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Benefit to risk on Gardasil? Or profits to greed? New news about the unnecessary vaccine.

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 02:43 PM
Original message
Benefit to risk on Gardasil? Or profits to greed? New news about the unnecessary vaccine.
Edited on Fri May-28-10 02:49 PM by truedelphi
First of all , I want to point out that I am not totally against vaccines. Show me a disease that is still occurring for a certain age group, and even if there are risks, since the benefit is something out weighing that risk, and I am for that vaccine. My child was vaccinated for polio, as I had vivid memories of polio epidemics of the early fifties, and had a friend who was the fourth to the last child to end up with polio in the state of Wisconsin. Was there a risk in offering my son that shot in his arm? Yes, but there was also a benefit.

But in the case of the hep vaccine forced upon one day old new borns, I am not able to see the "benefit" out weighing the risk. New borns do not share dirty needles or have unsafe sex, and if their parents' lifestyle troubles the ob/gyn doctors, they can screen those parents.

Now on to the Gardasil vaccine program -
Here is an article from the "smirkingchimp" website:

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/richardgale/29038/will-merck-s-gardasil-hpv-vaccine-be-its-next-vioxx

Injuring and Killing Young Girls and Women as a Profit Stream

Richard Gale and Dr. Gary Null
Progressive Radio Network, May 25, 2010

Do you find something seriously wrong with this scenario?

Reports of faulty gas pedals, obstructive floor carpets and failing breaks in Toyota and Lexus vehicles generated an uproar across major media networks. For the 4 year period starting in 2006, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) had reported 5 deaths, 17 injuries and 13 crashes, and an additional 29 deaths between 2000 and 2005. There was no hesitation among the networks and federal officials to demonize Toyota for knowingly risk the lives of people solely to empty its dealership lots. Even Congress quickly called for a Congressional investigation, and Toyota took upon itself the responsibility to recall over 8 million vehicles.

During the same 4 year period while NHTSA was collecting crash data on Toyota’s lemons, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC)’s Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) database was gathering casualty data following vaccinations with Merck’s human papilloma virus (HPV) vaccine, Gardasil. And it was clear that Merck was far ahead and winning its race against Toyota for the Lemon of the Decade Award. Since Gardasil’s launch in 2006, the vaccine has been responsible for 66 deaths and over 17,700 medical injuries of young girls, as young as 11 years old. Six percent of reported events, or 1,100 girls, were serious enough to require emergency hospitalization.

Unfortunately, vaccine injuries are not reported immediately and thoroughly as automobile accidents and deaths. There are no vaccine police rushing to the scene of vaccine accidents to investigate the incidents and to record injuries and fatalities accurately. Consequently, only a fraction of vaccine adverse events are reported by pediatricians, physicians, medical clinics and hospitals, and make their way eventually into the VAERS database. Few parents even know such a reporting system exists.

<snip>According to the CDC’s own admission, only 10 percent of adverse events get listed on VAERS. This very conservative figure has been refuted by independent analyses; actual records can be as low as 1 percent of all actual negative reactions for any given vaccine. It is therefore realistic to suspect that Gardasil is associated with between 177,000 and 1.7 million adverse effects among vaccinated American girls and young women.<snip>

My comment: these adverse results concern themselves for a vaccine against an illness that takes only 3,500 lives each year in the USA. The "benefit" to risk side of the story simply does not pay off in terms of benefit (unless you work for or have stock in Merck)

Yes, in terms of safety stats, parents would be far wiser to insist that their teens do not text and drive or phone and drive, actions that cause about 80,000 deaths a year (not all these deaths, of course, related to teen drivers,) rather than worrying about a disease that only kills about 3,500 people a year.
Again, you can read the entire article here:

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/richardgale/29038/will-merck-s-gardasil-hpv-vaccine-be-its-next-vioxx
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you K&R, but you'd never notice
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I can imagine that an industry worth a trillion bucks
Give or take a billion or two, has some money to throw at trolls.

And thanks for the K & R.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. .
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Well, Wakefield getting his ass kicked this week has made the anti-vax
crowd a bit defensive....

there's always new vaccines to write crap about.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. That's ridiculous! You are completely wrong.
PLEASE READ THIS!

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/05/hit-and-run-the-uk-gmc-.html

By John Stone

I do not feel tremendously eloquent after sitting through the morning’s proceedings at the UK’s General Medical Council. I am at least heartily relieved that Simon Murch’s ordeal is over – a great and caring man, and I believe the treatment of John Walker-Smith, if not Andrew Wakefield, will have immediate repercussions within the profession.

Walker-Smith, with Alan Walker of Harvard Medical School is widely regarded as the founder of paediatric gastroenterology as an independent field, and the European Society for Paediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology and Nutrition recently made its feelings known by awarding Prof Walker-Smith its first distinguished service medal, on the commendation of Prof Walker – Prof Walker-Smith was informed of this in March and he will receive the medal at a ceremony in June.

We can only wonder at the gang of time-servers and bureaucrats who saw fit to call into question his clinical judgement at more than a decade distant, without talking the patients’ parents, looking at the children or investigating their subsequent medical history...

