Experts: Biden wrong on the way germs travel through an aircraft

[Old Hank]

Politifact.com
May 4, 2009

Vice President Biden said on April 30:

"I would tell members of my family, and I have, I wouldn't go anywhere in confined places now. It's not that it's going to Mexico, it's you're in a confined aircraft. When one person sneezes it goes all the way through the aircraft. That's me. I would not be, at this point, if they had another way of transportation, suggesting they ride the subway. So from my perspective what it relates to is mitigation. If you're out in the middle of a field and someone sneezes, that's one thing; if you're in a closed aircraft or closed container or closed car or closed classroom, it's a different thing."

But Dr. Tony Overfelt of Auburn University told Politifact.com that "The particles from a sneeze might travel a row or a couple of rows or something like that..."
"They're really not going to travel up and down the airplane as our vice president said."

Furthermore,

• A 2002 report from the National Research Council noted that tuberculosis studies on airplanes found that infections were generally restricted to "a few passengers seated close to the passenger with active tuberculosis."

• A 2003 study in the New England Journal of Medicine on severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) found that patients who became infected on airplanes were "clustered in the few rows directly in front of or behind the ill passenger, rather than being randomly distributed throughout the aircraft."

Read more: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/may/04/joe-biden/biden-wrong-way-germs-travel-through-aircraft/

[kestrel91316]

1. Recirculation of the same stale air has to play some role, however.

Otherwise, why would CDC and WHO be so emphatic about the importance of fresh air in decreasing the risk of transmission of flu in the home?

[pnwmom]

2. I agree. n/t

[Old Hank]

3. I think there's a key difference between aircrafts and homes in this respect

From the article:
And though it's not required, most commercial jets use high efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filters, which remove the moisture that would likely carry any viruses, Overfelt said.

I doubt the average home has that thingamajigg.

[kestrel91316]

8. I didn't know about the HEPA filtration. Now all we need is something to

get rid of the kerosene fumes when the damned things are on the ground. I always dread being in a plane idling on the tarmac with engines running - gives me a migraine.

[populistdriven]

4. wasnt there 20 people who got sars from a single flight?

[Old Hank]

5. 20 people from a hospital staff got infected after a patient was brought in

Maybe that's what you are referring to: http://www.idebate.org/debatabase/topic_details.php?topicID=230

[TankLV]

6. but enough talking about REPUKES...tonite's breaking news...

[izquierdista]

7. Bullshit, Doc.

I'm going to have to call bullshit on this one. A couple of studies of two diseases does not qualify as ample scientific evidence. I'm still going to accept the VP's hypotheses as it is closer to my personal experience until Dr. Tony comes up with some more conclusive studies.

[Old Hank]

9. "my personal experience"

Can you expand on your personal experience on the spread of viruses in aircrafts?

[izquierdista]

10. They spread to me

I loathe flying as the confined space and the recirculated air give me about a 1 in 3 chance of getting some sort of head cold. Just what the VP was alluding to. I need to see more data before I take these glib reassuring statements on face value.

[Old Hank]

11. Ok but do you know who spreads it to you?

Is it someone from the rows immediately ahead and behind you? Or someone all the way in the other side of the aircraft?

[Gman]

12. All I know is I got on a plane in Pittsburgh headed for Las Vegas

a 4 hour plus flight. I felt just fine when I got on the plane. when I got off I had the worst upper respiratory infection I had had in a long time. I had a horribly scratchy throat, I had a terribly congested head and I was sick the entire time I was i.n Vegas

So no one can convince me there's nothing wrong with the air in a plane.

[Old Hank]

13. The experts did not claim that there is "nothing wrong" with the air in a plane

They simply noted that the risk lies in the rows closest to the people, in contrast to what Biden said, namely, the baseless assertion that when one person sneezes the particles go all the way through the aircraft.

[Tumbulu]

14. Yeah, but who controls where they sit on the plane?

Once a baby threw up all over my one and only business suit- where was I supposed to move to then?. Good grief. I agree very strongly with our VP as one does not get to say who one sits next to.

Maybe the virus does not spread all over the aircraft, but it is an unknown who will be around you. And if they are carrying something contagious.

[Old Hank]

15. Right. But Biden made the risk seem bigger than it is

Of course you can get infected by a sneezing person.

But to claim that when one person sneezes his particles can reach virtually everyone in the plane is an overstatement and a falsehood, and that's what the article noted.

[Tumbulu]

16. but since no one controls who they get to sit next to

it is the same idea. I think people being too literal is a problem. The idea he expressed is spot on. Just not the mechanics, perhaps.

[Old Hank]

17. The risk would be much higher if Biden's claim were true

Think about it. A passenger would consider the following risks before boarding a plane:

a) One person with flu sneezes in the plane with the mouth uncovered, everyone's screwed.

versus

b) One person with flu sneezes while sitting close to me with the mouth uncovered, and a few people are screwed.

In Biden's world, a person would have no choice but to stay home. In the real world, you would have to have very bad luck to get infected.

[Tumbulu]

19. Come on now, your chance of getting sneezed on is about 1/20 on a mid sized plane

and higher on a small plane. That is too high for me since you have no say in where you sit. That is high enough to not get on a plane at all if one can avoid it. This would be my advice if someone asked me. He is being an honest person, not a politician answering the question the way he did.

Why do we get vaccinated? We don't (at least I don't) want to get an illness if I can avoid it.

[pleah]

18. .....

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/04/20/video-super-slow-motion-sneezing/



:wow: