Bernie Mac Another Casualty of Conventional Medicine?

[proud2BlibKansan]

(NaturalNews) The number of famous people dying at the hands of conventional medical doctors is increasing at an alarming rate. Today comedian Bernie Mac (best known for appearing in Oceans Eleven and The Bernie Mac Show) died following hospitalization and treatment for pneumonia. At the young age of 50, Bernie Mac joins an increasing roster of other notable celebrities who have died while being treated with conventional pharmaceuticals or chemotherapy: Heath Ledger, Peter Jennings, Tim Russert and many more.

Pneumonia is the name given to a common infection that fails to be properly handled by the body's own immune system. Bernie Mac's immune system, it turns out, was suppressed by pharmaceuticals due to treatments for an autoimmune disorder he was previously diagnosed with, called sarcoidosis.

The most common treatments for sarcoidosis are dangerous steroids (like Prednisone) or immune system suppressing drugs like Methotrexate. Following his treatment with one or both of these pharmaceuticals, Bernie Mac was described as having his sarcoidosis go into "remission." That's conventional medicine's code word for masking symptoms with dangerous chemicals while ignoring the underlying cause of the disease.

"Sarcoidosis," meanwhile, is just a fancy-sounding name for an out-of-control autoimmune response caused by an imbalanced immune system which is disrupted by dietary imbalances and exposure to toxic chemicals through processed foods, pharmaceuticals, personal care products and other environmental sources (like pesticides or cleaning solvents). Bernie Mac didn't really have sarcoidosis; he was merely given that label by doctors who attached a fancy name to a pattern of symptoms that Bernie Mac expressed.

more . . . http://www.naturalnews.com/023817.html

[Warpy]

1. What a steaming pile that is.

If he'd tried what these loons push, he'd have been dead years ago.

[Peregrine Took]

5. Uh, I'm a product of "loons" and I'm doing pretty darn good considering I

have 5 different conditions - two of which are serious autoimmune diseases.

If my Traditional Chinese Medicine (5,000 years can't be wrong...)internist (MD) didn't coordinate all my problems I would be in a fine mess.

Please don't yammer on about something when you have no direct experience on the subject which you, apparently, don't have.

[Warpy]

18. You know what they say about people who ASSume

[Peregrine Took]

29. And have you noticed they speak with SUCH authority as if they REALLY

knew what they were talking about.

[MichaelHarris]

97. my wife speaks with authority

she's an MD and she agrees, this is a big steaming pile. Go ahead and poke yourself with needles, when I'm sick I want the drugs and shit.

[TheWraith]

71. For 5,000 years people thought that the sun revolved around the Earth, too.

And a lot of that "traditional medicine" isn't just proven to be ineffective, much of it isn't even real "tradition," just things that quack doctors came up with to make money. You should count yourself lucky that they're doing well.

[noiretextatique]

79. a lot of coventional medicine isn't proven to be effective either

case in point: mammosite targeted radiation for breast cancer treatment. many radiologists don't use it because they believe it hasn't been proven effective in clinical trials. so the company markets this unproven procedure directly to women (via women's magazines) and to surgeons who cna make and easy buck off it.

[tabatha]

7. Actually, not.

Cancer survivor numbers are nothing to brag about.

Experiences with doctors - overdosing, misdiagnosing, under-treatment - allows one to identify strongly with this article - for many acquaintances.

[charlie and algernon]

2. so how did they get access to his medical charts?

or are they just pulling stuff out of their ass?

[SheilaT]

3. Well, since in our culture

most people rely on conventional medicine, and since we all die eventually, I'm not sure what to think.

We'll die as a result of conventional medicine, or from unconventional medicine, or no treatment at all.

And I'm quite impressed by your diagnosis that Bernie Mac didn't really have sarcoidosis. Your medical degree is from where?

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. I wondered that too

I don't believe the author is a doctor.

[Th1onein]

49. The diagnosis of sarcoidosis is one of elimination

If they can rule out a bunch of other diagnoses, then you MUST have sarcoidosis. Therefore, I don't think it's such a long shot to say that Bernie Mac might not have had sarcoidosis at all.

And, no, I'm not a doctor, just a scientist.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

115. Sorry you are just plain wrong on this one

Chest X-Ray, Blood Tests and ultimately Biopsy provide a clear diagnosis.


David

[mopinko]

69. dying people go to doctors, and take medications!! this is series!!11!1!

i think the correlation there is pretty strong. i think the author needs some help with his statics.

[phillysuse]

4. Actually some believe that sarcoidosis represents an

allergic response to particulate material such as silicates from sheet rock, construction dust, etc.
It is quite interesting that many of the 9-11 First responders have come down with sarcoidosis.
There is also an excess incidence of sarcoidosis in the African American community.

I don't personally know whether Bernie Mac had sarcoidosis or not (and I doubt that the writer of this article or the poster does either). The diagnosis is confirmed on biopsy of tissue showing the characteristic immune granulomas.