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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
42. Age of Autism is run by cranks and morons. Do you have a legitimate source?
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. Please try reading some of these,


Research References

Clinical Presentation and Histologic Findings at Ileocolonoscopy in Children with Autistic Spectrum Disorder and Chronic Gastrointestinal Symptoms
Arthur Krigsman, Marvin Boris, Alan Goldblatt3 and Carol Stott

GASTROINTESTINAL PATHOLOGY IN AUTISM SPECTRUM DISORDERS: THE VENEZUELAN EXPERIENCE
Lenny G. González, MD

Gastrointestinal comorbidity, autistic regression and Measles-containing vaccines: positive re-challenge and biological gradient
Andrew J. Wakefield, FRCS FRCPath; Carol Stottb, PhD; and Kirsten Limbc, BSc

Science regarding Treatment-Based Approaches in Autism
by Elizabeth Mumper, MD, Teresa Binstock, Jane Johnson

Commentary: MMR and Autism in Perspective: the Denmark Story
Stott C., Blaxill M., Wakefield AJ.
Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons 2004;9:89-91

Enterocolitis, autism and measles virus
Wakefield AJ.
Molecular Psychiatry. 2002;7:S44-46

Autism, Viral Infection and Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination
Wakefield AJ and Montgomery SM.
Israeli Medical Association Journal 1999;1:183-187

Spontaneous Mucosal Lymphocyte Cytokine Profiles in Children with Autism and Gastrointestinal Symptoms: Mucosal Immune Activation and Reduced Counter Regulatory Interleukin-10
PAUL ASHWOOD,1,5 ANDREW ANTHONY,2 FRANCO TORRENTE,1,3 and ANDREW J. WAKEFIELD4

Small intestinal enteropathy with epithelial IgG and 41 complement deposition in children with regressive
autism
43 F Torrente, P Ashwood, R Day1, N Machado, RI Furlano, A Anthony4, SE Davies4, AJ Wakefield3, 44 MA Thomson, JA Walker-Smith and SH Murch

Immune Response to Dietary Proteins, Gliadin and Cerebellar Peptides in Children with Autism
A. VOJDANIa,b,*, T. O’BRYANc, J.A. GREENd, J. MCCANDLESSe, K.N. WOELLERf, E. VOJDANIg, A.A. NOURIANa and E.L. COOPERb

THE IMMUNOLOGY OF IMMEDIATE AND DELAYED HYPERSENSITIVITY REACTION TO GLUTEN
A. VOJDANI, T. O’BRYAN1 and G.H. KELLERMANN2

THE IMMUNOLOGY OF GLUTEN SENSITIVITY BEYOND THE INTESTINAL TRACT
A. VOJDANI, T. O’BRYAN1 and G.H. KELLERMANN2

Gastrointestinal Pathology in Autism: Description and Treatment
Arthur Krigsman, MD

Active inks herea; http://www.callous-disregard.com/research.htm
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #47
72. Having been among the fortunate few who were able to
Edited on Sun May-30-10 01:36 PM by truedelphi
To view on C Span the Oversight committee (or Government reform committee) during the nineties, and to see first hand how helpful Dr Wakefield was to all the various patients and their parents, I can only say that he was a very decent human being.

On account of Wakefield, we know that it is not just genetics that cause autism - among people brought forward was the mother of identical twins, one of whom was vaccinated on a day when he was ill (A "no no" among vets, but a frequently occurring event among pediatric nurses!) and while the twin who was healthy the day of the vaccination remained normal, the sick toddler went on to full blown autism...

Why the Big Pharma people can be so greedy as to destroy someone like Wakefield, who did the best he could, as he knew that requests for any sort of grant money would be denied, I just don't know.

I will forever be grateful to Senator Burton for convening this panel. If nothing else, it united a lot of parents and brought them together in ways that may someday have unforeseen consequences. (Already some of those parents were the leaders of the petition with the 10,000 names on it. In the old days, the observations of 10,000 people noticing an event would have become part of science, falling under the "inductive" reasoning end of science, but in this day and age, 10,000 people noticing their healthy child becoming a victim first of convulsions and high fever, then of diarrhea, etc, immediatley after a vaccination, these observations are dismissed as just "anecdotal nonsense.")

"Bwando is great! It has electrolytes." Only thing "Idiocracy" got wrong is the pervasiveness of a population's defective reasoning is not in the distant future - it is right here and now.

Big Industry is forever changing the meaning of logic. Logic for Big Pharma now only occurs in their industry-money-sponsored "university laboratory" setting.

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #47
76. I have copied many of your links, citations and references to
Edited on Mon May-31-10 03:42 PM by truedelphi
The Hard Drive.

Liking these paragraphs here:

“Unfortunately, the approach recommended sets up a paradox: if the public are not to be listened to, why should the doctors? Whatever else doctors Wakefield, Walker-Smith and Murch did they listened to the parents, and now their names have been thoroughly dragged through the mud without any parent ever having complained. Without commenting here directly on the GMC decision this may not help public perceptions of the medical profession.”

