any actual evidence for glucosamimine chondritine?

[mopinko]

sorry if i misspelled that. vet is recommending this for a dog with serious joint issues. has a combo with fish oil, vit e&c. pricey.
i never thought this stuff was anything but woo, but if there is data, fine. bought one bottle. will try it. the dog is in a bad way. but in the meantime, i would like to know what the du brain trust has to say. the usual woo pitchers can go ahead and post, but i want actual facts. no "suggests" or other waffle words, please.

[Orrex]

1. There's a lot of evidence that people believe it works, which is enough for some people

But in terms of actual benefits measurable in a clear, empirical fashion, well...

[jjanpundt]

2. My aunt has rheumatoid arthritis and takes a combo of

glucosamine and chondtrotin (I don't know how to spell it either). She swears the stuff works wonders.

[thunder rising]

3. Was it easier to type that statement than say enter a few words on google?

[knowbody0]

7. she's asking for DU experience

[elocs]

9. I would be lost without google. It is so easy to find out more info than I know what to do with

about virtually anything.

[mopinko]

10. what makes you think i didn't?

just happen to think that it is a topic that the du braintrust might have a unique perspective on. beside, this is, like, a discussion board, i think.

was it easier for you to type that statement than to just ignore the question if you didn't have anything intelligent to say?

[peace13]

13. What is the point of having a 'health' forum if one can't ask about health issues.

Lighten up! Google is fantastic but I have to ask myself, was this review written by the manufacture. So you see Google isn't fool proof either.

[rubberducky]

4. Costco is the cheapest in my area. Many people I know swear by it.

[old mark]

5. I have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence - some of ti from my wife,

who took it for a time before having both knees and a shoulder replaced. It seems to work on moderate joint deterioration to some degree, releives moderate pain and eases motion.
I have also seen it rec'd for dogs with joint problems pretty frequently. There is a lot of info on Google about its use for canines.
Aspirin - coated, enteric standard dose - also works well for dogs.

mark

[mopinko]

12. yeah, she will be getting some pain meds as well.

but she is in sad shape.

[old mark]

24. My dog has a tumor in his neck that is surrounding his throat -

he has difficulty breathing, and it seems to be in a place that has a lot of nerves and is considered very difficult surgery, especially for an old guy like him. He gets prednisone and takes human allergy pills, and had a lot better breathing, sleeps well and is rigt now out barking at a guy in the alley cleaning his car. He is a very happy, smart dog, and the pills are really helping him so much that he does not fight too much when I give them to him. This is good for me, too, since hs is a Doberman/Great Dane, and I like my fingers as they are.

I hope your dog gets some benefit from the meds.
Good luck.

mark

[SPedigrees]

17. delete (sorry replied to the wrong post.)

[Buzz Clik]

6. My brother recommended that I take it for my ailing ankle. After a month, I stopped.

The thought is that it doesn't help the joint but only keeps if from getting worse.

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. I used it for bursitis when I was building the house.

It helped a lot.

[Lerkfish]

11. my wife uses it and it works for her knee (arthritis)

before she started taking it she couldn't even climb steps without a lot of pain.
Now she has a lot more flexibility and I don't hear her complain bout her knee anymore.

I don't think it cures anything, but as long as it eases my wife's discomfort, that's a good thing.

[elocs]

14. My doctor recommended that I take it, more for prevention than anything else.

He said to buy Glucosamine Chondroiton + MSM. I usually buy mine at Walgreens because they always seem to have a buy one, get one free on some brand.

I am 57 years old and I have to confess that I wake up in the morning and appreciate the fact that nothing on me hurts. I don't know if the G/C contributes to that, but it doesn't hurt.

[texanshatingbush]

15. I used it on my elderly dog with GOOD results!

He was a golden retriever/german shepherd mix, about 95 pounds. Had some mild hip displasia problems, and arthritis in spine.

Within two weeks, I was seeing results. He could simply move better, get up and down better--it was obvious from watching him run around the yard. I ran out of it once, and within a week or two I could tell that he was having trouble moving again, so I got more, PDQ!

[eShirl]

16. well, our old cat seemed more chipper when we gave him some

treats for cats called SeaFlex
"rich in Omega-3 marine fatty acids with patented Sea Chondroitin(R), Glucosamine HCL, Taurine and Catnip in a tasty morsel cats love."

Could have been just the catnip, I guess, but for whatever reason he did seem to brighten up noticeably, and they were about 11 bucks a packet.

The same company, NutriSea, makes a similar product for dogs called Sea Jerky. I just googled and found their website if you're interested http://www.coastsidebio.com/

[SPedigrees]

18. My vet recommended it too and after a month my old collie could do the stairs

in front of the house, whereas before that he would stand at the bottom and cry, and I'd have to take him around to the back so he could use the ramp. She said that the more you give the better, and that twice a day is better than once a day. Here's a link to the cheapest place I've found on the web to buy it:
http://www.americannutrition.com/store/CN-Glucosamine-Chondroitin-and-MSM-Extra-Strength-40-Day-Supply-120Tabs.html
I give my 65 lb dog 2 capsules (sprinkled on his food) twice daily, and half that to my little sheltie who weighs about 1/2 that.
My vet recommended Glucosamine-Chondroitin but was not dispensing it, so there was no profit motive in her advice. Aging hubby and moi also take it and we have noticed a substantial lessening of arthritic pain.