The treatment is with immunosuppressives as well as avoidance of particulate material - e.g. construction material, silicates, etc.

I don't think he died from conventional medicine and I think you don't know what you are talking about.
This article is bullshit

[AllieB]

9. I heard on the news that the immunosuppressants that he took

for sarcodoisis weakened his immune system and this led to him contracting a virulent form of pneumonia.

Pneumonia can kill healthy people. Children, the elderly, and those with weakened immune systems are much more likely to die.

You're right-the article is BS.

[phillysuse]

23. That is why they are called immunosuppressants -

they suppress the immune system - and they suppress it nonspecifically suppressing both the excessive immune response of the disease process and the body's host defense system.

This stuff happens and patients on immunosuppressants are at increased risk for infection.

This is a risk-benefit of immunosuppressants in autoimmune disorders.

Conventional medicine is not perfect and people still die of both the disease and complications of its treatment.

[Peregrine Took]

16. Many years ago I knew a woman who had sarcodosis.

She was extremely upset after receiving her diagnosis as she knew she had a very serious condiiton but the doctors were unable to provide very much information for her, especially in terms of a cure. This was in the late '80's or early '90's.

We had just purchased our first home PC so I offered to do some internet searching for her on this topic and was shocked that there was nothing out there on the subject of sarcodosis.

Nothing.

She was pretty far advanced in her illness and I don't know if she is even alive anymore.

She was a 40-ish African American woman who was, originally, from the south and had been living in Chicago for several years so I don't know if she was exposed to "sheet rock" or "construction dust."

When I met her she was working in the capacity of executive secretary for a temporary office service.

[AlCzervik]

6. once again how does Mike Adams know this==

How doctors destroyed Bernie Mac's immune system

Rather than addressing the underlying causes of his autoimmune disorders, doctors pumped him up with more chemicals that suppressed his immune system. From there, Bernie Mac was a pneumonia case just waiting to happen, because at that point he was walking around with a suppressed immune system.

Was he privy to Bernie Mac's medical records?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tabatha]

11. It seems that there must have been some reporting of his condition.

http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/nation/ny-usmac5795989aug10,0,1020014.story

[AlCzervik]

15. i understand but that doesn't mean he wasn't being treated for his underlying

condition and i think it's pretty damn irresponsible for "Mike Adams" to writing an article as if he were an expert on what care Bernie Mac may or may not have received. Not flaming you btw i just find this kind of thing beyond irritating.

[AllentownJake]

10. People get sick and Die

Some people get sick and die at a younger age than others. Welcome to reality.

[otohara]

73. Hope Your Dr.'s

don't overdose you with the various pharmaceuticals out there causing your death. Or worse yet, cause you to live life after suffering a debilitating stroke, paralysis, or a lifetime some horrible side effect.

[Mojambo]

12. This is gonna be a wicked awesome flame war. n/t

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tabatha]

13. Questions and answers

WHAT CAUSES IT?

Unclear, though experts believe environmental contaminants can help trigger a genetic susceptibility.
Q&A

Bernie Mac had suffered previously from sarcoidosis, an inflammatory lung disease that produces tiny lumps of cells in the body's organs. His publicist, Danica Smith, says sarcoidosis wasn't responsible for Mac's most current illness, but his situation brought the little-known disease that affects tens of thousands of Americans to prominence.

WHAT IS SARCOIDOSIS?

Sarcoidosis is an immune-system disorder that can inflame lymph nodes in the neck and the chest, make it hard to breathe and cause bumps and ulcers to break out on the skin.

Most cases are mild, but those that are severe can cause serious scarring in the lungs, a complication that occurs in 20 percent to 25 percent of patients.

HOW IS IT HARMFUL?

Normally the body fights perceived threats by mounting an inflammatory response, but with sarcoidosis this response becomes excessive and ends up producing small clumps of cells that can cluster together throughout the body, which can interfere with the functioning of various organs, especially the lungs (more than 90 percent of cases), the eyes and the skin.

WHAT ARE THE SYMPTONS?

Symptoms include a persistent cough, shortness of breath, fatigue, night sweats, weight loss, small red bumps on the face, arms or buttocks.

IS THERE A CURE?

No. A common treatment is Prednisone, a steroidal that can have serious side effects.

WHO IS AT RISK?

The illness mostly hits adults ages 20 to 40. African-Americans are more prone to the condition than whites, with African-American women twice as likely as men to be struck. - Chicago Tribune

[tabatha]

19. Prednisone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prednisone

Side-effects

Short-term side-effects, as with all glucocorticoids, include high blood glucose levels, especially in patients that already have diabetes mellitus or are on other medications that increase blood glucose (such as tacrolimus), and mineralocorticoid effects such as fluid retention (although it is worth noting, however, that the mineralocorticoid effects of prednisone are very minor; this is why it is not used in the management of adrenal insufficiency unless a more potent mineralocorticoid is administered concomitantly). Additional short-term side-effects include insomnia, euphoria, and, rarely, mania. Long-term side-effects include Cushing's syndrome, weight gain, osteoporosis, glaucoma, type II diabetes mellitus, and depression upon withdrawal.