A terrifying and thinly disguised message has been sent to medical profession: it does not matter who you are – you can be, as Prof Walker-Smith was in his self-effacing way, one of the two leading figures in his field study and universally loved by his colleagues - but if you call into question, however mildly, the safety of the vaccine programme the system will smash you (HERE).

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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. But FIRST, reread the excerpt in post #19 and do some internet research ON THE CONTENT yourself.
Edited on Sat May-29-10 08:51 AM by proverbialwisdom
...unless you have an agenda to obfuscate.


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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #42
55. Age of Autism ROCKS and I've been reading it for a little over a year.
Edited on Sat May-29-10 09:48 AM by proverbialwisdom
I'd suggest readers start with this article,

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/01/from-the-roman-to-the-wakefield-inquisition.html
January 27, 2010
From The Roman to The Wakefield Inquisition


then read CATEGORIES on the homepage, far left, all the links to articles written by:

Mark Blaxill (Princeton BS, Harvard MBA)

JB Handley (Oregon hedge fund or venture capital CEO)

Olmsted on Autism (Yale)

David Kirby

Steven Higgs (The Bloomington Alternative)

also,
Katie Wright
Kent Heckenlively
Jake Crosby


There is also a helpful site search engine on the far right.

I encourage readers to scan the site and judge for themselves.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #42
61. +1 Exactly.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #42
65. NEW GI/ASD study! MUST READ!
Edited on Sat May-29-10 07:06 PM by proverbialwisdom
How is the link contained in this post?

QUOTE
http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2010/05/turns-out-autism-is-associated-with-gi.html

Turns out autism IS associated with GI disorders... who knew?

And oddest thing of all, this was "discovered" by Autism Speaks and The Autism Treatment Network, which is Kennedy Krieger, which is Johns Hopkins, not exactly friendly factions to biomed really.

So you think that they will pick up the phone and call ARI and apologize for dissing them for a decade or so, and then say sorry to the children who have been suffering while they conferenced and committied and scoffed and vacationed?


http://www.abstracts2view.com/pas/view.php?nu=PAS10L1_1926&terms

<2320.7> GI Symptoms in Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD): An Autism Treatment Network Study

Kent Williams, George J. Fuchs, Glenn Furuta, Margaret Marcon, Daniel L. Coury, Autism Treatment Network GI Committee. Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN; University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Little Rock, AK; University of Colorado at Denver, Denver, CO; Hospital for Sick Children, Toronto, Canada; Nationwide Children's Hospital, Columbus, OH.

BACKGROUND: The prevalence of GI symptoms in children and adolescents with ASD is uncertain, with studies reporting conflicting results.

OBJECTIVE: To determine the frequency of GI symptoms as reported by parents in a large ASD registry, and to identify factors associated with GI symptoms in children with ASD.

DESIGN/METHODS: Autism Treatment Network Registry enrolled 1420 children, age 2-18 years, with an ADOS-confirmed ASD diagnosis (autism, Asperger disorder, or PDD-NOS) at 15 sites in the US and Canada. Parents completed a GI symptom inventory tailored to the needs of nonverbal children, as well as Child Behavior Checklist (CBCL), Child Sleep Health Questionnaire (CSHQ) and Pediatric Quality of Life (PedsQL) at time of enrollment.

RESULTS: GI symptom data were available for 1185 children. Overall 45% of children were reported to have GI symptoms at time of enrollment. Of GI complaints that occurred within the 3 months prior to enrollment, abdominal pain was most common (59%) followed by constipation (51%), diarrhea (43%), other (40%), nausea (31%) and bloating (26%). Reports of GI symptoms increased with age, ranging from 39% in those under 5 years to 51% in those 7 years and older (p<0.0001). Children ages 1 to 5 years with GI symptoms had higher CBCL t-scores for total problems and for the emotionally reactive, anxious/depressed, somatic complaints, sleep problems, internalizing problems, affective problems, and anxiety problems subscales, all p<0.05. Children ages 6 to 18 years with GI symptoms had higher CBCL t-scores for total problems and for all subscales (p<0.01). Sleep problems occurred more frequently in children with than those without GI symptoms (70% versus 30%, p<0.0001). Children with GI symptoms had lower PedsQL scores (overall score and all five subscales, p<0.01) compared to children without GI problems. Presence of GI problems did not differ by gender, ASD subtype, race, or IQ.

CONCLUSIONS: Parents of children with ASD report a high prevalence of GI symptoms in their children. This prevalence increases with age. GI complaints are significantly associated with behavioral abnormalities in all age groups. GI symptoms are also significantly associated with sleep disturbances and decreased health-related quality of life. Further definition is needed on the role and potential impact of treatment of GI disorders on behavior, sleep disturbance, and quality of life in children with ASD.
----------------------

And don't forget to tune into NBC to see Dr. Nancy apologize and BBC America to see the British Medical Establishment express their profound regret to Wakefield et. al and the families they have sabotaged as their children languished in GI distress that they claimed didn't exist.

