Whooping cough vaccine not as powerful as thought ~ AJC

[mzmolly]

ATLANTA JOURNAL

A cluster of whooping cough cases among Cobb County elementary students is adding to concerns that an important vaccine isn’t as effective as it needs to be to stop the spread of disease.

...

Of the 18 students in the recent Cobb cluster, 17 were properly immunized with five doses of DTaP vaccine, which protects against diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis, health officials said.

...

While no vaccine is 100 percent effective, some parents are surprised and angry that a vaccine they trusted is failing to protect some children. And officials with the Georgia Division of Public Health said too many local doctors are not aware the disease is circulating in the community and can infect fully vaccinated children.

...

Despite the study’s test results, some doctors refused to believe parents when they said that their children had pertussis. “More than one said to the parent: ‘Well, your child couldn’t have had pertussis, your child’s been vaccinated,” Gabel said, adding that the department is working to educate physicians.

[sallylou666]

1. Parents and kids should get recommended boosters

My family all got boosters for pertussis last year (kids and adults). It's not required but recommended. I got my kids a booster for varicella. I also had my teenager vaccinated for meningitis, which is also recommended for high school students. Parents need to be proactive about vaccinations. The schools require only the mandatory vaccinations which lag behind the recommendations.

[mzmolly]

2. They didn't have an adult booster until recently.

Yet we were supposedly protected for decades.

[cosmik debris]

3. Most of us were protected for decades.

That's what herd immunity is all about.

[xchrom]

4. don't ask that that little point be understood by the 'concerned'. nt

[mzmolly]

8. I understand the concept of herd immunity, The children in the article were failed in this regard.

Do you understand the concept of reporting bias?

[xchrom]

33. imagine you asking someone if they understand bias?

:rofl: the irony gods are having a field day.

[mzmolly]

34. Indeed they are.

I'm fully supportive of the choice to vaccinate or not, you on the other hand ....

[beam me up scottie]

5. "In the 1920s and 1930s, there were more than 160,000 cases and more than 5,000 deaths each year."

"The real issue is what the rate of vaccine failure is," said Orenstein, a former CDC official who recently became deputy director for vaccine preventable diseases at the Gates Foundation in Seattle.

It’s possible, Orenstein said, that the sick children were simply among the expected 15 percent of people immunized that the vaccine fails to protect.

Despite concerns about pertussis, the reported cases are still far fewer than before a vaccine became available.

In the 1920s and 1930s, there were more than 160,000 cases and more than 5,000 deaths each year. After the introduction of a pertussis vaccine in the 1940s, reports dropped dramatically. In 1976, just 1,010 cases were reported — the record low.

It's not the scientists who are dishonest, anti-vaccinationists are the ones claiming vaccines need to be 100% safe and 100% effective.

[mzmolly]

7. As the article notes, many Doctors are telling patients they can't possibly have whooping cough

because they've been vaccinated, as such one can't say for certain how many cases we've had since we've started mass vaccination.

No one is suggesting we stop vaccinating.

[beam me up scottie]

12. "many doctors" ? Try reading it again, it says "some" and "more than one"

Despite the study’s test results, some doctors refused to believe parents when they said that their children had pertussis. “More than one said to the parent: "Well, your child couldn’t have had pertussis, your child’s been vaccinated," Gabel said, adding that the department is working to educate physicians.

Which is why

Earlier this month, the state health department sent a blast fax to area pediatricians and family doctors alerting them to be on the lookout for pertussis.

And again:

"The real issue is what the rate of vaccine failure is," said Orenstein, a former CDC official who recently became deputy director for vaccine preventable diseases at the Gates Foundation in Seattle.

It’s possible, Orenstein said, that the sick children were simply among the expected 15 percent of people immunized that the vaccine fails to protect.

Sounds like the doctors and scientists are working to identify the problem and find a solution.

[mzmolly]

15. "Some" is likely "many" if not "most." As for working "together" to address

"the problem" ~ They're working on promoting a booster shot. I hope you've had yours? ;)

Do you suppose we'll see a "surge in disease" when Dr.s are told to be on the look out for Pertussis among the vaccinated? I do. In fact, I'll predict it right here, right now.