Major

* increased blood sugar for diabetics
* weight gain
* facial swelling
* depression, mania, or other psychiatric symptoms
* unusual fatigue or weakness
* mental confusion / indecisiveness
* blurred vision
* abdominal pain
* peptic ulcer
* infections
* painful hips or shoulders
* osteoporosis
* insomnia
* severe joint pain
* cataracts
* osteonecrosis
* anxiety
* black, tarry stools
* stomach pain or bloating
* severe swelling
* mouth sores or dry mouth

Minor

* stretch marks
* nervousness
* acne
* rash
* increased appetite
* hyperactivity
* frequent urination
* diarrhea
* removes intestinal flora

[Peregrine Took]

26. My husband was on prednisone for a long time and 'felt terrible. He had the

typical bloated body and face and all it did was mask his serious symptoms.

Thank God his gastroenterologist at the University of Chicago was intelligent enough to take him off of prednisone and - 15 years later - he is still not on it.

He does Traditional Chinese Medicine, in conjunction with one rather western medicine rather benign RX and is doing very well. He, also, works with an ICM MD trained in China who views the body as a whole and not this "part" and that "part", etc.

[shireen]

106. I HATE prednisone

i had a major pain flare due to my auto-immune disease, and my doc put me on prednisone. It helped a little with the pain, but did a real number on my mental health. About 2 weeks later, I called my doc, crying hysterically, begging to be taken off that damned drug. I'm usually a very calm person; i don't do hysteria and never cry in front of anyone. It was a very scary and unpleasant experience.

[HamdenRice]

113. Prednisone is a nasty, nasty "miracle" drug

I've seen it both save and ravage someone up close. I wonder whether it would even get passed as "safe and effective" if it were coming on market today.

Prednisone psychosis is a major risk, and it seems many docs are unaware of it's prevalence.

I know one doctor who will only prescribe it as a last resort, and complains that most conventional docs hand that crap out like candy.

[liberal renegade]

17. life causes death!

[CreekDog]

20. Define "conventional" medicine as well as the other kind

:eyes:

[Peregrine Took]

32. I would say it was typical medical practice found in almost every hospital

and medical practice in the western world with a few very brilliant exceptions.

For example - a "brilliant" exception - when I was a patient at the University of Chicago in the mid 1990's my western medicine gastroenteroligst had NO problem with my Traditional Chinese Medicine doctor coming to my room several times to administer acupuncture - the two types of medicine beautifully complimenting each other.

15 years later I'm doing so well - thanks to these two types of medicine - one specific to the problem but the other viewing the body as a "whole."

[BlooInBloo]

22. Damn snake oil new age false medicine pushers...

On the flip side, damn the hundreds of thousands of preventable medical errors every year that are repeatedly committed by about 15% of the medical community, but who refuse to police themselves.

[cobalt1999]

43. Great post.

You nailed it perfectly.

[Orrex]

101. That's an irrelevant bullshit position

First off, the multibillion-dollar alternative "medicine" industry sure as shit doesn't police itself, either, so proponents of that profitable snakeoil organization have absolutely no basis for complaining about the perceived failure of actual medicine to police itself.

Additionally, "preventable medical errors" is a category so broad that it includes everything from an infection developed in a hospital to your physician buddy accidentally hitting you with his 9-iron follow-through. Any category so artificially non-specific is guaranteed to yield hyperinflated numbers.

But even with that being the case, the number of people who derive real, verifiable medical benefit from actual medicine (so-called "allopathic" or "conventional" or "western" medicine by its detractors) vastly dwarfs the number of people harmed by it.

Contrast that with the number of people who derive real, verifiable medical benefit exclusively from alternative treatments (i.e., very close to zero). If you have examples of real, verifiable medical benefit derived exclusively from alternative treatments, I'd be greatly interested to hear of them.

For the record, that specifically excludes dietary changes (which fall under "western" medicine) and temporary ammelioration of chronic conditions (because chronic conditions by their nature go through cycles that are better and worse for the patients, and a temporary improvement can't reliably be attributed to an otherwise unverified alternative practice).

I'm sorry that Bernie Mac has died. And I'm sorry that he died due to complications following an illness that has been nearly invariably fatal for nearly its entire run throughout human history. Perhaps if Mac had lived prior to the development of germ theory, they could have given him a good colon cleansing and restored him immediately to full and robust health. :eyes:

[frogmarch]

24. What a crock of crap. n/t

[Peregrine Took]

25. I do both western med and traditional Chinese medicine (holistic) and would

never consider doing one without the other -esp for a serious condition, of which I have two.

Western medicine is great for bringing some really serious medical conditions under control but TCM (for example) pulls your whole body together and looks at it as "whole."