Brian Deer must feel really awful right now. I can't imagine his guilt. END QUOTE

Posted by Ginger Taylor at Friday, May 07, 2010
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
45. Your reply suggests that I am dead on correct.
The vehemence of your reply, coupled with the defense of Wakefield from a pathetic source that suggests his martyrdom indicates to me that I got it right.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. Please try reading some of these,
Bibliography of GI-related papers

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in an autism dietary trial. J Hum Nutr Diet. 2008;21:374.

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children with autism. Pediatrics. 2003 Oct;112(4):939-42.

Alberti A, Pirrone P, Elia M, Waring R, Romano C. Sulphation deficit in "low-functioning" autistic children: a pilot study. Biol Psychiatry 1999; 46 (3), 420-424.

Ashwood P, Wakefield AJ. Ileal and peripheral blood CD3+ cytokine profiles in children with regressive autism and gastrointestinal symptoms: Mucosal immune activation and reduced counter regulatory interleukin-10. Journal of Neuroimmunology. 2006;73:126-34.

Ashwood P, Anthony A, Pellicer AA, Torrente F, Walker-Smith JA, Wakefield AJ. Intestinal lymphocyte populations in children with regressive autism: evidence for extensive mucosal immunopathology. J Clin Immunol. 2003 Nov;23(6):504-17. PMID: 15031638.

Ashwood P, Anthony A, Torrente F, Wakefield AJ. Spontaneous mucosal lymphocyte cytokine profiles in children with autism and gastrointestinal symptoms: Mucosal immune activation and reduced counter regulatory interleukin-10. J Clin Immunol. 2004;24(6):664–73.

Ashwood P, Van de Water J. Is autism an autoimmune disease? Autoimmun Rev. 2004 Nov;3(7-8):557-62.

Ashwood P, Wakefield AJ. Immune activation of peripheral blood and mucosal CD3+ lymphocyte cytokine profiles
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Ashwood P, Willis S, Van de Water J. The immune response in autism: a new frontier for autism research. J Leuk Biol. 2006 Jul:80;1-15.

Balzola F, Barbon V, Repici A, Rizzetto M. Panenteric IBDlike disease in a patient with regressive autism shown for the first time by the wireless capsule enteroscopy: another piece in the jigsaw of this gut-brain syndrome? Am J Gastro. 2005;100(4):979–81.

Balzola F, Daniela C, Repici A, Barbon V, Sapino A, Barbera C, Calvo PL, Gandione M, Rigardetto R, Rizzetto M. Autistic enterocolitis: confirmation of a new inflammatory bowel disease in an Italian cohort of patients. Gastroenterology. 2005;128:Suppl.2;A-303.

Balzola F, et al. Autistic Enterocolitis in childhood: the early evidence of the later Crohn’s disease in autistic adulthood? Gastroenterology April 2007 Vol 132, N. 4, suppl 2 W 1100 A 660.

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From http://www.callous-disregard.com/research.htm
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Smilies are artifact, obviously, from C+P.
Edited on Sat May-29-10 09:02 AM by proverbialwisdom
Incidentally, if I do not reply, it is because I am away from my computer, not because I have conceded the debate.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. Oh look..
it's this poster, complaining about "this thread again" again.

and for the 1,000th time: you don't have to click on the little links. Heck, you don't even have to come to these forums since you're so frequently annoyed by the topics of discussion.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. We are evolving into a corporate state..and whatever helps the bottom line of the corporations
is acceptable...

Govt agencies, media, legislators, all on the payroll of the corporate "persons".
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Your statement sums it up rather nicely.
Edited on Fri May-28-10 03:05 PM by truedelphi
And of course it helps that we now have an entire society of "Bwando is good! It's the electrolytes!" style citizens fighting on behalf of those corporations...

(For those who don't know the reference - Line is from spoof movie "Idiocracy." Well worth the rental fee.)
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. The saftey profile for Gardasil is comparable for most vaccines, and Gardasil is safe for
most girls and women. This vaccine is NOT forced on anyone. The only thing that should be done is a more complete disclosure to patients.

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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. It's forced on high school students in Texas...n/t
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Sorry, that never happened, they were going to do that, but because of the protest
reversed it
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. That's good news because the makers of this were Rick perry's largest
campaign contributor...if that doesn't send up warning flags, nothing else will.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. It was overturned by the Texas legislature, unless something else subsequently happened that
Edited on Fri May-28-10 03:26 PM by still_one
I am not aware of. There is no need for this vaccine to be mandatory because HPV is NOT transmitted through normal contacts like influenza, or other infectious diseases

Merck was quite stupid for trying to push it as a madatory vaccine.

As for the populous of Texas, they voted for Rick Perry, but were very upset with this mandatory requirement. I suspect it was less due to potential side-effects of the vaccine, and more due to the "promiscuity" issue that the religious right was pushing


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Gardasil is not cheap, and MRK does make money off it. However, a lot of vaccines are not
money makers

I was not arguing for or against vaccines, only that there was no need to make this vaccine mandatory. Incidently, why Gardasil, and not the GSK product which handles more variants of HPV?

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
37. Didn't know about the link between Big Pharma and Rick Perry.
Thank you for disclosing that.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I hear it did the 9-11.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
60. +1
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Anti-vax BS.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Asolutely, however Merck did itself no favors by trying to push certain states to make it mandatory
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. My male cousin died too young from throat cancer. My mother
Edited on Fri May-28-10 03:28 PM by hedgehog
is pushing me to get my sons vaccinated as well as my daughters.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11819-oral-sex-can-cause-throat-cancer.html
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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's is truly sad
Progressives rant and rail against Conservatives stupidity, ignorance, lack of education, anti-science viewpoint (evolution) and general anti-intellectual views.
And then we have our own mirror images of Conservative behaviour when it comes to anti-vaccine zealots.

"Proud member of the reality based community"?????

Not with all those

anti-vaccine
crystal worshipping
indigo children
alternative medicine
homeopathic medicine
anti-spaceflight


"members" who engage in these types of beliefs.


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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. You are misinformed.
Let me recommend Wakefield's newly published book, CALLOUS DISREGARD.

http://www.amazon.com/Callous-Disregard-Autism-Vaccines-Tragedy/dp/1616081694
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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Misinformed?? Reccomendation???
Don't make me fucking laugh. :mad: A book by a crackpot doctor who has had his license revoked, with a foreword by a another crackpot? You just proved my earlier post.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. If you're actually sincere, I pity you when you discover you've been duped.
Edited on Fri May-28-10 06:16 PM by proverbialwisdom
Max Planck: "It is one of the most painful experiences of my entire scientific career that I have seldom -- in fact, I might say never -- succeeded in obtaining universal recognition for a new result, the truth of which I could demonstrate by a conclusive but only theoretical proof. . . . A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponenet and making them see the light; but it triumphs because its opponents finally die off, leaving a new generation that is familiar with the new idea."

From http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/05/autism-and-the.html#more
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
62. You, unfortunately, are the one who has been duped
by Wakefield. His research has been discredited, top to bottom. His license has been revoked in the UK. His article in The Lancet has been withdrawn, nearly unprecedented in a journal that prefers to let bogus claims die a silent and ignominious death on their own.

Wake up.

Research has been done to death on vaccines and by doctors who have scrupulously adhered to the proper scientific method. None of it has turned up any link between vaccines and any secondary disease process, including autism, now known to be a birth defect.

Wake up.

It's not easy to admit you've been fooled by a slick snake oil salesman, but reading outside the narrow box bordered by health food and tin hat sites will help you do it. The research is done. The data are in. Wakefield is a liar and a scoundrel.

Wake up.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. Wakefield's been struck off the rolls for what's essentially malpractice!
Edited on Fri May-28-10 06:46 PM by depakid
Of course, we can't let that fact get in the way of spreading irrational hysteria....
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. YOU failed to comprehend post #19.
Edited on Fri May-28-10 07:10 PM by proverbialwisdom
http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/05/hit-and-run-the-uk-gmc-.html
By John Stone
May 24, 2010
"I do not feel tremendously eloquent after sitting through the morning’s proceedings at the UK’s General Medical Council. I am at least heartily relieved that Simon Murch’s ordeal is over – a great and caring man, and I believe the treatment of John Walker-Smith, if not Andrew Wakefield, will have immediate repercussions within the profession.

Walker-Smith, with Alan Walker of Harvard Medical School is widely regarded as the founder of paediatric gastroenterology as an independent field, and the European Society for Paediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology and Nutrition recently made its feelings known by awarding Prof Walker-Smith its first distinguished service medal, on the commendation of Prof Walker – Prof Walker-Smith was informed of this in March and he will receive the medal at a ceremony in June.

We can only wonder at the gang of time-servers and bureaucrats who saw fit to call into question his clinical judgement at more than a decade distant, without talking the patients’ parents, looking at the children or investigating their subsequent medical history..."



DID YOU CATCH THAT? Dr. Wakefield, Dr. Murch and Dr. Walker-Smith wrote a joint paper. All were (mis)judged guilty of 'callous disregard.' Ultimately, Wakefield and Walker-Smith lost their UK licenses.

HOWEVER, Walker-Smith is "the founder of pediatric gastroenterology as an independent field," along with Dr. Alan Walker of Harvard Medical School, and the European Society for Pediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology and Nutrition decided in March 2010 to award Professor Walker-Smith its first distinguished service medal on the recommendation of Harvard Medical School professor, Alan Walker (incidentally, the co-founder of the specialty of pediatric gastroenterology as an independent field), to be presented in June.


HOW'S THAT GRAB YOU? Respected by his peers and to be honored next month? I'd reconsider my views, if I were you.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. I comprehend that the guys are quacks- and been struck off the rolls by their peers
and that they've duped a lot of people into buying into their dangerous malarkey.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #41
51. By their peers? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Edited on Sat May-29-10 09:12 AM by proverbialwisdom
You must read this: http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2010/02/anatomy-of-witch-hunt.html


In particular, take a close look at the top diagram of 'conflicts of interest.'

