Why churches fear gay marriage

[davidinalameda]

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/11/25/proposition_8_religion/

For author Richard Rodriguez, no one is talking about the real issues behind Proposition 8.

While conservative churches are busy trying to whip up another round of culture wars over same-sex marriage, Rodriquez says the real reason for their panic lies elsewhere: the breakdown of the traditional heterosexual family and the shifting role of women in society and the church itself. As the American family fractures and the majority of women choose to live without men, churches are losing their grip on power and scapegoating gays and lesbians for their failures.

Rodriguez, who is Mexican-American, gay and a practicing Catholic, refuses to let any single part of himself define the whole. Born in San Francisco in 1944 and raised by his Spanish-speaking Mexican immigrant parents to embrace mainstream American culture and the English language, he went on to study literature and religion at Stanford and Columbia. His first book, "The Hunger of Memory: The Education of Richard Rodriguez," explores his journey from working-class immigrant to a fully assimilated intellectual -- angering many Latinos with his view that English fluency is essential. "Days of Obligation: An Argument With My Mexican Father," which was a Pulitzer Prize finalist in 1993, continued his investigation into how family, culture, religion, race, sexuality and other strands of his life all contribute to the whole, a complex "brownness" of contradictions and ironies. "Brown: The Last Discovery of America" completes the trilogy -- but not his insatiable intellectual curiosity, which he is now shining on monotheism.

[yardwork]

1. "...churches are losing their grip on power."

That's it.

[Fearless]

2. Agreed. And thankfully I might add.

[LisaM]

3. It also neutralizes one of their tools - the quiverful of children

that boosts church numbers.

I'm sure the irony of the Mormons, of all people, judging others on their marital rights, escapes no one. But there is a practical aspect to plural marriage - it boosts numbers. I am not a proponent of this - I don't have kids, and I think that overpopulation is a scourge on the world right now. But allowing plural marriage does mean that you can up your numbers quickly. That doesn't go over so well in everyday society, so the fundamentalists are contenting themselves with discouraging birth control and abortion. Gays and people without kids screw up their paradigm.

[Democrats_win]

6. Pluralism turns Mormons into Welfare queens.

The cults that we've heard about rely on welfare to support these big families. Of course there's a bit of a catch-22 with this. Since a man can have only one wife, the others are un-wed mothers despite the fact, they are wed.

It's just another case of false religion living a big lie.

[yardwork]

11. I think they call that "bleeding the beast." They're proud of stealing from the government.

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. Maybe there's a deal that can be made there -

they back gay marriage, and in return gays back plural marriage for them.

Think they'd ever go for that?

[amitten]

4. "and the majority of women choose to live without men"...

Um, no.

Most women do not "choose" to live without a partner. A lot of single women raising children have been abandoned by the men in their lives.

[yardwork]

7. True. The patriarchal system never works for many women anyway.

It's also true that more women are genuinely choosing to live without men. I'm a case in point. I like to say that I'm Pat Robertson's worst nightmare.

In an effort to fit in and do the right thing and follow the socially accepted script, I ignored my obvious preference for women and married a very nice man right out of college. We lived together in a traditional marriage with children, the house in the suburbs, etc.

I gradually became more aware of the world and politics. Eventually I woke up to the fact that I am and always was a lesbian. I decided to leave my marriage and strike out on my own. This would not have been possible for most women until very recently. It's still not possible for many women. However, I am lucky. I had earned an advanced degree and maintained a business while I was a soccer mom. I was able to find a job and support myself. Economic independence was the essential key to my being able to live openly as a lesbian.

My story is terribly threatening to those who benefit from the patriarchal system. As women and minorities obtain civil rights they have access to education and economic independence. With economic independence comes the ability to live our lives as we choose, and many of us choose to live outside the "traditional" framework that brings profit and power to a few.

[amitten]

10. I'm talking about straight women, because the article says

"most women" and that means "the majority of women" which means mostly straight women.

And, as a single straight woman, I can tell you most women definitely are not single by choice.