For example, my 80 year old relative is being treated for a heart condition and high bp by her cardiologist (specialist #1 among many other specialists) and she has an RX for a type of a diuretic from him BUT then she "goes" so much from the diuretic drug she can't sleep at night so her urologist treats her for overactive bladder for which she has an RX from him. Two drugs which compete with each other and concomitant side effects from both.

A holistic medicine doctor looks at the entire body (like an aerial view)and diagnoses from this whole body viewpoint seeing the body as a single unit rather than an infinite amount of "parts."

[ileus]

27. LOL...big crock.com

[jaysunb]

28. Thanks for posting this.

I lost my younger sister earlier this year to a chronic bronchial condition that was treated with steroids for more than 20 years. Her constant battle w/ pneumonia always baffled me, but I was always wary that the steroids were just covering the underlying problem. I expressed my concern about the steroids many times, but that's a difficult thing talk about or justify when you see how much better the person feels after treatment.
She was only 58 years old, and suffered through the best years of her life even though she was fully insured and lived in a city ( Cleveland ) that has some of the best medical facilities in the world.

Meanwhile, my 85 year old mother in law recently had emergency surgery where most of her intestines were removed. Seems she's had some sort of tear or obstruction that has been teated for over 30 years w/ steroids. They ( her regular doctors ) were surprised to hear that since they thought it was some sort of thyroid problem all these years.

This post gives much food for thought....

[Peregrine Took]

35. I agree - been there, done that. Frankly, I'm a little shocked at how

un-enlightened so many DU"rs are. So much of this is common knowledge nowadays, especially in areas that have teaching hospitals.

My Traditional Chinese Medicine internist gives classes at the the local medical schools and 'has been doing this for many years plus bringing students through his own practice here in Chicago.

[RB TexLa]

30. Humans dying? How could that happen? It must be stopped.

[Frank Cannon]

31. This thread needs an important disclaimer

Do not get your medical advice from Democratic Underground. Period.

[charlie and algernon]

33. lol, seriously

i prefer to get my medical advice from the people with MEDICAL degrees

[tabatha]

38. I have experienced bad medical advice from

people with medical degrees numerous times.

I have also experienced good advice from people who know how to keep the body healthy so that one does not require medical advice.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. So do you think that makes this article any less full of crap?

[charlie and algernon]

40. keeping healthy is one thing, having a serious condition or injury is another

What do you do if you're in a serious accident with serious injury? You going to tell the paramedics not to bother?

[progdonkey]

44. it's the same thing, dontcha know?

"Oh, that new, oddly-shaped mole on your face doesn't look cancerous to me. Now will that be paper or plastic?" :eyes:

[charlie and algernon]

45. it's still guess work

whether a medically licensed doctor or a hollistic expert tries to figure out what that mole really is. The other part of that question is a serious injury, what do you do? tell the paramedics to leave you alone and not fix the big gash in your leg?

[progdonkey]

54. yeah, but an educated guess is still better than a random one...

Holistic "experts" don't know any more about detecting cancerous cells than anyone else who's watched the Discovery Channel, so while licensed (i.e. real) doctors sometimes do get it wrong, the underlying method is still sound and evidence-based, whereas the holistic method is unsound and vacuous.

[charlie and algernon]

55. right. nt

[noiretextatique]

84. that's not exactly true

even licensed "real" doctors don't use methods that are evidence-based. there is conflicting evidence about he effectiveness of a certain drug used to treat breast cancer, but it is still routinely prescribed. "it's the best we have" is not exactly eveidence-based.

[LanternWaste]

70. Not so much guess work

Not so much guess work as it is blood work...

[tabatha]

51. See #51, and the last post.

[tabatha]

47. No, I never said that.

But medical advice is not infallible.

I had bad medical advice to the point where I had to go to another doctor, who gave the best service I could have hoped for.

But, in this country, too many medical conditions cold be avoided if healthy lifestyles were followed.

[charlie and algernon]

48. in that, i agree completely

I'm not denying that medical malpractice doesn't happen. If it does, that doctor should be punished. And yes, I do agree that keeping a healthy lifestyle CAN prevent some conditions. However, my problem is with the people who take the hollistic approach solely over proven medical treatments.

[eridani]

107. It's our comparatively healthy lifestyles that allow us to live long enough

--to get degenerate diseases in the first place. (I mean compared to 100 years ago.)

[trotsky]

90. Absofuckinglutely. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. FOR CLARIFICATION

I did not write this article so I cannot answer the questions many are posting. I merely thought it provided an interesting topic to discuss so I posted it. This is something I have done many times on DU - as have others.

I do NOT appreciate being accused of posting and running or of having a habit of doing that. In fact, I don't.

I also didn't intend to start a flame war. Like I said, I found this piece interesting. PERIOD.

Now let's all take the sticks out of our asses, okay? Sheesh.

[Catherine Vincent]

36. I understand.

Can't figure out why some jumped down your throat.:shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Their sticks must have thorns on them

:)

[tabatha]

41. I appreciate the article, and also the subsquent research I did

- it was educational.