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
59. You're offering fiction from a BS propaganda site.
Hello? Is anyone home?
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-10 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #59
79. Not true. That information is corroborated at these links.
Edited on Tue Jun-01-10 09:15 PM by proverbialwisdom
http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/05/comment-professor-john-walkersmith-on-erasure-from-uk-medical-register.html
May 24, 2010
Comment from Professor John Walker-Smith on Erasure from UK Medical Register

Commenting on the GMC decision of 24 May 2010, Professor John Walker-Smith said: “I am devastated that the GMC has decided to erase me from the medical register. At each stage of the GMC’s investigation and hearing I have put forward strong evidence contesting the central allegations against me. It is deeply disappointing that the GMC has chosen to impose a sanction of such severity despite the evidence they had available to them. I have always and will continue to vigorously contest any suggestion of wrongdoing on my part.”

“For 40 years I dedicated my career to paediatric gastroenterology and am proud of the worldwide recognition I have received from my peers in the medical community. I have always been committed to the care of children and my first concern has been to do the best for them. I am forever indebted to my colleagues, family and friends for their support and understanding during what has been a difficult and prolonged investigation. I will now be considering the GMC’s findings in detail with my legal advisers.”


As noted in the post you dismissed, Professor Walker-Smith will be receiving a Distinguished Service Award from the European Society for Pediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology and Nutrition shortly.


SEE:
http://espghan.med.up.pt/joomla/
European Society for Pediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology and Nutrition

http://www.espghan2010.org/default.aspx?PageID=Home
43th Annual Meeting
9-12 June, 2010 Istanbul, Turkey

http://espghan.med.up.pt/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=102&Itemid=135
ESPGHAN Distinguished Service Award
What is the purpose of the Distinguished Service Award?
To recognize an individual who has provided a major contribution to the development of Paediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology or Nutrition. It can be recognized as a lifetime accomplishment, or celebrate a major recent achievement. The field may be basic science or clinical work...
Award Recognition:
The recipient will be awarded a medal and certificate by the President of ESPGHAN during the Annual Meeting, there will also be a feature in JPGN.


WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT FOR FURTHER DETAILS.


ALSO SEE:
http://journals.lww.com/pedresearch/Fulltext/2003/04000/The_Development_of_Pediatric_Gastroenterology__A.27.aspx
Pediatric Research:
April 2003 - Volume 53 - Issue 4 - pp 706-715
Special Article
The Development of Pediatric Gastroenterology: A Historical Overview: A History of Pediatric Specialties
WALKER-SMITH, JOHN; WALKER, W. ALLAN

AND SEE:
http://www.massgeneral.org/children/professionals/fellowships/gastroenterology/history.aspx
History of Pediatric Gastroenterology & Nutrition at MassGeneral Hospital for Children

The Pediatric Gastroenterology Unit of what was known as the Children’s Service at Massachusetts General Hospital was established in 1972. The unit’s first director, Allan Walker, MD, trained in Pediatrics and Immunology at the University of Minnesota Hospitals under Robert Good, MD. Since no pediatric gastroenterology (GI) training programs existed in 1969, Dr. Walker left pediatrics for three years to train as an adult GI fellow with Dr. Kurt Isselbacher on the Medical Service at Mass General.

Once established, the nascent Pediatric GI Unit received substantial impetus by aligning itself with the well-established and nationally recognized GI Unit of the Medical Services at Mass General. Pediatric GI fellows could take rotations in medical GI, attend and participate in weekly GI Grand Rounds and journal clubs as well as the weekly research conference. Since Pediatric GI had no NIH training grant at its beginning, Dr. Isselbacher graciously allowed the Pediatric GI fellows to be funded on his training grant during their two year period of research fellowship.

This close working relationship with Adult GI has continued to be a major strength of the Pediatric GI program at MassGeneral Hospital for Children and has led to many collaborations in both basic and clinical research over the years, most recently with the support of Dr. Daniel Podolsky, who followed Dr. Isselbacher as Chief of the GI Unit at Mass General and Dr. Ramnik Xavier, who has followed Dr. Podolsky. Since GI subspecialty patients frequently require ongoing care beyond the cut off period of 21 years for pediatrics, it is helpful to have transitional care by both pediatric and medical gastroenterologists until the patient adjusts to a new situation. This is done seamlessly and provides outstanding continuity of patient care at Mass General.

Over the next 10 years after its inception, the pediatric unit flourished. Pediatricians in training became aware of the potential of gastroenterology as a subspecialty and Pediatric Department chairmen recognized the expanding field required more expertise than that provided by the General Academic Pediatrician. In addition, specialized procedures (liver biopsy, endoscopy, pH probes, etc.) became part of the practice of gastroenterology and could only be done by specially trained pediatric gastroenterologists. With the recognition that many gastrointestinal and hepatic conditions occurred in the pediatric age period and were more complex than conditions encountered in adult GI medicine, many pediatricians, interested in the pathophysiology of disease, were attracted to choose pediatric gastroenterology as a subspecialty.

