The Jenny McCarthy Body Count website.

[Swede]

My nephew told me to check it out. I'm passing it on. Lots of good links.


snip
Is Jenny McCarthy directly responsible for every vaccine preventable illness and every vaccine preventable death listed here? No. However, as the unofficial spokesperson for the United States anti-vaccination movement she may be indirectly responsible for at least some of these illnesses and deaths and even one vaccine preventable illness or vaccine preventable death is too many.



http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Home.html

[no_hypocrisy]

1. There are two reasons to be vaccinated.

1. For your own constitution. Maybe you'll be OK after a virus but it won't be pleasant.

2. For your family, friends, coworkers, strangers in passing. If one of them catches your virus while your contageous and they haven't been vaccinated, you've inadvertently caused them harm by either sickness or death. This last part is tilting me toward the vaccination. I wouldn't want anyone to suffer due to my personal choice.

[katkat]

9. family, friends, coworkers, strangers in passing

Excuse me, it's My fault they get sick because they haven't been vaccinated? Let them play Russian Roulette with their own health with vaccines if they want to. I keep hearing this argument, and it never makes sense.

As to my own constitution, it is just recovering from neurological damage from a wonderful flu shot last November. Never again.

[uppityperson]

12. Really! It's their own damn fault they are allergic to eggs and can't take the vaccine!

I mean, REALLY! Let THEM play Russian Roulette with their own health! And those people who have reacted adversely to shots in the past? Why should I get vaccinated rather than them? Who cares if I get sick and pass influenza onto them? It's their own damn fault!



:sarcasm:

[beam me up scottie]

16. And whaddabout those goddamn infants, do their parents think they're special or something?

:banghead:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

28. Or cancer patients who can't take vaccines because of compromised immune systems from chemo!

And those dastardly transplant patients too.

[northzax]

38. let's not forget anyone with an disease that attacks the immune system

there are a lot of folks in this country with HIV.

[Maru Kitteh]

58. And those damned poor people with no insurance who can't afford the vaccine

Yeah, it's their own damn fault too.

[northzax]

shouldn't have been poor

your fault, stupid.

[katkat]

166. sure

Sure, I should be happy to be paralyzed by a flu shot, which is what my neurologist said was likely to happen if I had another, I'm just chopped liver.

Flu shots are available free for low income people in many areas, so don't give me the poor people stuff. And I didn't risk my life getting AIDS, so I'm not about to risk it to protect people who have AIDS.

[beam me up scottie]

169. "And I didn't risk my life getting AIDS,so I'm not about to risk it to protect people who have AIDS"

Wtf does that mean?

[LeftishBrit]

190. If you have been medically advised not to take a vaccine, then you shouldn't have it

And in fact are in the same position as others who can't get vaccinated and depend on herd immunity.

I don't think vaccines should be mandatory for most illnesses, but they should be universally available; and all the fearmongering that vaccines are all an evil government plot is dangerous.

For the rest, are you actually blaming AIDS patients for their illness? How liberal and compassionate of you.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

193. My friend's dad was a very healthy man UNTIL he took the first swine flue vaccine

There was no warning for him, he WAS HEALTHY

UNTIL HE GOT THE SWINE FLU SHOT.

Then he was a bedridden vegetable that my friend and her mother had
to take care of and change diapers for.

He was a farmer, a healthy strong man.

[beam me up scottie]

56. Fuck 'em! If they're stoopid enough to get cancer they don't deserve our compassion.

And we all know the black market organ industry gets its pick of sheep from the secret FEMA camps.

[no_hypocrisy]

29. I can't help but to return to the ethics of it all.

If someone is injured due to an action or inaction by me, is it right?

Study: 45 percent of adults hospitalized with H1N1 did not have underlying health issue
http://www.ajc.com/health/cdc-swine-flu-shots-161660.html?cxtype=rss_news_128746

[Ian David]

2. Have you seen the Jenny McCarthy Song video?

The Jenny McCarthy Song
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=317739

[JonQ]

3. I'm glad somebody did the work on this

this needs to be repeated often and loudly.

I'm sorry her kid is autistic, really I am. But that doesn't give her license to spout this nonsense, which unfortunately, some impressionable people will fall for.

[NoSheep]

4. Who owns the website I wonder?

[Swede]

5. Check the FAQ on the main page.

[Sebastian Doyle]

10. Hey, what do you know... the site's alleged owner is a REPUKE

I am also the creator of the Conservative Truths website (currently on hiatus until January 2012) which uses Census Bureau Statistical Reports to compare the differences between Conservative and Liberal Presidencies and Conservative and Liberal States.

"Conservative truths" ???

Yeah, just like FAUX Noise, I'm sure. Nothing but the "Conservative truth" from this pharma-funded slander site. :eyes:

[NeedleCast]

11. Pay a LITTLE attention

Conservative Truths is a pro-liberal web site. Doesnt' take more than a quick glance at their home page to realize this.

FFS...

[Sebastian Doyle]

14. Shilling for big pharma is "liberal"?

Bullshit.

[NeedleCast]

18. The owner of the site has nothing to do with big Pharma

He is a liberal, and owns a liberal web site with lots of good anti-conservative facts on it. IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE MAN! GO LOOK!

Or are you just one of the anti-vax crew?

[Sebastian Doyle]

46. "are you just one of the anti-vax crew?"

Not exactly. There have been some good vaccines in the past. But that was in the days when the FDA did their fucking jobs, and the pharmaceutical industry wasn't so goddamn powerful.

However, this mercury laced shit doesn't qualify. And I'm not going any where the "swine flu" vaccine either. Too much media hype of a "pandemic" based on little or nothing. And considering drug companies are making about 1 out of every three commercials on TV anymore, that tells you what team the media whores are on.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. A simple "yes" would work.

[LeftishBrit]

80. It's not just the USA where vaccines are used or recommended.

If it were, then your argument would be more plausible. But what about the UK or other Europaean countries, where there is universal health care and tight restriction of pharma advertising (in the UK, prescription drugs cannot be advertised in the general media, only in publications directed specifically at the medical profession - so there is far less advertising)? And the FDA does not operate outside the USA. Yet we have and recommend most of the same vaccines. Not mandatory in the UK by the way, but recommended by doctors, and provided free to everyone in the case of the main childhood vaccines and to vulnerable groups in the case of the flu vaccines. So vaccination programmes are not just a product of American politics or business or of a for-profit health care system.

