I was injected with both influenza vaccines approximately 41 hours between injections.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

The only side effect, although you can't really call it a side effect, was a slightly sore arm from the seasonal influenza vaccination. That went away within 12-14 hours. I know many here were in hopes of my early demise from GBS or anaphylaxis but apparently it's not going to happen. FYI, I have never had a reaction to any medication or vaccine nor have I ever had the flu. The following is just my best guess, I been involved in the ems/fire business for 20 years, I suspect that repeated slight exposures to a wide range of infectious diseases has elevated my immune response somewhat. Of course, I could just practice good hygiene and be really lucky. Who knows? Might make an interesting study for some PhD candidate.


David

[monmouth]

1. I have never had the flu either and have never had the shot....n/t

[ellenfl]

6. almost ditto . . . i quit getting the shot when my mom quit taking me

to the pediatrician and i have never had the flu and rarely get colds. i would not get colds at all but at least two (out of 5) of my co-workers (including one boss) insist on coming to work when they are sick. also, i have discovered that they all lick their fingers to separate papers, including mine, taken from the printers. THAT grosses me out.

ellen fl

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. Nice to be healthy.

[Deep13]

2. We're still waiting for the H1N1 shots.

Got the seasonal jab three weeks ago. I'll get the bacon shot when it is available.

[snagglepuss]

17. "the bacon shot" LOLOL

:rofl:

[kestrel91316]

3. My vaccination protocol prohibits such timing, lol. I either give them at the same time

(which would mean within 2-3 hours max of each other), or wait a minimum of 21 days before giving the second vaccine. Has to do with interferon levels potentially suppressing the response to the second vaccine. This is what I learned in Virology and Immunology class as an undergrad, NOT in veterinary school, so the principles apply to humans AND animals.

In real life what you did probably isn't a problem because 41 hours probably is before sufficient interferon is produced. I just don't do that in my protocol because there is some question as to appropriateness.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

13. Are you saying I should get a booster in a month?

[JuniperLea]

4. How long ago was the last injection...

You may want to hold off on any claims for a while.

I've not had a cold or the flu in over 15 years, and I don't get flu shots, and I am around family members who work with the general public, and who are sick a lot from said contact. Even when my three kids were bringing home bugs from three different schools, I remained untouched... and I've always been a very touchy feely kissy huggy mom.

I've thought about volunteering for immune studies, but no one wants you if you are healthy.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. Going on 21 hours ago now.

[Greyskye]

5. My son and I both got seasonal flu vaccines on the same day.

All I had was the sore arm. He had the nasal mist, and 2 days later came down with a mild, 2 day flu. Pediatrician says that about 30% of kids have that kind of reaction.

We're all planning on getting the H1N1 vaccine when it becomes available later this month.

[hedgehog]

7. I think the terms "mild" and "flu" never go together.

It's like calling a rain storm a mild hurricane. Yeah, they both involve wind and rain, but going through a rain storm really doesn't give you a real understanding of going through a hurricane.

[hedgehog]

8. I got my seasonal flu shot and experienced a slight punky feeling for a day or so.

That beats the last time I had the flu, which left lingering effects for a year.

I'll be holding off getting H1N1 for a while, but only because I'm not in any of the high risk groups.

If there's any vaccine around a month after it's available around here, i'll get the shot.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

12. I've never had anything like that with any vaccine.

Yellow Fever and Typhoid made my arms excruciatingly sore.

[hedgehog]

15. It varies from person to person.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. Of course, that's why I included my history of no reactions.

My wife has had reactions to several medications. She is much more careful than I am about taking new meds and she should be.

[hedgehog]

18. I'm repeating myself, but the fact that some people can't tolerate

vaccines is all the more reason for those of us who can to get vaccinated. It's only simple decency to do what we can to protect others.

As another example, the flu vaccines don't work well for elderly people. That's one reason I insist my kids get their flu vaccine before they go to visit their grandparents.

[mzmolly]

10. I think threads that poke fun at the death and/or illness of others are really

uncalled for. SOME people do die or have serious complications as a result of vaccination. Yes, it's rare but it happens.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. I am not poking fun of death and/or illness. I'm giving people an update about my experience.

I thought it might be valuable since the H1N1 vaccine won't be available to the general public for a little while. I agree with you. There are serious complications and deaths associated with vaccines. They are very rare and may or may not be the result of the vaccination. Nothing in my OP was meant to belittle anyone's experience. It appears likely that there was a problem with the 1976 vaccine and I told City council that several weeks ago when I briefed them.

David

[hedgehog]

19. It is true that some people do die from vaccines. It's one reason

to keep working on developing better vaccines.

If I understood what I read properly, the original preparation of diphtheria vaccine required heating the solution to a certain temperature for a certain amount of time to weaken the bacteria. If the temperature was too high, the bacteria was destroyed and the vaccine was useless. If the temperature was too low, the bacteria remained active and the vaccine actually caused diphtheria. Temperature control is easy in small lab batches, but difficult in large production batches. The end result was that some people received useless vaccine, some people actually caught diphtheria but most people were protected. So the question is, do you vaccinate everyone knowing some of the people you vaccinate will get sick and die, or do you not vaccinate knowing that without vaccination, many more people will get sick and die? In other words, do we let nature take its course and kill a lot of us, or do we all buy into a lottery that only kills a few of us? Statistics suck when you're the statistic, but getting vaccinated is the rational choice.