I bookmarked the article.
It is amazing to me that people do not have minds open enough to learn from a variety of viewpoints.

Thanks.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. Thank you

I just think some people come here to fight. More so all the time.

[CreekDog]

62. don't open your mind so much that your brains fall out

:dilemma:

[knitter4democracy]

46. The reality is, autoimmune diseases are damn difficult to treat.

For some, change in diet works. For others, it's a certain vitamin regimen. For still others, the best treatments are the conventional ones. And, sadly, for too many, nothing works.

I'm sick and tired of people acting like, since one thing worked for a few, they have The Answer. They're as bad as brand new evangelical Christians in their zealotry. I've fought health problems for years, and I've had all sorts of people come up and tell me that I need to eat this and not that, no really do the opposite, try this supplement over this other one and on and on. My health situation is complicated, and I have several doctors involved (including my own husband), and I have tried a lot of those answers only to have them fail.

Prednisone's helped a huge number of people. I can't tolerate it at all (makes me severely manic until it wears off), but I have family members and friends who use it when they need to, and it helps them walk and function. They tend to use it in conjunction with a huge non-traditional regimen as well, but to say that prednisone is evil ignores the scads of evidence that says otherwise.

Bernie Mac, may he rest in peace, suffered from a horrible disease and yet managed to do great things. Let's remember him for that.

[tabatha]

50. Best response

"I'm sick and tired of people acting like, since one thing worked for a few, they have The Answer." - can equally be applied to people who dismiss all alternative methods out of hand.

One has to keep an open mind. There is a large volume of side-effects of medications - but some people are not affected. There are a lot of diets that help some people, and not others.

It is a huge territory - with new discoveries being made every day. I read an article where VitC injected into a tumor acts contrary to its normal anti-oxidant behavior by creating hydrogen peroxide, an oxidant, that actually fights tumors. Maybe it behaves like a buffer solution in a different way. Another doctor in Italy is treating cancers with a buffer solution - baking soda - he believes cancers are actually the body's reaction to fungi - and do not thrive in an alkaline environment. About 90% of cancer patients have candida, that can be treated with diet, as can be done with diabetes.

So keeping an open mind and remembering something could help someone down the line, who knows.

[knitter4democracy]

52. Considering the huge number of supplements I take, I'm not closeminded.

I can't take most medicines. My own doctor admitted that she's scared to prescribe anything new anymore after the last few bad reactions, and I agree with her. I handle supplements much better than most medicines.

The problem is, you need both. Complementary medicine has been shown to work the best--not purely alternative/natural or purely allopathic. People need to talk with their doctors, do some research, and try things. If it works, then great--but don't assume that means it'll work for anyone else.

I had a huge tumor in my right kidney. The only treatment proven to work is to take it all out intact and make sure to get clean margins. I went with the proven treatment, and thank God, I'm still here.

[tabatha]

53. What are the best supplements you have found?

[knitter4democracy]

57. Mine are more tailored for kidney and fibro issues.

Bone Builder has really helped with this year's broken bones (two ribs and an elbow). The Solaray Kidney SP-6 seems to help, as does their cranberry for UTIs. I also take a probiotic and CoQ10 with Omega 3 fatty acids and Fibro Response (I forget the name of the company, but that one really helps with my low energy issues and pain). My doctor has me on at least 1000 units of vitamin D a day, and that also seems to make a big difference in my energy level (we went through all of my supplements to make sure I take the right amount, as a couple of them are composites of a bunch of different stuff).

I also take Prevacid for GERD, Claritin to keep my histamine levels in check, and Singulair and Pulmacort for my asthma with Xopenex if my asthma's really bad.

No one's really sure what's wrong with me. Ever since the two major surgeries in 2006, things have been out of whack. Thank goodness I don't have the pain from the chronic appendicitis anymore, but I still have some pain and really low energy with vertigo and nausea. The ENT is checking me out thoroughly, worried about the vertigo, considering my weird medical history, so we'll see what his tests say.

[tabatha]

66. Thanks, interesting.

I have just ordered the following book. I have read about low/no sugar and alkaline guidelines for diet, but have been unable to reconcile how to use meat - no sugar but acid food. I am hoping the diet in this book will answer those questions. I was impressed by the comments about the book.

http://www.amazon.com/Fungus-Link-Introduction-Disease-Including/dp/0970341806/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218483080&sr=8-1

[noiretextatique]

80. i absolutely agree with you

complimentary treatments work for me. i had a lumpectomy to remove a cancerous tumor from my breast, i did radiation, and i take tamoxifen. but i also have acupuncture, reiki, and i switched to a mostly raw foods diet. i believe doing all of these things will decrease my risk of recurrence, not just taking the drug.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

78. 90% of cancer patients have Candida?

According to who and what is that evidence of?