[beam me up scottie]

17. Anti-vaccinistas are no better than the Pope who claims condoms don't prevent AIDS.

People who try to scare parents into not vaccinating their children are just as morally bankrupt.


As far as questioning the motives of doctors, I refuse to discuss the matter with posters who are willfully ignorant of science and regularly use this forum for fear mongering.

[mzmolly]

18. When all else fails,

defer to nonsense.

[beam me up scottie]

19. Medical science is nonsense to you.

You have zero credibility.

[cosmik debris]

20. Just a few weeks ago she was a rabid anti-vaxer

Now she pretends it never happened.

Oh well.

[beam me up scottie]

22. Maybe it's ageism.

Old vaccines are pseudoscience, new ones are the only ones that work?

Do you think new vaccinations still cause autism?

[mzmolly]

24. Unlike yourself,

I demand proof that something "works" before assuming it does. Just because I'm encouraged by new vaccination techniques, does not mean I have an opinion about the safety and efficacy of a particular vaccine. However, the parents in the article who's children were fully vaccinated, might take an issue with your assertion that the "old" vaccine "works" eh?

[beam me up scottie]

26. "I demand proof that something "works" Sure you do, like your proof that vaccines cause autism

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[mzmolly]

28. What word?

I've addressed your strawman on vaccines and autism in another response.

[beam me up scottie]

30. Pick one: "works" or "proof"

However, the parents in the article who's children were fully vaccinated, might take an issue with your assertion that the "old" vaccine "works" eh?

The parents of the tens of thousands of children whose kids didn't get whooping cough might take issue with your "proof" that it doesn't.

When it comes to immunization, vaccines work.

Prayer, quackery and pseudoscience don't.

[mzmolly]

32. LOL

Laughable. Par for the course though...

[cosmik debris]

25. If they don't cause autism, they cause promiscuity

They cause pure white virgins to seek out dark skinned foreigners to soil their loins.

[beam me up scottie]

27. Oops, almost forgot that right wing talking point.

Same source as the anti-vaccination propaganda: obvious brain damage.

[mzmolly]

29. Oh goody,

more unrelated nonsense!

Enjoy your absurd discussion, I'm out.

[mzmolly]

23. I was labled a "rabid anti-vaxer"

true. Have you ever been called a "shill for big pharma?"

[mzmolly]

21. Strategy numero dos ...

2. After spewing nonsense, toss about bullshit insults.

[beam me up scottie]

31. "Many doctors now argue that reporters should treat the antivaccine lobby with the same indifference

"Many doctors now argue that reporters should treat the antivaccine lobby with the same indifference they do Holocaust deniers, AIDS deniers and those claiming to have proof that NASA faked the Moon landings."

[mzmolly]

6. How do you know that's the case?

When questioned, the CDC couldn't offer me any scientific data on how long the vaccine offers so called protection. All they can share is when they recommend a booster.

[cosmik debris]

9. The statistics speak for themselves.

I know you will never believe any evidence that doesn't confirm your anti-vax prejudice, but as the population increased dramatically, the number of deaths decreased dramatically. The major factor that changed was that more people got vaccinated.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you because you have repeatedly demonstrated that you are completely closed minded and consumed by your prejudice. I just wanted to present a rational alternative to your fear mongering. And I will continue to do that.


:hi:

[mzmolly]

10. Not really Cosmik.

The statistics are influenced by reporting bias as the article mentions. If a death is not attributed to the actual cause, of course stats will be skewed.

Again, I'm not anti-vaccine. I want vaccines available to all who want them.

Peace CD. :hi:

[cosmik debris]

11. Like I said,

You won't believe it unless it confirms your prejudice. That's why there can be no debate with you.

:hi:

[mzmolly]

13. Likewise.

Though I'm not prejudice for or against vaccination. I'm simply opposed to calling marketing, science. ;)

[cosmik debris]

14. You have a long history of anti-vax posts in this group.

You may pretend that it isn't true, but the history is clear.

[mzmolly]

16. I have a history of informative

posts. I posted an article from a mainstream news source which quotes the CDC. You're free to deem me "anti-vaccination" for doing so, if you like.