I don't know if the production problems I described above still apply to the diphtheria vaccine or any other. The Vaccine Court was set up in recognition of the fact that vaccines produced under the best circumstances with the best science we have will hurt a very small number of people. The Court is meant to ensure that if someone is hurt by a vaccine, they are taken care of. The vaccine manufacturer is expected to meet certain standards, but is not held responsible for results that no one knows how to prevent.

Contrast that with the attitude of many that they and their families will not get vaccinated and will instead rely on the herd immunity provided by people who do get vaccinated.

[mzmolly]

20. To answer your question,

we give honest assessments of the risk v. benefits and we allow people to make a choice. We also must respect that choice vs shaming people who would rather not vaccinate for various reasons. Also, we should not stop common sense solutions like people keeping sick kids home from school, and so on. I think we need to look at vaccines as part of the solution. But, we have become so reliant on them that we're sloppy in other areas. For example, people cough and sneeze all over people and produce at stores, send sick kids to school, day care, church and so on. When I worked in childcare, people brought babies with Tylenol in their milk, dropped them off and said things like "oh she's got a high fever today so she may not be feeling very playful" I'm sorry, but WTF?!

Also your scenario about vaccines only looks at part of the potential problem. There has been very little intellectual curiosity about what might cause a particular person to have a particular reaction TODAY. For example, there is reason to believe that those who's families have various auto immune and neurological issues may have children who are more susceptible to vaccine side effects. Instead of honestly exploring that issue, we trot out the "benefits out-weight the risks" bologna. While this may be true on a societal level, we have to work to identify who this is true for INDIVIDUALLY.

Peace HH.

[hedgehog]

21. You make the premise that people are careless and cough all over each

other and that this was not done in the old days before vaccines. I doubt this is true. If people bring their sick children to day care, it's because they are expected to be at work and are not allowed to take sick days to stay home with a child. In any case, preventing the spread of airborne disease takes many small steps. It is not a case of wash hands OR cover your cough OR get vaccinated, it's a case of wash your hands AND cover your cough AND get vaccinated.

Some people and some families should not get vaccinated. The CDC vaccine information sheets are very clear on side effects that should be reported to a doctor in order to determine whether you should get future vaccinations. People who can't get vaccinated depend on others to protect them from disease. Too many people are deciding not to vaccinated because of something they read on the internet or heard at PTA. There is even an attitude in certain quarters that it's more natural to get sick than it is to get vaccinated. My brother went through chicken pox, measles, mumps and rubella before the age of 2. I suspect he would be much better off today if his immune system had been challenged by the vaccines and not the actual diseases

The problem is that when someone chooses not to vaccinate, they are also choosing to maintain a reservoir of disease. Since vaccines are not 100% effective, since some people can not be vaccinated, since it takes time to give an infant all the vaccines, one person's decision not to vaccinate increases the hazard for a lot of other people.

One of the most notorious examples of this is what happened in Boulder, Colorado:

http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles/AtlanticMonthlyVaccines.html

http://www.bouldercounty.org/health/hpe/iz/vaccines/pertussis/outbreak12-05.htm

Typically, it is wealthier parents with access to good health care who choose not to vaccinate. All to often, the cost of their decision is borne by poor families with undervaccinated children.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/114/1/187


Here's one woman's story of dealing with pertussis

http://cherirae.com/whooping-cough-pertussis-vaccines-herd-immunity

and a site, albeit sponsored by a Pharmaceutical company, where you can hear what whooping cough sounds like:

http://www.soundsofpertussis.com/?gclid=CIazvr3sv50CFYZM5QodOnHIjQ

[mzmolly]

22. It's an observation I've made. However it's certainly not one that I'd

spend much time debating. I'm simply saying I'd like to see more of an effort put into education about how germs are spread vs the assumption by many that vaccines are the end all. Also, we agree, vaccination is PART of the solution. However, apparently it's ok to "put others at risk" if you have to be at work, but all hell breaks loose if you choose to keep a sick, un-vaccinated child away from others? C'mon!

Also the story in Boulder is an example of BS spin used to sell vaccines. If you look for pertussis in a given community you will FIND pertussis. We have had clusters of whooping cough in several highly vaccinated communities as well.

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/metro/stories/2009/03/22/whooping_cough_vaccine.html

Further, we have higher than EVER vaccine compliance rates in the US. Especially with the pertussis jab.

http://in.reuters.com/article/healthNewsMolt/idINCOL47185220080904?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true

So tell me, how did we rid the US of various disease when we had 50-60 percent compliance rates in the 60's and 70's? Yet, today we're to panic as we approach 80-90 percent?

FYI ~ reporting is often biased b/c docs don't generally test for pertussis if one has been vaccinated. Instead you're often diagnosed with bronchitis. But boy, get a cough at a Waldorf school and we're better culture them thar' kids for pertussis on the double!

Most of us who've been vaccinated as children are no longer protected against pertussis and who knows what else. As you know, we vaccinate against pertussis to "protect babies" less than six months old, not to protect ourselves. Yet babies are exposed to all sorts of people, of all ages, whose vaccination status is unknown. I brought this up to the CDC about decade ago and asked them how we were protecting babies under the circumstances? They simply said "that's a gooood question." In fact at about that time, our Ped. told me that she and her colleagues were the largest carriers of the disease. And today, we finally have an adult booster shot.

Lastly, I know what whooping cough sounds like. In fact, my child caught what her doc felt was pertussis earlier this year, from a fully vaccinated friend, who was diagnosed with ... you guessed it ... bronchitis.

I will let you know that I don't intend to debate this same issue and it's nuances over and over again here. But I will stand up for the right of parents to choose. As you know, about 90 percent choose to vaccinate, and that number has grown over the decades.