back to 1637. Gay as a noun meaning "a (usually male) homosexual" is attested from 1971.


it's not until 1922 that queer begins to have a gay reference -- and it's nothing but negative

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=queer&searchmode=none

1508, "strange, peculiar, eccentric," from Scottish, perhaps from Low Ger. (Brunswick dialect) queer "oblique, off-center," related to Ger. quer "oblique, perverse, odd," from O.H.G. twerh "oblique," from PIE base *twerk- "to turn, twist, wind" (related to thwart). The verb "to spoil, ruin" is first recorded 1812. Sense of "homosexual" first recorded 1922; the noun in this sense is 1935, from the adj.


in fact homosexual -- laid on us by the medical science community has a longer negative conotation than queer -- but only slightly.

we fought for the word gay -- we made it our own.
we re-named the whole world with that word.

you don't like it -- or you don't find the others offensive -- fine -- no one is going to baby-sit you.

[MNBrewer]

30. I don't find the word homosexual to be negative in the slightest.

and I don't recall having asked to be baby-sat. You seem to have volunteered all on your own.

[xchrom]

34. if you knew your history --

homosexual is the word -- the pathology that medical science used to do things like perform electroshock therapy on gay men's genitals.
entrap us in asylums, etc

gay men fought for that word because homosexual was their's -- their disease -- their illness foisted on us.

but whatever -- pointing out elementary gay history isn't baby sitting.

[MNBrewer]

31. It's all in your mind.

"Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing
either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me
it is a prison."

[galledgoblin]

36. "...and is banned from all school drama productions"

that's the part of the policy that bothers me, otherwise I would completely side with the school and love them for the effort.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

37. yeah, agreed. that part of policy is dumb.

[Falcon_Lights1916]

38. I See Where They Are Coming From,...

For decades, "queer" was used as an epithet against GLTB people, but in the last 15 years or so, GLBT people have begun to take the term back, using it with pride instead of shame. As a gay person who came out in the early 70s, I admit I'm not too crazy about people using this word--there is a lot of negative baggage associated with it.But I do see where those who want to reclaim it as a word of pride are coming from.

As mentioned elsewhere on this thread, it is probably a well-meant attempt to protect GLBT people. Considerate, but I, too, wish they would have had some GLBT people in on the decision. As long as it is emphasized that the term is used negatively only by ignorant bigots, I don't see why "queer" cannot be used.

[galledgoblin]

39. what's the policy on other iffy or hateful speech?

how well is the policy enforced?

if it's only the students who use "queer" in a positive sense who are called out by the faculty, then you may have an issue to at the very least talk back to the teachers on.

[Carnea]

40. Banning any words from drama productions is horrible.

Honestly they are trying to ban plays with Gay themes. Really what other plays have the word Queer in them.

Not that gays are there only target.

Schools are now banning all sorts of words from plays. More grievous they ban ideas. No more sex in Romeo and Juliet no more Suicide in Romeo and Juliet no more swords in Romeo and Juliet. I don't no what you end up with but it isn't Romeo and Juliet.

This is a horrible offensive attack on artistic freedom and I am a little surprised by the support it gets here.

This post is brought to you by the "Society against people having a good time" a surprisingly non-partisan group of people who's slogan is "We're not happy unless your not happy."

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

41. Every "swear word" needs context exceptions

This is like the people who tried to ban Huckleberry Finn from school curriculum because it used the word "nigger." It's all about the context, folks.

Here's another one. Due to my last name I was called "Boner" a lot growing up. But didn't they have a character named that on TV some time ago? Like, on prime time? And what about the old days when "boner" meant a gaffe or silly mistake? Do we now have to go back and remove any old literature or movies from school libraries and TV that happen to have this word, used in a completely innocent context at the time?

The zero-tolerance Nazis really drive me insane. They can't seem to understand that there are circumstances when a certain action is OK, and others where it is definitely not OK. They need to be taught a course in situational ethics...

[galledgoblin]

42. just playing devil's advocate

it is hard for administrators to say "X*" is ok, but "X" is not. it's just easier to make a broad, sweeping rule banning all usage.

of course, it's also moronic, and well worth the effort to make those exceptions because it creates a better environment in the long run.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

44. Playing "argue my case":

We want the baby but not the bath water. There's no reason we should have to accept either both or neither.

[galledgoblin]

46. I agree

I'm just saying that I understand that it's easier to make a zero tolerance policy- easier, not better, and even then, it's only easier in the short term.

[Toasterlad]

43. Tee Hee! "Boner" Tee Hee!

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

45. My friend from across the alley showed me this a couple years back...

I couldn't stop laughing. You realize that in the early 1950s the "B" word was used almost entirely to mean a goof. But this comic seemed to be hinting at another meaning...too funny to be a pure coincidence!

I miss being called Boner all the time...sure it was uncomfy for the first few months that I knew what it meant (way back in like fourth or fifth grade), but eventually you get used to these things. And most gay guys and straight chicks seem to like it too...