Did I say the right thing?

[Mike 03]

My friend wrote:

I think it's great that you donated money for Prop 8 if that's what you believe in. But I did want to bring one thing up for discussion. The way I see it, Prop 8 was put before the people to vote on. If that's what people want, then isn't trying to defeat it in the courts going against the whole purpose of having a vote in the first place? Come to think of it - how did it wind up on the ballot anyway if the courts already ruled on it once? I'm not sure I understand how that whole process.

My response:

About Prop 8, this is my feeling about it. First of all, the California Supreme Court already ruled on this months ago. One's view about Prop 8 depends on whether one views this as a civil rights issue or not, I think. Some do, and some don't. I do. Decades ago, before I was born, in the deep south, if you had taken a vote on "Separate but Equal" or Bussing, segregation or some of those issues during the Lyndon Johnson years (I hope I have my history right--it was the LBJ years, right?), the majority might have voted down the issues that the Supreme Court had decided. But just because they were narrow minded in that way did not mean they were right. The Court was right, because they interpreted the Constitution: Separate water fountains, who could eat where, who could sit where on the bus. This was all just plain wrong and it was not what the Founding Fathers wanted for our society. I know that may be strange to you, but that's where I am coming from. To me, this is a civil rights issue. Pure and simple.

On Edit:

I think I need a bit more finesse, less emotion, and more eloquence. I get so upset sometimes that I fail to but my best foot forward.

Please be kind. I'm new at this and very insecure... lol

[Ellen Forradalom]

1. Sounds right on to me

At one time the majority thought it despicable to give women the vote, too.

[Mike 03]

4. It's a good argument, but I need to pull it together somehow. So it can persuade someone

like her. I know she will have some stupid answer to what I wrote. I will post it here when she sends it...

[yardwork]

2. I think you responded beautifully!

[Mike 03]

3. Thanks, but I need to do better. I let emotion get in the way. NT

[yardwork]

9. I don't see anything emotional in your response.

You're correct - it was during LBJ's terms as president.

[Orsino]

5. Bringing in the Founding Fathers may not be helpful...

...because we know their prevailing opinion on civil rights--that these were mostly for rich white men. The concept of individual liberties is your basis for a response; once you admit that someone is a person, you are explicitly granting that person civil rights. Prop 8 was an attempt to move backward, and to deny the very humanity of a large segment of our population. It fails the simplest of smell tests, and so should never have made it onto a ballot.

[racaulk]

6. I think you gave a great response!

You're right. I'm convinced that if the rights of the minority were always put up for a popular vote, then slavery would still be legal in many places in the South. And women would not be able to vote (since it would have required a majority of MEN to vote to give them that right). When it comes to matters of civil rights, sometimes it takes the courts to pull public opinion in the direction of fairness and equality. Just think how much better we are, as a country, because of several landmark SCOTUS decisions in this regard.

Thank you for this and everything you're doing. I'm glad you're on our side.

:pals:

[RetiredTrotskyite]

8. That's the Key Issue...

NOBODY'S civil rights should be voted on, EVER.

I think you did a great job and your showing emotion shows you have a heart which is way more than I can say for fundies!

[KitchenWitch]

7. Do not confuse emotion with passion

Your response was a passionate one. As well as being a factual one. I think your response was clear, direct and to the point.

I look forward to hearing about her response.

:hug:

[bluedawg12]

10. You explained very well, it's about justice

and you explained why it is so.

Your friend asked a good question, not neccessarily one to get into, but how did Hate8 come up up on the ballot?

It came from the Catholic Bishop of SF who appealed to the Mor*ons for help. It was not a grass roots movement, for sure.

Your answer was to the point and clear.

[ruggerson]

11. great job

there were actually gallup polls done at the time of Loving Vs Virginia (the case that threw out anti miscegenation laws).

Over 70% of the country disapproved of interracial marriage.

The Courts are supposed to lead in protecting minorities from the will of the majority. That is one of the main reasons we have a third branch of government.

[Jamastiene]

12. Excellent.

You did an excellent job. :hug:

[machI]

13. I keep it simple with the people I deal with

The Constitution is not a vehicle for the majority to force its will upon the minority



That being said, I would add that rights are not something that can be put up to a vote.

Take a page from the 'Second Amenders'. The right to self defense, the right to bear arms comes not from man, but from God. What part of "Shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

The purpose of the Constitution it to limit the Government's power to restrict rights.
The purpose of the Constitution is NOT to empower the Government to impose the view of the Majority on the Minority.

[LostinVA]

14. Yup -- good points