[yardwork]

12. In any case, the authoritarian churches haven't been much help there either.

[amitten]

16. That's true. But the article loses credibility by making false

statements like the one about "most" women choosing to live without men. :wtf:

[yardwork]

17. The article is quoting the writer who made the statement.

[bluedawg12]

15. Greater than 50% divorce rates would suggest

that women who seek to end their marriage, as painful as that is, are preferring to live alone.

I read somewhere, that women tend to initiate divorce in greater numbers than men. I wold interpret that as choosing living alone, over an unhappy marriage.

His article talks about this in terms of societal change and reaction to change, as there was a time when abused women, or women who were locked into a dysfunctional marriage were suppressed from making such a choice and stigmatized.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Not all churches fear gay marriage

Unitarian/Universalist churches perform same sex marriages, I believe--at least some of them do. I haven't heard anything from my Order saying we aren't to use our wedding ritual on anyone.

[yardwork]

9. Your church isn't propping up the patriarchal capitalist model, either.

The leaders of your church don't need everybody to live in nuclear families in a suburb and buy the same gas grills, SUVs, and cookie-cutter homes. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I live and consumed myself that way for a long time. However, not everybody wants to live that way, and when we wander away it cuts into their profits.

Marx was right. It all comes down to labor and profit and controlling people. The churches that buy into the authoritarian model are the same churches that are threatened - rightly so! - by giving rights to women, gays, and minorities.

The churches that follow Jesus's words and walk a truly spiritual path aren't authoritarian, and they're the ones who embrace all people and all loves. It's very simply, really.

[bluedawg12]

8. The patriarchy fights back

In times of chaos and uncertainty, there is a historic tendency to revert or resort to what is perceived as more secure namely, authoritarian answers.

This rings true:

>>Today, Rodriguez is at work on a new book about the monotheistic "desert religions" -- Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Ever since Sept. 11, "when havoc descended in the name of the desert God," Rodriguez said in one of his Peabody Award-winning radio commentaries for PBS's News Hour, he has been trying to understand the strands of darkness that run through these religions.<<

<snip>

>>American families are under a great deal of stress. The divorce rate isn't declining, it's increasing. And the majority of American women are now living alone. We are raising children in America without fathers. I think of Michael Phelps at the Olympics with his mother in the stands. His father was completely absent. He was negligible; no one refers to him, no one noticed his absence.

The possibility that a whole new generation of American males is being raised by women without men is very challenging for the churches. I think they want to reassert some sort of male authority over the order of things. I think the pro-Proposition 8 movement was really galvanized by an insecurity that churches are feeling now with the rise of women.

Monotheistic religions feel threatened by the rise of feminism and the insistence, in many communities, that women take a bigger role in the church. At the same time that women are claiming more responsibility for their religious life, they are also moving out of traditional roles as wife and mother. <<

[Peregrine Took]

14. They are approaching their perceived problem in exactly the wrong way.

I just don't think the strategy of trying to scare the and threaten the "faithful"is going to work effectively this time as too many of the "faithful" are better educated now and 'won't be as easily cowed as their parents were in past generations.

Its very risky.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

19. The Churches' Favourite Tactic is Fear...

I know this from experience. I spent well over twenty years as a Traditional Roman Catholic (Tridentine Mass) and then an Old-Calendarist Orthodox. I lived in fear of ANYTHING different for YEARS. I could probably write a book on this subject. Finally about fifeen years ago, I went to the Old Catholics. Over the past decade-and-a-half, I have evolved into Paganism. No one tells me what to do and I take responsibility for my own actions.

Many religious people are motivated by fear which they then project on others in order to demonise them. The Churches have long realised this and used the tactic to good effect (think: Witch Craze). When they can't stop something with fear, they go for intimidation and whip up a frenzy in their followers.

[GodlessBiker]

18. Many clergy are worried that seeing happily married gay people will bring their own feelings...

to the surface.

[xchrom]

20. richard rodriguez is an amazing man and gifted writer. nt