[Confusious]

82. Never took chemistry did you?

Sodium is deadly
Chlorine is deadly

But you need both to stay alive in the form of SodiumChloride (salt).

Just because something contains mercury doesn't mean its deadly

Oh, and they don't even use that preservative anymore.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

159. Are you still arguing that the "media" declared the pandemic?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Sebastian, you think everybody's a big pharma shill.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. Wow.

You sure showed me, Sebastian.

[northzax]

57. this is correct

you sometimes accuse people of being shills for Big Oil as well. :)

[Sebastian Doyle]

59. Nobody asked you, Chad.

Let me guess.... you think every woman in Afghanistan should be given this mercury polluted shit vaccine?

[rd_kent]

62. Can you PROVE that claim?

Where can I see that evidence for myself?

[Confusious]

86. And you're a shill for the mortuary n/t

[uppityperson]

123. I was thinking along those lines myself. eom

[rd_kent]

27. How is debunking a fallacy "shilling for big pharma"?

[Sebastian Doyle]

30. How is it a "fallacy"?

Because pharma-funded "scientists" said so?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sebastian Doyle]

39. Yes, I'm stupid

Because I don't believe what unregulated pharma bastards tell me about shooting fucking mercury into my bloodstream being "completely safe"

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

48. Fun fact on preservative free vx back in 1928...

Thiomersal's main use is as an antiseptic and antifungal agent. In multidose injectable drug delivery systems, it prevents serious adverse effects such as the Staphylococcus infection that, in one 1928 incident, killed 12 of 21 children inoculated with a diphtheria vaccine that lacked a preservative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal

[TheWraith]

50. There's no mercury in modern vaccines.

Even in the old days, there were traces of ethyl mercury, which is not the same as the methyl mercury that we're familiar with. Even so, they used the same dosage guidlines as methyl mercury, to insure that the microscopic traces couldn't cause harm.

You get more mercury eating a diet rich in fish than if you got one of those old vaccines.

[rd_kent]

45. OK, smartguy, if you choose not believe the evidence

and the fact that there have been ZERO links between vaccines and autism, what evidence do YOU have that shows that there is?

Choosing not to believe the science, while ignorant, IS your choice, but WHY (other than the "Because pharma-funded "scientists" said so?") do you choose not to believe it? I see every reason TO believe they are safe. Can you point me to evidence that says they are not?

[TheWraith]

47. Because any credible scientist will tell you it's a fallacy.

No research by any source has found a link between vaccines and autism, and the health benefits of broad vaccination are one of the most basic tenets of epidemiology.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

49. This is what I don't understand. The majority of scientists are liberal. The majority also think

McCarthy is wrong. So are all of these liberals secretly working for Big Pharma?

[Marr]

55. My god, that's some impressive circular reasoning.

"He's a Republican! They're shills for big pharma!"

"The site has a liberal slant."

"Then why is he shilling for big pharma!?"

Nice little closed-circuit there. No chance of ever needing to change your mind with that kind of thinking.

[LeftishBrit]

74. Denying people access to vaccines or other medicines is not liberal...

whether this is done by Big Pharma by making them unaffordable, or by ideological opponents of vaccination in particular or government health programmes in general.

Those of us who are pro-vaccination are not 'shilling for big pharma'; we are defending the basic human right to preventive health care. Not all of us even support mandatory vaccination - I don't; I just want it to be made universally available.

[HuckleB]

170. Say what?

How is this site shilling for anything but an examination of the illogical fears against vaccination?

[Swede]

15. If you'd read the page you'd see it's a liberal site

His links are to sites like Dailykos and Crooks&Liars.

From the page-


The idea for this website (and its sister site Liberal-Truths) came out of my disappointment following the 2004 Presidential Election. I was disappointed that conservative politicians and pundits had successfully tarnished the word “liberal”. I wanted to do something that would help change that and a posting by Markos Moulitsas at DailyKos gave me the inspiration. That posting was about how conservatives have higher rates of divorce than liberals. I am a member of the DailyKos and MyDD communities and in late 2004 I asked other community members for technical and subject advice and I received lots of help and suggestions.

[rd_kent]

23. Regardless of who "owns" it, it IS correct.

There are ZERO corollaries between vaccines and autism.....ZERO. The ant-vaccine BS is BUNK.

[mzmolly]

168. Another RW advocate for big business?

Imagine that!

[HuckleB]

171. It's not right wing, by any means.

[mzmolly]

177. Ahhh, I guess useful idiots

come in all stripes? ;)

Peace HuckleB. :hi:

[HuckleB]

178. Your statement is generally correct, of course!

Cheers!

:toast:

[mzmolly]

181. LOL

Cheers my friend. :pals:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

191. "Conservative Truths" = Oxymoron

[Sebastian Doyle]

7. Some fucking coward hiding behind "anonymous" domain registration, apparently

Registrant:
Contactprivacy.com
96 Mowat Ave
Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
CA

Domain name: JENNYMCCARTHYBODYCOUNT.COM


Administrative Contact:
contactprivacy.com, [e-mail]
96 Mowat Ave
Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
CA
+1.4165385457
Technical Contact:
contactprivacy.com, [e-mail]
96 Mowat Ave
Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
CA
+1.4165385457


Registration Service Provider:
PowWeb, [e-mail]
866-476-9932



Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 02-Feb-2009.
Record expires on 02-Feb-2010.
Record created on 02-Feb-2009.

Registrar Domain Name Help Center:
http://domainhelp.tucows.com

Domain servers in listed order:
NS2.POWWEB.COM
NS1.POWWEB.COM


Domain status: clientTransferProhibited
clientUpdateProhibited

My guess would be, whichever pharmaceutical company gave her kid autism with injectable mercury.

[NeedleCast]

8. Actually, it's right there on the web site under the FAQs

Including name, and occupation (and the fact that he's a liberal).

You'd know that, if you'd bothered to do some research...but why bother, right?

[Statistical]

120. Research gives you autism. All the anti-science freepers know that.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

192. yep, he puts McCarthy's name out there but he hides in his mothers basement

anonymously

[NeedleCast]

6. Why can't people just be happy with their kids

That really seems like that basis for all the indigo/crystal bullshit. Its like soccer moms run amok and turned up to 11. When it's not enough to excel at school or sports or art or whatever, they have to make up some new shit. Its just another way for bored parents to live vicariously through their offspring. Its the new version of "oh yeah, we'll my son is at Harvard, he's going to be a lawyer."

[Hello_Kitty]

17. Yep. Gawd forbid they should have average kids.

It's unthinkable.