I've read a lot of positive research results, but this is the only link I've actually saved:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Geriatrics/Arthritis/12682

BTW, fish oil capsules also will help your dog. They have an anti-inflammatory effect.

[laughingliberal]

19. Found a study that showed results for those with moderate to severe pain

This study tested 5 treatment groups. 1 group was given Celebrex, 1 group took glucosamine alone, 1 group took chondroitin sulfate alone, 1 group took a combination of glucosamine and chondroitin, 1 group was given a placebo. Study was double blinded and was conducted over 24 weeks. Here are their results:


What were the key results of the study?
Researchers found that:

Participants taking the positive control, celecoxib, experienced statistically significant pain relief versus placebo—about 70 percent of those taking celecoxib had a 20 percent or greater reduction in pain versus about 60 percent for placebo.
Overall, there were no significant differences between the other treatments tested and placebo.

For a subset of participants with moderate-to-severe pain, glucosamine combined with chondroitin sulfate provided statistically significant pain relief compared with placebo—about 79 percent had a 20 percent or greater reduction in pain versus about 54 percent for placebo. According to the researchers, because of the small size of this subgroup these findings should be considered preliminary and need to be confirmed in further studies.
For participants in the mild pain subset, glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate together or alone did not provide statistically significant pain relief.

http://nccam.nih.gov/research/results/gait/qa.htm

[MiniMe]

20. My dog

Who doesn't understand that it is supposed to make him feel better, but acts more like a puppy and has more movement than he did before he started taking it. All he understands is that he gets a nummy treat as they make chewables for dogs. For a dog, keep to the name brands. Cosequin is the name brand and it is expensive. You can find it online, it is not prescription. If you want the website I order from, PM me. I don't want to be seen as advertising for a site.

[blueworld]

21. It worked for my dog that had Lyme's disease however

it was a moderate improvement for several years. (I passed on the combo stuff, but of course that's a personal choice).

When Chestnut was about 11, she stopped climbing up to sleep on the couch:) I took her to a vet who prescribed some great new painkiller that shut down her kidneys & she died 2 days later. I'm trying to find the name of that drug because I didn't research it until AFTER she died, and there were plenty of warnings all over the internet, if I had only looked earlier. Sorry I can't find it yet, but I'll post it again when I do.

Anyway the glucosamine & chondroitin works for my joints too; I've taken it for years.

[enlightenment]

22. I use it (a liquid form) and it does seem helpful.

Less stiffness in the morning and a distinct easing of pain in a couple of small joints. Hardly empirical evidence, however - maybe it's all in my head . . .

I've also given it to an elderly cat (a veterinary version) and it seemed to ease his stiffness as well - he had gotten to the point where he wouldn't jump down from any height; after about a month, I noticed he was jumping off the couch, bed, chairs, etc., instead of easing his way down or crying for me to lift him down.

Again, not scientific - just anecdotal experience.

Many years ago, I had a vet give another, very elderly, cat steroids for arthritis. He could hardly climb the stairs. It was very effective, for some reason, and he lived a relatively pain-free life (as far as I could tell) for another couple of years before dropping dead at 19, while chasing a bird in the yard.

Good luck with you dog.

[Warpy]

23. Double blind studies in people have shown benefits

in reports of reduced pain and increased joint function in osteoarthritis patients. It's one of those things I have no trouble recommending for a 3 month trial--not terribly expensive and at worst harmless.

I'm not sure the veterinary use has been explored to that extent. I do think it's probably worth a trial and much less damaging to your pet than the alternative, steroids.

[mopinko]

25. yeah, when we get to the prednisone,

i am gonna think long and hard. hate that shit myself.

[SPedigrees]

26. Unless for something really short term

I'm not thrilled with the use of prednisone either.

NSAIDs are pretty effective pain/inflammation relievers though, but it's a good idea to take a 4 day rest from them for every 10 days or two weeks on. It gives the body a chance to re-set and lessons the danger of stomach ulcers or bleeding.

[Tumbulu]

27. The horse world had this combo in use first in the mid 80's

and it is still widely used as it works for so many horses, although many vets recommend just the glucosamine and others the combo. By the 90's most small animal vets began to suggest using it. It was discovered as helpful by vets before people began to use it.

It seems to works well on most horses and dogs, but, you need to buy trusted brands and give a sufficient amount of it to work. I use it as a pain reliever- instead of aspirin- for pulled muscles effectively. My vet was laughing the other day about dog foods with some tiny amount of this stuff in it claiming it can help out- you need a good amount for the animal to feel relief. This is not cheap, but it works well for many animals, I recommend trying what your vet suggests.