David

[knitter4democracy]

88. It's a constant theory.

I run into that one all the time. The problem is, testing for Candida is actually pretty easy (look for it in the blood if you think it's systemic) but the theorists don't do that. Instead, they have a laundry list of symptoms (one book I read was just plain nuts on the list--everything from soup to nuts) and say that if you have any of them, you have an overgrowth of yeast in your body. If they find yeast anywhere at all (even in places where it's normally found), they shout aha! and then tell you to cut all refined flours and sugars from your diet and start cutting out natural starches as much as possible so as to not give the yeast food to live on.

I tried it, but then I realized that, in taking fluconasol for yeast infections, I probably had killed any systemic yeast infection and yet still felt like crap. On to the next theory . . .

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

108. The literature she seems to be referring to is in regards to cancer patients who are being treated.

It would only make sense that chemo patients would have a high rate of candida.


David

[knitter4democracy]

111. Higher rates for all infections, true.

Still, it's not like we don't have treatments for that.

[LeftishBrit]

91. THANK YOU!

I have taken prednisone for Crohn's disease and I am well aware of the side effects- BUT it worked to get me into complete remission.

Dietary and lifestyle measures have helped me, but were not enough on their own.

People don't generally take powerful medicines just for fun, or without awareness of the side-effects. Some people find the side-effects worse than the disease and give up the medication. Many others find the side-effects of the medicine more tolerable than those of the disease. And sometimes people who cannot tolerate one medicine have fewer side-effects when they switch to another.

It should not be treated as an ideological or moral issue. As I've said elsewhere, some of the crusades against 'conventional medicine' remind me of the crusades against stem cell research, etc.

[knitter4democracy]

112. I have knitting friends who have Crohn's. Nasty disease.

One's been on just about every treatment out there since she was 12 and still suffers too much from it. Another almost died if it weren't for a determined surgeon (she has Crohn's and lupus and two other things--very scary health history there, but she's the nicest person).

Prednisone exists for a reason, and it has saved lives. Personally, I can't tolerate it, but for those who can, it's made the difference between walking and not walking.

People who hate modern medicine have their reasons, and I know I'm the first to question everything, given what I've been through, but I think turning against all modern medicine is the kind of dumb decision that kills.

[Johonny]

56. yes science is bad

clearly if only we had the medical knowledge of ancient people that died at a vastly younger age than the average modern human we would all be better off.

[Lisa0825]

61. !

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

It amazes me that in other areas, we tend to love science... such as in environmental matters, evolution, etc... but for medicine, just about anything passes for a cure around here. I agree that some traditional methods have proven effects. But to put it above science based medicine is just ridiculous. And furthermore, if people actually applied scientific reasoning to some alternative treatments, it would be clear why they don't work.... ie "water has memory"???

[tabatha]

68. Really?

"it would be clear why they don't work". Any scientific proof?

There have been many reports to the contrary.

Did you know that one of the remedies for breast cancer was taken from the Yew tree, and is used by mainstream medicine.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1016/is_n7-8_v97/ai_11012477

On edit: It is all scientific. Any natural process is chemistry in action. It becomes "science" when people understand and analyze it. Ancient people who did not have access to science, used many plants that have been adopted by science. If you read the "Natural Remedies" by National Geographic you will discover that many plants are used in chemotherapy cocktails.

[Lisa0825]

75. You misread my post.

I said that I know that some things passed down through tradition DO work. But some other things are so out of the realm of logic that there is no scientific basis for them whatsoever. I am well aware of chemotherapies being derived from natural sources, and they are proven through extensive clinical trials before being widely used. The same cannot be said for homeopathic "remedies" which rely on dilutions until no active ingredient is detectable, but they claim the "water has memory" from being in contact with the substance.

Medical science can certainly be supplemented by other good practices... Vitamins, yes. Many supplements, yes. Nutrition, absolutely! But there is a lot of quackery that is accepted at face value around here. The Health forum is really run amock with it.

[tabatha]

85. I have never been to the health forum.

[BurtWorm]

58. Oh my God! When will the dying stop!

:eyes:

[Lance_Boyle]

59. in other words, he should've chanted "woo woo" repeatedly to cure himself.

:eyes:

[DailyGrind51]

60. As a 26-year cancer survivor, I did fairly well with conventional treatment protocols!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

63. Another death due to chemtrails.

Thanks, Boeing.

[jakem]

64. FWIW- all medicine has its strengths and weaknesses.

I am a practitioner of Chinese Medicine. For those of you who are ready to dismiss this, it means I spent about 5,000 hours in classes and clinics treating patients, followed by 8 years and maybe 10,000 appointments in private practice. I am licensed by my state medical board.

I have seen plenty of patients getting very questionable care from their MDs, as well as plenty getting questionable care from alternative practitioners. But in general:

- western medicine is very good at treating trauma (thank you wars!)