[KamaAina]

64. Clearly you're not from Lake Wobegon.

Where all the children are above average...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

160. Of course genetics doesn't have anything to do with it when they are below average.

:sarcasm:

[beam me up scottie]

20. I wonder how it will affect the kids, too.

What happens when you finally realize Mommy was wrong, you DON'T have supernatural powers?

[Better Today]

65. WTF?? I had the pleasure this past spring to drive disabled young adults

to their centers where they are quite literally tended all day at activities you and I might consider quite normal.

Autism, real autism and I agree it is over diagnosed, is not a trivial thing. And when a child of 2-3 who is developing normally suddenly changes shortly after a round of vaccinations, it is pretty hard to blame the parent for wanting that normal baby back. You know measurable stuff, like they were developing language at or above standards and interacting with others, at 2-3yo we're talking about well past the gaga-googoo stage here, then they go entirely mute and unresponsive to virtually any stimulus or the only response becomes a shriek or a panic attack???

I can't agree more that it is over diagnosed, like depression and so many others that Pharma makes big money with, but for some it is quite real, and the timing points right to vaccinations.

[beam me up scottie]

77. Jesus Christ, did you even read his post? He was talking about INDIGO/CRYSTAL children.

You wasted a perfectly good hysterical rant. :freak:

[rd_kent]

156. Can you provide a lik to that story?

I would like to see for myself what the details are on this normally developing child that suddenly went autistic after a vaccine.

[Bonobo]

13. Swede, you don't get to tell people what to do with their bodies, ok?

Doesn't matter if you yell or ridicule, mock or cajole. It is not YOUR right to tell people what to do with their bodies.

Is that a hard concept for you?

[TheWraith]

51. Tell it to the people spreading lies via mass media.

Which includes Ms. McCarthy. If celebrities were getting up on TV and saying that smoking was good for you and that every American should start smoking at 8 years old, would people who tried to correct the facts be "telling people what to do with their bodies?"

[muriel_volestrangler]

68. He's telling people to ignore the idiotic Jenny McCarthy

who gives out crappy, life-endangering advice.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. Listen, I'm happy that woo woos don't get life saving medicine.

The problem is people like McCarthy who are lying about vaccines and tricking stupid parents into not getting vaccines for their children who are to young to consent to quackery.

[NeedleCast]

31. You will not get one what?

OP does not suggest getting any particular vaccine.

[uppityperson]

33. "fuck all you lock-steppers"? As opposed to those who lockstep "vxs are bad"? Huh

[closeupready]

22. I know someone who, after getting the flu shot, was out sick for a week.

He said he's never been sicker in his life, and would never do it again.

[NeedleCast]

24. What was he sick with?

One in a very small number of people have a bad reaction to the flu shot. I've never been prone to getting the flu, so I don't usually get the shot. That doesn't mean I'm okay with Jenny's anti-vaccination propaganda.

[closeupready]

37. The Flu! It was a reaction to the shot.

n/t

[NeedleCast]

43. Then he is one of a few people who react negativly to the vaccine

He probably shouldn't get it again. For the vast majority of people, it's quite safe.

[uppityperson]

44. He got influenza from a attenuated virus? Wow. That is something.

Since the vaccine contains only dead or changed viruses that can't make you sick yet get to develop antibodies to the real infectious virus, that is something. Rather like getting tetanus after getting a hepatitis vaccine.

[beam me up scottie]

81. Yeah, I hear that one all the time. You can't tell science-illiterates anything.

Easy to identify, their eyes glaze over as soon as you use scientificky terms like "attenuated" or "antibodies".

[uppityperson]

83. I'm always trying to simplify, de-jargonize the lingo.

Then I get called on simplifying. Ah well. Educate, advocate, repeat.

[beam me up scottie]

108. Maybe you need fake boobies like Jenny.

Nah, they'd just stare at those and tune you out anyway.

Crayons and lollipops maybe?

[closeupready]

125. self-delete

delete

[uppityperson]

132. self delete also. we all have bad days, even we uppity people

[closeupready]

139. delete

self-delete - I apologize, I think I'm overreacting, sorry.

[uppityperson]

143. hey. OK.

:hippie: :pals:

Being sick sucks.

[closeupready]

145. Yeah. And I think I'm a little sick in the head today, lol.

:rofl:

[beam me up scottie]

134. You were the one who claimed he got the flu from the flu shot.

Geez, overreact much?

[closeupready]

141. He was NEVER out, he got the flu shot, he was out all the next week, sick.

YOu ask me what he got - I don't know, but out for a week is usually the flu.

[beam me up scottie]

147. A week is bad enough, last time I had the flu I was out of work for almost a month.

It just started as the flu, then I had bronchitis and finally pneumonia. I'm not getting the vaccine (yet) but I'm glad that it's available.

:)

[closeupready]

151. Personally, I don't really get the flu - I did get the shot last year, and

if my doctor thinks I should get it this year, I will - otherwise, I think I will pass. I'm not really in any risk groups, so I think I'll probably be fine.

[beam me up scottie]

155. That was years ago when I still smoked, I'm healthy now and I'm going to wait as well.

It's great that it's available at department and drug stores, I avoid the doctor's office like the plague during flu season - if you're not sick going in, you will be by the time you leave.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

162. Are you a healthy adult between the ages of 25-52? If so you are at risk.

[beam me up scottie]

148. A self-delete is the mark of a really class act.

I'll try to remember to follow your good example. :)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

161. Some people inevitably have already contracted the flu when they get the shot.

12 hours later when they exhibit symptoms, they blame the flu shot. Instead of blaming not washing their hands after they picked their kid up from school 2 days before.

[HuckleB]

173. Ding! DING! DING! EXACTLY!

[HuckleB]

172. Again, correlation does not prove causation.

[Johonny]

26. I once crossed the street and got sick the next day

never cross streets

[closeupready]

35. I woke up and George Bush was president. Never wake up!

Bad idea.

[uppityperson]

36. I know someone whose hairdresser's cousin's wife's babysitter....

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. Get the flu vaccine they said.

[beam me up scottie]

63. LOL!

That's gonna be hard to cover up with make-up.

You may need to consult your local Avon Lady:

http://thumbnails.hulu.com/9/990/33154_512x288_generated__6+c9ZgEx206AGzBdbOckKQ.jpg

[rucky]

104. That's just anecdotal evidence. Not a double-blind clinical study.

Like the kind they should've had BEFORE THEY PUT THE DAMN FLU SHOT ON THE MARKET.