Accordingly, the Pediatric GI Unit at Mass General, because of the reputation of gastroenterology at the hospital and because of the emphasis on a physician/scientist approach to the subspecialty, attracted outstanding applicants wishing to enter the field as academic subspecialists.

Beginning in 1972, two pediatricians from various training programs in the United States and elsewhere were accepted into the program. These trainees entered a three-year training program consisting of one year of clinical rotations in Pediatric Gastroenterology followed by two years of laboratory research in an established laboratory of investigation that could enhance the fellows’ research expertise in related areas of interest. From the beginning, the overall theme of research under Dr. Walker’s supervision was developmental mucosal immunology, work that continues to this day.

In 1981, with the departure of Richard Grand, MD, from Children’s Hospital to direct Pediatric GI at Tufts New England Medical Center/Floating Children’s Hospital, Dr. Walker was asked by Mary Ellen Avery, MD, Chairman of Pediatrics at Children’s Hospital, and Donald Medearis, MD, Chairman of the Children’s Service at Mass General, to establish a Combined Program in Pediatric Gastroenterology at the two pediatric services at Harvard.

From 1981 until 2001, a Combined Program in Pediatric Gastroenterology existed. In this program, four to five fellows per year were accepted for a three-year period of clinical and research training.

In 1990, the first Pediatric Gastroenterology subspecialty board examination was held to certify pediatric gastroenterologists as boarded subspecialists. This required three years of clinical and research training, which included a continuity clinic to follow patients during the two research years. A committee of faculty (within and outside of Pediatric GI) was established to monitor the progress of the fellows during their research experience.

...In 2001, Dr. Walker stepped down from his role as Chief of the Combined Program in Pediatric Gastroenterology to return to Mass General to expand the research facilities. He obtained 15,000 square feet of research space and expanded the Pediatric GI capacity to include eight Principal Investigators, 15 research fellows, (including two Pediatric GI fellows doing basic research) and several graduate students in Building 149 and Building 114 in the Charlestown Navy Yard (an expanded off campus research facility for Mass General).

From its inception as a Pediatric Unit to the establishment of a combined program and then two separate programs again in Pediatric GI (occurring in 2005), more than 100 Pediatric GI fellows have been trained in the Mass General program. Many of these fellows have established their own program in Pediatric Gastroenterology at medical schools throughout the United States, the UK, Europe, Australia and Asia. Almost 50 percent of trainees are still actively involved in clinical or basic research and more than 80 percent practice at academic centers...


I trust Professor Allan Walker's assessment of Professor Walker-Smith's work. And your innuendo about AoA cannot discredit that.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
66. Wakefiel is a FRAUD who just recently had the book thrown at him!
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Your preference is to ignore the conflicts of interest of Wakefield opponents?
Edited on Sat May-29-10 10:36 PM by proverbialwisdom
Two examples follow (Drs. Gerberding and Thorsen):

http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2009/12/julie-gerberding-named-head-of-merck.html
Former CDC Chief Julie Gerberding Named Head of Merck Vaccines

http://www.lifehealthchoices.com/blog/?p=403
Note from Louise: Could it be fair to say that Gerberding has been working for pharma all along? It'll be old home week when she starts up with her new employer -- the New Jersey-based firm will welcome her with arms wide open. There she'll find Eddy Bresnitz, NJ's former State epidemiologist and deputy commissioner of health, responsible for mandating the seasonal flu and Hib vaccines to NJ's children, before he skipped off to Whitehouse Station to head up adult vaccines for Merck. Should our elected and appointed government officials be permitted to scratch the back of industry while in office and immediately take the revolving door into a cushy private sector job? When is enough enough?]

and

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/03/poul-thorsens-mutating-resume.html
March 10, 2010
Poul Thorsen's Mutating Resume
By Dan Olmsted and Mark Blaxill

In bits and pieces, in Danish and English, from three universities in two hemispheres and the CDC in Atlanta, a picture has begun forming in the past few days that is already startling in its outline: Paul Thorsen, one of the key scientists involved in CDC-backed studies exonerating vaccines as a cause of autism, is under investigation for collecting millions of dollars in bogus “grant” money, misrepresenting himself to his employers and the world and possibly forging the documents that enabled the scam...

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/03/danish-scientist-absconds-with-2-million-poul-thorsen-proved-vaccines-dont-cause-autism-.html
March 07, 2010
Danish Scientist Absconds with $2 million, Poul Thorsen "Proved" Vaccines Don't Cause Autism


http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/03/frantic-cdcs-dr-diane-simpson-travels-the-world-to-find-dr-poul-thorsen.html
March 06, 2010
Frantic: CDC’s Dr. Diane Simpson Travels the World to Find Dr. Poul Thorsen
By J.B. Handley

Without Dr. Diane Simpson, a CDC employee, Dr. Poul Thorsen would likely be a person none of us would have ever heard of. I’m looking forward to following the case of Dr. Thorsen and the implications it may have for the withdrawl of some of the most important documents used to shut the door on the possible link between thimerosal and autism. For AoA readers, I provide some background on Dr. Simpson’s critical and “frantic” role in locating data...