- western medicine is generally quite bad at treating conditions that are not well defined by the basics of the medicine (ie- things that are easily QUANTIFIABLE)

- Chinese medicine (and I will leave other practices out of this, as that is a whole other ball game!), is very good at treating QUALITATIVE problems that conventional medicine does not. If you feel crummy for 'no reason,' your MD will be of little to no use. Ditto if your disease is not one that anyone knows much about. Medicine can only address what is in its scope of philosophy.

In the grand scheme of things, I know the following:

- do not go to your acupuncturist if you have been hit by a bus. You call them after the the ER has stabilized you, and then there are some amazing things they can offer to speed your healing. And,

- Pharmaceuticals should be a medicine of last resort. Not that they don't often help, but they do also kill you.


Everything is medicine. Everything is poison. Dosage is essential.

[tabatha]

67. Absolutely!!

I was overdosed with cipro and am paying the price. My own research has shown there were better more effective natural remedies, which the doctor knew nothing about.

[noiretextatique]

83. thanks for sharing your very sensible post

i use a mix of western and chinese medicine to treat my breast cancer, and to survive the treatment.

[Blu Dahlia]

65. I'm trying a natural approach to deal with something

Uterine fibroids. I would rather try that first than rushing to go under the knife!

[crimsonblue]

72. Piss off to idiots that claim to know better than doctors

20 minutes of googling does not make you qualified to examine medical diagnoses. Most hospitals have morbidity and mortality conferences to examine unusual cases and determine if the doctor made the correct decisions. Stop being stereotypical crazy leftists that hate modern medicine. Ducking idiots.

[noiretextatique]

82. doctors almost killed me

you had better believe i don't trust them until they earn my trust.

[sabbat hunter]

74. a load of doo doo

because they never gave an exam to Bernie Mac. This is just as bad as when Bill Frist diagnosed that woman via a video

[Bright Eyes]

76. "Bernie Mac didn't really have sarcoidosis;

he was merely given that label by doctors who attached a fancy name to a pattern of symptoms that Bernie Mac expressed."

Seeing that the author isn't a doctor, nor was involved in Bernie Mac's treatment, the author is HARDLY qualified to state that as a fact.

Looks like another anti-medicine hit piece to me.

[glitch]

77. How dare you question conventional

anything?

Get back in line and for God's sake stop trying to form your own opinion, and especially don't spread this type of subversion around. Knock it off now or I may have to come back and ridicule you.

:evilgrin:

[noiretextatique]

81. seems to be the consensus

but i've known several people who've dramatically improved their health just by eating raw foods.

[glitch]

92. You meet enough individuals and suddenly the consensus doesn't seen quite so wise.

I prefer the margins. Agreed about the raw foods.

[varkam]

86. Yawn.

I got excited, then I realized what the source was. Nap time!

[progressoid]

87. Maybe Adam and Senator Frist can start their own clinic diagnosing people via news reports and email

:crazy:

[bonito]

89. Silver is your friend n/t

[trotsky]

93. 9 out of 10 right-wing whacko politicians agree!

[bonito]

95. I was waiting for a parroted response

You either have NO experience with it or just THAT.

[trotsky]

99. Do you deny that argyria is a possible side effect of taking silver? n/t

[beam me up scottie]

100. Isn't "THAT" enough?

You would think that not wanting to look like Grover would be plenty for most people.

[Orrex]

104. Wait--I've got silver in my teeth! Is this another amalgam thread?

All this fear-mongering pseudoscientific alternative nonsense kind of blends together after a while.

[Orrex]

102. Nice post, Gargamel

Leave Papa Smurf out of this!

[trotsky]

103. "Is it far, Papa Smurf?"

"Yes, the DU Health Forum is about as far from a rational discussion of health-related issues as you'll find."

[Orrex]

105. You know, "DU Health Forum" is an anagram of "Humorful Death"

Which is what you'll get, I suppose, if you forego actual medical treatment in favor of some of the wacky alternative theories espoused here.


Got to love those online anagram generators. Another one is "heard mouthful," which seems fitting for some of the anti-amalgam threads that pop up here.

[noiretextatique]

110. some medical treatments are wacky

case in point: mammosite. it's all the rage among surgeons, but most radiologists don't use it. my radiologist called it an experimental treatment. but that doesn't stop the company that developed the procedure from marketing it in women's magazines and to surgeons.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

94. Environmental factors

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18326339?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

More at link:

>>The lung is commonly involved by various granulomatous diseases of various etiology. It is difficult to pathologically differentiate these granuloumatous diseases to conduct appropriate therapy, because of morphological similarity of epithelioid cell granuloma, variable etiology, and difficulty of identification of causative agents. Granulomatous diseases generally are divided into infectious and non-infectious ones for treatment. Although infectious granulomas usually reveal necrosis and abscess, non-infectious ones occasionally also reveal necrosis.

In cases with granulomas in the lung, it is necessary to explore the etiologic agents including environmental ones. 3. Sarcoidosis and Propionibacterium acnes: Yoshinobu EISHI (Department of Pathology, Tokyo Medical and Dental University) P. acnes can cause latent infection in peripheral lung tissue and the mediastinal lymph nodes and persist intracellularly in a cell-wall-deficient form. This dormant form of P. acnes can be activated endogenously under certain environmental conditions (hormones, stress, living habits, etc.) and proliferate in cells at the sites of latent infection.