:)

[closeupready]

144. That's true. I don't actually have a double blind study, as such,

This is just my own personal experience. It likely means nothing to anyone else, but personal experience is often what you remember about such things.

Cheers. :)

[Confusious]

146. Either that or he already had the flu and didn't know it,

In which cause the flu shot would do nothing for him.

[closeupready]

152. Oh! That's entirely possible - for whatever reason, I never considered that.

This was a looonng time ago, back in 1999, and as I recall, that was a particularly bad year for flu.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

163. People who contract the flu are contagious with it 24 hours before they have symptoms.

[beam me up scottie]

153. That's a good point, you could already be infected by the time you get the vaccine.

I dread going anywhere public right now - especially the doctor's office since I don't want to GET sick. I'm not germ-phobic but we carry hand sanitizer and wash our hands as much as possible.

[earth mom]

53. Jenny McCarthy is NOT anti vaccine. She feels that vaccines should be given on an INDIVIDUAL basis.

Or in other words:

One size does NOT fit all.



Ever hear of people having allergic or adverse reactions to medicine or food?

This is the same thing!

Jenny is advocating for the vaccine schedule to go back to what it was in 1989-BEFORE the Autism epidemic.



To say Jenny is responsible for anyone's death is total bullshit and lies!

And not only that, why should infants be used as guinea pigs by the FOR PROFIT pharma giants?!!!



Why are people so fucking ignorant that they refuse to hear what Jenny is pointing out?!

My gawd, it's just common sense!!!

:argh:

[Pavulon]

73. Like the Sudan. It is working great there

she is an ignorant ass who should restrict her media profile driven mouth to something like the jonas brothers as that is her background. She is in direct conflict with the CDC, and its counterparts in the developed world.

The ignorant who do not vaccinate their kids are leeching off those who do.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

102. Did that poster say he or she was not immunizing his or her kids?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

109. You're refering to the children who were tested for H1N1 safety.

With the permission and encouragement of those children's parents.

Of course, in other threads you claim that H1N1 isn't tested at all.

Haven't seen you explain yourself out of this contradiction yet.

[northzax]

75. but that defeats the concept of vaccines

look, vaccines are not 100% safe. some people who take vaccines will get sick. especially live vaccines (since, after all, they get you sick intentionally) so then you play the percentages. but those percentages only work if everyone takes the vaccine. it's only worth the 1:1,000,000 risk if you use vaccines to eliminate or seriously and drastically reduce the occurrence of that disease (see: Polio, Smallpox, Rubella, German Measles) if vaccines are rejected by the general population, then they lose their efficacy, since the disease will still be out there, infecting people.

common sense? this is science, common sense has nothing to do with it. Why don't people listen to an actress on public health and immunology? well, I have listened. and then I called my college roommate, the MD/PhD Rhodes Scholar tenured immunology professor. and he said she's full of shit. so I asked the two other Md/PhDs I know well (conveniently, one is also a Rhodes Scholar, the other is British. Both are biochemists who do research for a living. both immunized their children as recommended. if I need an opinion on music, I call my friends who are musicians. if I need advice on art, I call artists and art historians. if I need an architect, I call one. if I need a lawyer, I call one. but if I need an immunologist, I'm supposed to call an actress?

[earth mom]

111. Other Doctors AGREE with Jenny. She wrote an Autism book with Dr. Jerry Kartzinel.

FYI-the vaccine schedule has almost tripled since 1990 for NO reason.

There are NO studies and NO explanation as to why.

But Jenny, Dr. Kartzinel and I will tell you why: MONEY and PURE GREED.

And I will bet you will find "friends" who will give their opinions-NOT FACTS-as to why they think that no one should be concerned about this very important piece of information. :eyes:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

118. Jerry Kartzinel doesn't believe that kids should follow the polio vaccination schedule

POLIO for crying out loud!

And how does Jenny McCarthy defend this?

"I do believe sadly it’s going to take some diseases coming back to realize that we need to change and develop vaccines that are safe. If the vaccine companies are not listening to us, it’s their f___ing fault that the diseases are coming back. They’re making a product that’s s___. If you give us a safe vaccine, we’ll use it. It shouldn’t be polio versus autism."

[beam me up scottie]

112. Slowly back away from the poster, don't make any sudden moves.

Then run like hell and don't look back. :freak:

[beam me up scottie]

54. Anti-Vaccine/Big-Pharma Conspiracies = left's version of Death Panels/Birther Conspiracies

:crazy:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

60. Honest to god...who do we believe? Stacks of scientific evidence or the ex host of "Singled Out"?

We use the scientific method because one man's "common sense" is another man's "batshit crazy". There's someone out there right now who swears its common sense that Obama must be born in Kenya.

[beam me up scottie]

70. That type of paranoia used to be considered a mental disorder.

Sometimes I feel like I'm dealing with 4-year-olds instead of adults.

[LeftishBrit]

71. Actually, it is not specifically a 'left' version

Many people on the right are anti-vaccine. Although the right-wing anti-vaccinators tend to emphasize suspicion of government involvement in health care, while the left-wing anti-vaccinators are more likely to emphasize suspicion of Big Pharma, it's not even as simple as that. People on the left are sometimes prepared to accept right-wing anti-all-government arguments ('those who line up for their vaccines are sheeple blindly obeying a government that is out to kill them/ impose 'marshal' law on them/ bring people nearer to a New World Order') and I have actually seen people on DU link to far-right-wing sources and even argue that these can be more valid than the mainstream media. This view horrifies me. The poison of right-wing ideology is more dangerous, and kills more people, than most diseases or any vaccines.

I realize that some people involved are against only some and not all vaccines, and dislike being called anti-vaccinators. And I am fully aware that there are genuine reasons for some people and groups to worry about side effects - I am personally cautious before getting *any* medical treatment including vaccines, and don't get absolutely everything that's offered. In most cases, I am against mandatory vaccinations, and instead in favour of universal free availability.

At the same time, I am aware that vaccination as a whole has drastically reduced disease in the world, and that lack of access to vaccines still kills about one and a half million children a year from preventable disease, mostly in developing countries.

None of this alters the fact that there are some dangerous CTs involved, and that these are dangerous not only from the point of view of individual and public health - though that's bad enough - but in terms of spreading the particularly dangerous disease of right-wing-itis.

[beam me up scottie]

92. Several local daycare centers will not accept un-vaccinated children.

The thought of dozens of sick kids climbing all over mine would be enough for me to vaccinate.

[blondeatlast]

133. Ain't that the goddamned truth. My choices here suck.

Insulin dependent here, son with asthma. If we get the flu, we are definitely in the hospital and come out if we are lucky. I can't get the vaccine and neither can my son--and yet he has to go to school with the progeny of feeble-minded dolts who think McCarthy knows what she is talking about.

[beam me up scottie]

137. That is terrifying. And why the chronically paranoid should get immunized.

I never would have predicted this bullshit, even after the bush administration did everything it could to destroy scientific research.

[harun]

158. +1

[Better Today]

61. Of course she is, but then you and everyone like you who demands mandatory vaxs

should be held responsible for every man, woman, or child who has an adverse reaction to the vax, provable or not, since many of those seeming to dying from the illnesses themselves, I'm guessing you're focusing on the current flu and H1N1 vaxs, are actually dying because the illness was a last straw on an otherwise compromised individual, so it would be really hard to pin every vax'able disease on the lack of vax anyway.

You know many people die from these illnesses, but many people used to live through them too. If an illness is a killer all by itself, then wouldn't they have all died?

It should be an individual's choice or the choice of the parent for children. Choice, I thought that was important to us.

[uppityperson]

66. Who all "demands mandatory vaxs"? i missed that.

[Better Today]

76. Well, trying to degrade or debase or blame people, all of which can be

found in these vax discussions including this one, regarding those that choose not to be vax'd, have opinions about the safety of vax's. . . Yeah, it sure has the effect of making it seem like you'd (all the intensely pro vax people) prefer every vax was mandatory. You are all using similar tactics to people who want all women to be forced to see every pregnancy through. . . .

It seems so odd, if a group thinks a woman who gets pregnant should have to see the pregnancy through to her best ability, . . . then we (Dems in general), scream about the right to make our own health choices and call those demanding that we only have one option, right wing nutjobs.

On this issue, those of us who are leary or un-concerned or flat out against the flu and/or h1n1 vax, and indicate that we will exercise that choice for ourselves, are now being called right wing conspiracy nuts.

How do you folks resolve that level of hypocrisy?

[uppityperson]

79. So no one is calling for mandatory vx, just your rhetoric. Gotcha.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

114. OTHER PEOPLE post "all sorts of rude and outrageous crap"?

And yet YOUR posts always get deleted.

I guess admin's in on it, too, eh?

[earth mom]

116. How would you know that my posts are deleted? I'm sure you do your best to silence me.

What fucking ever. :eyes:

[beam me up scottie]

119. Man, you never disappoint, do you?

:applause:

[uppityperson]

129. memory. eom

[Scarsdale Vibe]

117. The autism "epidemic" doesn't exist.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. Alright.

We'll be responsible for everybody who dies from the vaccine, you'll be responsible for everybody who dies that doesn't get the vaccine.

Let's see... that's 4,703 H1N1 deaths for you... and 0 for me.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

69. How do you believe diseases are eradicated?

For example, how do you believe smallpox was eradicated?

[beam me up scottie]

72. "If an illness is a killer all by itself, then wouldn't they have all died?"

:wow:

Well, hell, let's all go back to the 17th century when we didn't have to worry about those dangerous vaccines.

[Better Today]

85. Ew, one sentence out of context, aren't you clever. The idea is valid, and it is actually

one of the reasons being given on this and every other similar thread.

For those of us who are not concerned or are willing to get the flu rather than the vaccine, we are told and accurately so, that others whose systems are compromised will be the ones who die if they are exposed to use while we are contagious.

This is not a new idea starting with the flu(s). In virtually all epidemics, there were underlying causes that caused death in some, and allowed recovery in others; some environmental factors in some eras, as well as the overall health of an individual or a community.

I'm confused as to why you don't know this, I hope this helps you come to grasp with reality.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

88. Smallpox had a 30% mortality rate. Are you saying that it was environmental causes and not

the variola virus that caused this?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

[Better Today]

93. I'm saying the mortality rate is effected by personal, community, and environmental factors.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

95. What does that have to do with immunization?

[Statistical]

124. Herd immunity.

Say your neighbor is going to die if he is exposed to H1N1. 100% absolutely going to die. You don't know that, he doesn't know that but it is going to happen.
Now someone at your workplace has H1N1.

First outcomes:
You decided to be a fucking ass and don't get vaccinated. You get H1N1 (doesn't kill you) and you spread it to him and he dies.

Second outcome:
You get vaccine, as a result your body kills/weakens H1N1 enough that is doesn't pass to your neighbor. He lives.

Now multiply that times a couple million: Herd immunity.

If enough people aren't selfish assholes and anti-science nutjobs the entire "herd" survives at a higher rate.
Now you may say "screw my neighbor he should get the vax". Maybe he does and still dies. Without enough system wide immunity to reduce the amount of exposure he has he could still die WITH the vaccine.

If you want to learn something:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

I doubt you will but maybe someone else gets vaccinated because they are willing to learn something today.

[blondeatlast]

136. And I'm the neighbor who can't take the vaccine (insulin-dependent diabetes).

If this thing gets any worse than it is, I may just homeschool my kid--anhd I really don't want to do that.

[uppityperson]

122. Mortality rate is Affected by many factors, including immunizations.

Overall health of individuals and communities of course impact health also.

[beam me up scottie]

91. If you really want a clue, Google "Herd Immunity" and "Germ Theory".

But after reading the unbelievable hyperbole you pack in your posts, I sincerely doubt you'll actually do any research.

[Better Today]

97. I'm discussing the mortality rate, not the illness or the cause of the illness, just

the factors involved in the mortality rate of illnesses.

[beam me up scottie]

101. You were discussing immunization until you realized you didn't know anything about it.

You should do your homework instead of insulting every pro-science person on this thread.

[Statistical]

130. Herd immunity DOES affect mortality rate.

By YOU getting vaccinated (as part of the herd) you reduce the transmissions of the disease and thus someone who WOULD HAVE DIED doesn't because they never get exposed enough to get sick.

High enough herd immunity breaks the transmission vectors and the disease dies out. However if you are completely selfish asshole and only care about yourself well then ideas like common good & public health seem quaint.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

164. I hate to tell you but the number of people an illness spreads to affects mortality rate.

[Pavulon]

78. Choice, take /give it or move to the fucking sudan and enjoy your polio

and the DSS will not take your kids here in the US or any modern nation. These morons are no different than the assholes who stand around and pray to jeebus while their kid dies of diabetic shock rather than take them to a doctor. This is old and simple science.