Granulomatous inflammation occurs in sarcoidosis patients with hypersensitivity to intracellular proliferation of the cell-wall-deficient bacteria, which can infect other cells or organs when spread via the lymphatic or blood streams. The timely use of antibiotics may not only kill the bacteria proliferating at the site of disease activity, but also prevent endogenous activation of P. acnes. If long term administration of antibiotics eradicates dormant forms of the bacteria persistent in organs, it may lead to complete remission of sarcoidosis.<<

[HysteryDiagnosis]

96. Quercitin, don't know the results, the sweepers can find them but

I wonder how much if any quercitin or any other health supporting supplements Bernie was awarded by the professionals who took care of him.

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00512967?term=sarcoidosis&intr=antioxidant&rank=1&show_desc=Y#desc
Detailed Description:

Interstitial lung diseases (ILD) include various chronic lung disorders such as sarcoidosis and idiopathic lung fibrosis (IPF). In the Netherlands the incidence of sarcoidosis is approximately 20-25 per 100.000 inhabitants whereas that of IPF is approximately 1000-1500 new cases each year.

In short, three different stages in the development of ILD can be discerned. Firstly, the lung tissue is damaged. In sarcoidosis this damage is thought to be antigen-driven, multisystemically and leading to the formation of granuloma. Moreover, it is suggested that genetic factors play an important role in the genesis of sarcoidosis. In IPF the exact etiology of this damage is unknown, but it has been speculated to be inflicted by an unidentified stimulus that produces repeated episodes of acute lung injury Secondly, the walls of the air sacs in the lung become inflamed as a reaction to the caused damage. This results in the activation of inflammatory cells like macrophages that cause the expression of pro-inflammatory cytokines, especially interleukin-10 and tumour necrosis factor (TNF)-alpha, in the lungs.

Finally, scarring (or fibrosis) begins in the interstitium (or tissue between the air sacs) and the lung becomes stiff, causing an irreversible loss of the tissue's ability to transfer oxygen.

It is well-known that inflammation plays a key-role in the occurrence and progression of ILD, although the long-lasting hypothesis that inflammation alone leads to fibrosis is being questioned at the moment. Conventional treatment of ILD comprises nonspecific anti-inflammatory agents such as glucocorticoids (prednisone) and other immune-suppressing medication such as cyclophosphamide, methotrexate and gamma-interferon. However, all these therapies fail to be completely efficacious, suggesting that inflammation alone is indeed not solely responsible for the occurrence and progression of ILD. Paradoxically, anti-TNF-α agents such as infliximab and thalidomide have recently shown some beneficial effects in sarcoidosis.

A pivotal role for reactive oxygen species (ROS) in all three stages has also been proposed. Various biomarkers of oxidative stress, i.e. exhaled ethane and both 8-isoprostane and oxidized proteins in the bronchoalveolar fluid, are elevated in ILD patients of different clinical stages. However, only little is known about the effect of this elevated oxidative stress on the endogenous antioxidant levels present in ILD. Interestingly, clinical administration of an antioxidant, i.e. N-acetylcysteine (NAC), to IPF patients has recently demonstrated that this slows the deterioration of vital capacity and carbon monoxide diffusing capacity (DLCO) at 12 months. This supports the hypothesis that oxidative stress is involved in ILD and proofs the principle of antioxidant treatment in ILD.

It is well-known that oxidative stress and inflammation are intertwined and that the pro-inflammatory cytokine TNF-alpha is capable of stimulating oxidative stress in various cells and tissues. As a result, the preliminary beneficial effects of anti-TNF-alpha agents combined with the preliminary beneficial effects of antioxidants in ILD may indicate that a new strategy of treatment of ILD should ideally combine the reduction of both the oxidative stress and the inflammation occurring in these diseases.

Recently, much attention has been given to the potential health-beneficial properties of flavonoids, natural occurring polyphenolic compounds, and to quercetin, the most commonly occurring flavonoid, in particular. Quercetin is known to be a powerful antioxidant and to possess some anti-inflammatory effects. It is therefore tempting to speculate that quercetin could exert positive effects in ILD.

Since the anti-oxidative and inflammatory changes in ILD are still not exactly known, the aim of the present study is to determine both the anti-oxidant and the inflammatory status in ILD, i.e. sarcoidosis and fibrosis. Furthermore, the possible anti-inflammatory effect of antioxidants on LPS-induced cytokine production, exemplified with the flavonoid quercetin, will be examined.

[dropkickpa]

98. Sarcoidosis, 2 types of pneumonia

Yeah, it's the medicine that killed him.

[Liberal Veteran]

109. If he could have just had his aura cleansed, he'd be alive today.

:sarcasm:

[tburnsten]

114. I like you N/T