Children are shielded from stupid parents, religious nuts or vaxer nuts, same cloth. Emergency custody order solves the problem.

[Better Today]

87. I support choice, period. Health care of all forms is a personal issue and though I think

it should be available to everyone, it should not be forced on anyone otherwise not found to be incompetent in a court of law; and yes this includes parents' rights over children's health decisions. If a person is not incompetent, then they should have choice.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

89. How far are you willing to take personal choice? If a parent decides they don't want to give their

kid antiretrovirals because they don't believe that HIV causes AIDS, should they be allowed to do this?

[Better Today]

98. IF they have not and cannot be found incompetent, then yes.

I just can't straddle a fence that says "I want to make my own health care choices" re: planned parenthood/abortion

and then tell anyone else that it is only acceptable for me and my ilk because we are somehow better or smarter than others.

Particularly when that is what they are claiming as their right to tell me how to choose.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

100. A child is a person. Legally. A fetus is not a person. Legally. That is one difference you are

missing in your attempt to link the refusal of-in this case lifesaving antiretrovirals- and abortion.

[uppityperson]

127. I can since a fetus does not have the same legal rights as a child and a sperm has less

Did you know Planned Parenthood is much more than "abortion"?

[HuckleB]

174. So you're OK with faith healers?

[Pavulon]

90. Nope, not how it works. You can kill yourself for Jesus

but not your kids. You want to pray you ass off that you treatable but fatal disease miracles away, go for it. You can't inflict that on a child. Same logic for the religion of the anti vaxer crowd. They are no different than JW or some snake handling fool who thinks modern medicine is bunk.

A child is not a dog, you cant have it euthanized.

[Better Today]

103. Darlin' there is no bigger atheist than myself. Not a religious here at all.

Just a personal one. I also don't know my cholesterol rating, nor have I had any medical attention since 1991. I swore off doctors, hospitals, and their ilk. Just a personal choice. My children rarely doctors, though they had been through all their vax's and such before I lost my confidence in the system. Once they hit 16 or so, it became their choice. Now they seem to make choices based on each situation they encounter, which I believe is probably the best attitude. They take the time to evaluate the illness or injury, the likelihood it will clear up on its own, they get data from on-line regarding what to watch for, what meds might be prescribed if they go to a doc, the likely side effects, the unlikely side effects. . . .


I taught my children it was their body, and they should get informed in general and then specifically when appropriate and make their own choices.

If you think that's bad, then we really are on entirely different planes.

[Pavulon]

115. Children cant do informed consent (end story nt)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

94. Let me add to this: When I was 6, my grandma burned my arm with a cigarette lighter.

I had ringworm and her mother, my great grandmother, had told her that ringworm was an actual worm that needed to be burned out. She honestly thought she was helping me.

Science tells us that ringworm is a fungus that can be easily cleared up with an antifungal cream. If people (like my grandma at the time) believe that ringworm needs to be burned out, should they be allowed to burn their grandchildren?

[LeftishBrit]

96. There are limits to parents' absolute rights over their children..

just as there are limits to their right to beat, starve, etc. their children.

There are degrees. Refusing to vaccinate your children or engage in similar preventive measures is in most cases like feeding them an unhealthy diet: regrettable, but still not a matter requiring enforcement. But refusing to allow an already seriously ill child to have lifesaving medical treatment is more like actually starving your child, and does justify intervention. A Jehovah's Witness has a right to choose to die rather than have a blood transfusion but they do not IMO have the right to make that same decision for a child. Just like they can choose to starve themselves, but not their child.

[Better Today]

106. We disagree. If the parents have not been legally divested of their guardianship,

then it is the parents' right. However, note I am saying that there is room in my POV for the courts to intervene, which I believe should be on a case by case basis.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

107. In the example I listed above, do you belive the courts have the right to force the kid to get

treatment?


We know HIV causes AIDS. We know this. So if a parent decides that HIV does not cause AIDS and therefore refuses treatment for their child, do you think the courts have a right to intervene?

[LeftishBrit]

84. So if not EVERYONE dies, it's somehow OK?

Not EVERYONE dies from playing Russian roulette, but that doesn't make Russian roulette a wise health practice.

I agree with it being the individual's choice, but if vaccines are not made freely available by the state, then poorer people are essentially being mandated NOT to have them.

I certainly do not want a world where the vulnerable are not protected from the diseases that could be the 'last straw' for them, and where survival depends on a combination of physical toughness and sheer good luck.

[Better Today]

105. No, my point is that it isn't the illness ALONE that kills and there are other factors that effect

the mortality rate.

[uppityperson]

131. Other factors can AFFECT health, but it is the illness that kills.

Affect, not effect. You can effect change, or not, but what you do affects the outcome.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

165. Whatever point you are trying to make about cause of death and mortality rate, you aren't making it.

[Statistical]

121. You got to be kidding me right?

So should people have the choice to microwave their children? Choice right?

[Confusious]

149. Your talking about a selfish choice on your part

The evidence points to vaccines being 99% safe.

"Choice, I thought that was important to us."

Responsible choices. Choices that you make that do not effect other people. When it comes time to make a social choice, you choose on the side of the majority of people.

Not vaccinating is irresponsible. To my child, to me, to my family, my city, my state, my country, the entire human race.

And there is a choice. You can NOT vaccinate, and you don't get to take part in society, your kid can't have an education, and probably gets to die early, in a nasty painful way.

Thats whats offered, take it or leave it.

[rd_kent]

157. You know nothing about what you are talking about

People are DYING from contracting DISEASES that could have been PREVENTED had they gotten the VACCINE. They chose NOT to get the vaccine based on NOTHING TANGIBLE that links autism and vaccines. They ALSO put the REST OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC at RISK by SPREADING the disease they COULD HAVE PREVENTED contracting by getting the VACCINE.

See the point? Not getting something PROVEN to save your life because you choose NOT TO BELIEVE THE SCIENCE THAT PROVES it is well, like, *ahem* believing in an all powerful deity that lives in the sky and loves you.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

110. I remember the first time I ever saw Jenny McCarthy

It made me very, very happy.

Now it just makes me sad. Go away.

[leftstreet]

126. Who is 'Jenny McCarthy?'

:shrug:

[Pavulon]

128. no one important (ny)

[blondeatlast]

140. Orly taitz with big breasts and a Playboy spread. nt

[Junkdrawer]

135. Having trouble pushing your swine flu vaccine? Trash Jenny McCarthy....

That'll do it.

[uppityperson]

138. bwahahahahahahahaha!

[beam me up scottie]

142. I love it!

:rofl:

[Orrex]

150. Having trouble making a cogent argument against vaccination?

Rally behind a former PMOY who's been anointed by Oprah herself.

When you can't find a scientist who agrees with you, a celebrity is even better.

When you can't find an expert who supports your argument, a victim is all the expert you need.


What kills me about the anti-vax nonsense is that the speed with which its acolytes fall into line behind an unqualified spokes-head corresponds directly to that spokes-head's distance from scientific credibility.

[xchrom]

154. wow -- what an interesting read this thread has been -- mega props

to my pro-science peeps.

i don't know how you do it sometimes -- but i'm sure as hell glad you do.

[mzmolly]

167. Do you have a Merck body-count website? Jenny McCarthy VACCINATED her son.

That point apparently fails some? She also advocates for an alternate VACCINE schedule which has been put forth by an M.D.

It's a shame you all don't have a better villain.

[uppityperson]

175. And she advocates AGAINST vxs since vxs "gave her son teh autism", which isn't autism

Oh yes, and that kid was an Crystal child, with her being an Indigo Mom (or else I have that backwards, cannot remember). Until she decided her child had autism, from a thimerosal in a vaccine. Except the vaccine she said it was from didn't have thimerosal in it then. And except her child may not be autistic, and her fanning flames of fear have caused many to not vaccinate their children.

So, (from OP link) "In June 2007 Jenny McCarthy began promoting anti-vaccination rhetoric. Because of her celebrity status she has appeared on several television shows and has published multiple books advising parents not to vaccinate their children. This has led to an increase in the number of vaccine preventable illnesses as well as an increase in the number of vaccine preventable deaths."

From wiki:
In May 2007, McCarthy announced that her son was diagnosed with autism in 2005. The disorder of McCarthy's son began with seizures and his improvement occurred after the seizures were treated; these symptoms are more consistent with Landau–Kleffner syndrome, which often is misdiagnosed as autism.

http://neurotodayonline.com/pt/re/neurotoday/fulltext.00132985-200808070-00005.htm;jsessionid=KXLL1cPf0YB289L0cb3TW1WCdCSG00rXnzvcTcQG419K3zqgxSPW!-2135654213!181195629!8091!-1

In After Vaccine-Autism Case Settlement, MDs Urged to Continue Recommending Vaccines (June 5), Dawn Fallik correctly cites Jenny McCarthy as a celebrity fanning the flames of the vaccine-autism link. McCarthy also makes parents think that autism can be cured with unproven treatments - as she claims is the case with her son - documented in her much publicized book, Louder than Words: A Mother's Journey in Healing Autism (Dutton 2007).

Unfortunately, what the public does not realize as well as perhaps McCarthy is that her son was most likely misdiagnosed with autism in the first place. His disorder began with seizures and, subsequently, with the seizures treated, he improved. This would be more consistent with Landau-Kleffner syndrome, which often is misdiagnosed as autism.

Daniel B. Rubin, MD, PhD

[mzmolly]

176. No "seh" doesn't.

http://www.generationrescue.org/vaccines.html

Here are some suggestions at the generationrescue website.

As a parent contemplating vaccinating their child, we would offer the following 3-point plan to try to minimize the potential risks from vaccines. (Please note that we are parents, not doctors. What follows is not medical advice, it is the opinion of parents. Anything written here should be reviewed with a qualified physician. We are not giving you medical advice nor are we qualified to do so.)
1. Take Precaution
• Consider delaying vaccines until your child is 18-24 months old.
• Do not vaccinate if your child is taking antibiotics.
• Consider no more than one vaccine per doctor’s visit.
• If you plan to get the MMR vaccine, ask your doctor to give it in three separate vaccines for measles, mumps and rubella.
• Consider giving high doses of Vitamin C (3,000-5,000 mg per day) on the day before, of, and after vaccination.
• With the measles vaccine (MMR), consider high doses of Vitamin A (5,000 IU or more) on the day before, of, and after vaccination.
• If your child experiences any developmental delays, stop vaccinating until you learn more.
• If your child has an adverse reaction to a vaccine, stop vaccinating until you learn more.
• Always ask to see the vaccine insert, and never accept a vaccine that uses the preservative Thimerosal (mercury). For a complete list of vaccines with Thimerosal, see the FDA’s website here. Note: most flu shots today still contain Thimerosal.
2. Consider delaying vaccines
In our favorite article on vaccines, A User-Friendly Vaccine Schedule, written by University of Washington surgeon Donald Miller, M.D., Dr. Miller makes a number of interesting observations including:
"Public health officials, however, have not proven that it is indeed safe to inject this many vaccines into infants. What's more, they cannot explain why, concurrent with an increasing number of vaccinations, there has been an explosion of neurologic and immune system disorders in our nation’s children."
And:
"New knowledge in neuroimmunology (the study of how the brain’s immune system works) raises serious questions about the wisdom of injecting vaccines in children less than two years of age."
Dr. Miller’s recommendation: don’t start vaccinating your child until they turn two years old.
3. Consider an alternative schedule to the CDC’s current schedule
It really is shocking to look at the 1983 recommended vaccine schedule and compare it to 2008. Does a child really need so many more vaccines today? Quiz your doctor by asking them how many vaccines were on the schedule in the 1980s. We have found that most have no idea. Three potential alternative schedules to consider:
I. Listen to the Doctor (Our favorite)
Comment: Donald Miller, M.D., is a surgeon at the University of Washington. His article, A User-Friendly Vaccine Schedule, is summarized into this schedule.
II. Turn back the clock
Comment: This is the schedule from 1983. If it worked for kids then, why doesn't it work for kids now?
III. Go Danish
Comment: Denmark is a first world country based in Western Europe. Their schedule appears far more reasonable than ours. They have also been reported to have a much lower rate of autism than the U.S. Do they know something we don't?

I wish people would actually take time to think about the fact that anyone who says any thing against any vaccine will be smeared no matter what the hell they actually have to say. McCarthy is being smeared like those before her who have witnessed a change in their children post vaccination and dared to tell. Damn anyone who stands up to corporate merikua!

[uppityperson]

179. I witnessed a change in my child post vx. He began to talk and got toilet trained.

Good lord, anyone who doesn't see a change in their child's development at even 3 months of age should get that child checked out asap.

"Damn anyone who stands up to corporate merikua! "? Hahahahaha. More like Damn anyone who stands up to science and proof of causation rather than correlations and coincidences.

Correlation does not = causation.

Edited to add, did you read the part where her child that got autism after a vaccine doesn't really have autism?

[mzmolly]

180. Nice change of subject. I've read that her child improved with

what she considers proper treatment. Correlation did = causation in the case of Hannah Poling and if you think she's alone, I've got some swampland in Florida ...

[uppityperson]

182. Not a change of subject but responding to what you posted...

"McCarthy is being smeared like those before her who have witnessed a change in their children post vaccination and dared to tell." I witnessed radical changes in my child post vaccination, and I'm daring to tell.

So, aside from her child NOT having autism, he improved with proper treatment? Oh kay.

Nice change of subject to Hannah Poling from you. (since Jenny's kid didn't have autism, let's now change the subject to someone else!)

[mzmolly]

183. I don't think you're qualified to diagnose her child from a distance.

You changed the subject from "she's anti vaccination" to her kid doesn't have autism. Her child does have autism, he was diagnosed with autism. You guys really have to start thinking for yourselves vs. believing all the pro-pharma propaganda.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/24/jenny.autism/index.html

I didn't know what was going on with my son Evan. One day he was a completely healthy 2-year-old and the next he kept having life-threatening seizures.

Actress Jenny McCarthy details her son's battle with autism in a new book.

Countless doctors and hospitals couldn't get to the bottom of it, and no one could figure out the right diagnosis. We continued trying different anti-seizure medicines, but they either made Evan act psychotic or like a zombie. Finally, I got an appointment to see the best pediatric neurologist in Los Angeles.

I was beyond nervous in the doctor's office. My heart was beating so loudly that I bet Evan thought it was a drum in the next room.

When the door opened and a sweet older man walked in, I immediately felt good. I started telling him about all the seizure activity and what had been said so far about Evan. He listened closely but had his eyes on Evan the whole time. I could tell he was evaluating Evan and his bizarre behavior.

He asked me a couple of questions and seemed very peaceful about the whole thing. I was starting to feel more relaxed as he played with Evan, and then he stood up and opened his office door and told his secretary to cancel his next appointment. I thought to myself, "Wow, he must really like us. This is some big VIP treatment."

He closed the door and pulled his chair up close to mine and put his hand on my hand. He looked at me with sorrowful eyes and said, "I'm sorry, your son has autism."

I pointed out that Hannah Poling is a real child, with autism and this is a result of vaccination. She is MOST certainly NOT alone. I find it absolutely absurd that people on DU claim to know more than the specialists/NEUROLOGISTS who have diagnosed the McCarthy and Polling children with autism.

Jenny McCarthy VACCINATED HER SON. She now recommends an alternate vaccine schedule and a strong immune system before vaccinating. Yet you claim that she's anti-vaccine and toss in the notion that her son didn't have autism. Absurd! You don't want to believe that there is a way out for some. You don't want to believe that some children with autism can recover with proper intervention. Fine, don't. But don't attempt to make a Frist like diagnosis of Evan McCarthy, because you, along with the other pro-pharma crew are not qualified to do so.

Peace

[uppityperson]

184. Neither are you. That diagnosis was most likely wrong. Aug 2008...

http://neurotodayonline.com/pt/re/neurotoday/fulltext.00132985-200808070-00005.htm;jsessionid=KYJCr5pbqvDYhlnZHJpmLv0L4RrHpnSWv4WqhcqXgdzL8XQTXhcK!-1127164547!181195628!8091!-1

In After Vaccine-Autism Case Settlement, MDs Urged to Continue Recommending Vaccines (June 5), Dawn Fallik correctly cites Jenny McCarthy as a celebrity fanning the flames of the vaccine-autism link. McCarthy also makes parents think that autism can be cured with unproven treatments - as she claims is the case with her son - documented in her much publicized book, Louder than Words: A Mother's Journey in Healing Autism (Dutton 2007).

Unfortunately, what the public does not realize as well as perhaps McCarthy is that her son was most likely misdiagnosed with autism in the first place. His disorder began with seizures and, subsequently, with the seizures treated, he improved. This would be more consistent with Landau-Kleffner syndrome, which often is misdiagnosed as autism.

Daniel B. Rubin, MD, PhD

I find it absurd that people on DU claim to know more than the neurologists/specialists that rediagnosed when the original diagnosis seemed wrong.

"You don't want to believe that some children with autism can recover with proper intervention."

WTF? You don't want to believe that some children are improperly diagnosed and then be rediagnosed properly.

"But don't attempt to make a Frist like diagnosis of Evan McCarthy, because you, along with the other pro-pharma crew are not qualified to do so.

Peace"

Good grief. Ignore the fact that there has been a changing diagnosis, instead insult and end with "peace".

[mzmolly]

185. I didn't diagnose this child a NEUROLOGIST who is qualified to do so

did so. Thanks for the article, but I'm already familiar with the tactics used by big-pharma company apologists.

Also, it's not a FACT that there has been a changing diagnosis, since the child was diagnosed with Autism. However, it IS a fact that some prefer to deny what's happening to children as a result of vaccination, so much so, that they'll dispute a diagnosis made by medical authorities in order to protect the coffers of Merck. Perhaps we can come up with a new name, just to suit you? How about, vaccine induced autism like symptoms? :eyes:

Good grief is right!

[uppityperson]

186. If you accuse me of diagnosing by posting a link to a qualified person who did,

you need to notice that you are doing the same thing. I'm already familiar with the tactics used by anti-vax conspiracy fools.

Peace and lightness

[mzmolly]

187. Uppity,

the neurologist who diagnosed this child, in person, is the most qualified to do so.

Peace and lightness to you as well. :hi:

[uppityperson]

188. mzmolly, diagnosis change as more information is gathered and time passes. eom

[mzmolly]

189. Yes, but they are not changed by people with an agenda

who diagnose from a distance.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

195. PHARMA, like the INSURANCE CO's have lots of $$$ and LOBBYISTS

and they also pay for advertising on television, compromising the integrity of those networks.

They should not be allowed to advertise.

Some countries do not permit it.

[uppityperson]

196. I VERY much agree with you on that. They should not be allowed to advertise. eom

[LeftishBrit]

197. I agree on that at any rate...

'They should not be allowed to advertise.

Some countries do not permit it.'

Yes - like mine, for instance.

It should be forbidden everywhere.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

194. GREAT IDEA!

that is a super idea.