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. LOL at your souces.
There is no "Epidemic". I'm fucking sick of this hysteria and I am sick of anti-vax idiots called me poisoned because a bunch of frauds and an ex-pornstar say so.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Google the names and read other sources then.
Edited on Sun May-30-10 10:24 AM by proverbialwisdom
Or read the AoA posts cited and the links provided to the sources their posts are based upon. It's good to be skeptical.

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. We in the Neurodiversity community have been looking at these sources for ages...
...and they are all crap.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. It is sad, but ignorance knows no ideology.
I would say ignorant liberals are worse, because they do know better.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
39. At least our grammar is correct, lol. nt
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R ! //nt
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. Richard Gale and Gary Null are both anti-vaccine nuts.
So pardon use if we don't take you seriously when you claim you're not against vaccines.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Here's some reading.
Edited on Fri May-28-10 06:34 PM by proverbialwisdom
AoA SITE SEARCH
http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=gardasil&domains=ageofautism.com&sitesearch=ageofautism.com


includes the following:
http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/08/cbs-news-sharyl-attkisson-gardasil-researcher-speaks-out-your-sons-are-next.html
August 21, 2009
CBS News Sharyl Attkisson: "Gardasil Researcher Speaks Out." Your Sons are Next.

Sharyl Attkisson is looking out for America's young girls and women in her piece "Gardasil Researcher Speaks Out" on CBS News HERE:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/19/cbsnews_investigates/main5253431.shtmltag=cbsnewsLeadStoriesAreaMain;cbsnewsLeadStoriesPrimary

(CBS) Amid questions about the safety of the HPV vaccine Gardasil one of the lead researchers for the Merck drug is speaking out about its risks, benefits and aggressive marketing.

Dr. Diane Harper says young girls and their parents should receive more complete warnings before receiving the vaccine to prevent cervical cancer. Dr. Harper helped design and carry out the Phase II and Phase III safety and effectiveness studies to get Gardasil approved, and authored many of the published, scholarly papers about it. She has been a paid speaker and consultant to Merck. It’s highly unusual for a researcher to publicly criticize a medicine or vaccine she helped get approved.

Dr. Harper joins a number of consumer watchdogs, vaccine safety advocates, and parents who question the vaccine’s risk-versus-benefit profile. She says data available for Gardasil shows that it lasts five years; there is no data showing that it remains effective beyond five years.

Read Judicial Watch reports on Gardasil: http://www.judicialwatch.org/gardasil
Dr. LaPook’s Story on HPV (see site)
Attkisson's Exclusive Report on Gardasil: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/06/eveningnews/main4781658.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

This raises questions about the CDC’s recommendation that the series of shots be given to girls as young as 11-years old. “If we vaccinate 11 year olds and the protection doesn’t last... we’ve put them at harm from side effects, small but real, for no benefit,” says Dr. Harper. “The benefit to public health is nothing, there is no reduction in cervical cancers, they are just postponed, unless the protection lasts for at least 15 years, and over 70% of all sexually active females of all ages are vaccinated.” She also says that enough serious side effects have been reported after Gardasil use that the vaccine could prove riskier than the cervical cancer it purports to prevent. Cervical cancer is usually entirely curable when detected early through normal Pap screenings...

and this,

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/05/a-license-to-kill-part-3-after-gardasils-launch-more-victims-more-bad-safety-analysis-and-a-revolvin.html
After Gardasil’s Launch, More Victims, More Bad Safety Analysis and a Revolving Door Culture, Part 3
By Mark Blaxill

In parts 1(HERE: http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/05/a-license-to-kill-part-1-how-a-publicprivate-partnership-made-the-government-mercks-gardasil-partner.html )
and 2 (HERE: http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/05/a-license-to-kill-part-2-who-guards-gardasils-guardians.html )
of this series, Age of Autism identified a disturbing pattern of conflicts within the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) regarding Merck’s Gardasil vaccine. In an unprecedented “public-private partnership,” researchers at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) patented the technology for the “virus-like particles” (VLPs) that provoke Gardasil’s immune response to the human papillomavirus (HPV) and licensed their VLP technology to Merck. The terms of the patent license effectively made DHHS Merck’s financial partner on Gardasil, giving DHHS a clear conflict of interest on decisions regarding Gardasil...
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. It's all a load of horshit, you know.
Or maybe not.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Sorry, no time to find specific link.
http://harvardmagazine.com/breaking-news/hsph-professor-lagakos-killed
HSPH Professor Killed in Car Accident
October 13, 2009

http://www.google.com/search?q=Stephen+Lagakos+gardasil&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLA_en
Dr. Lagakos had just concluded "...Giving Gardasil to Boys Not Cost-Effective: Study -- coverage from Reuters..."

Do some research, please.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I'm familiar with all that shit.
It's still shit.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Conflict of interest may compromise scientific integrity.
Edited on Fri May-28-10 06:49 PM by proverbialwisdom
I'll stick with the sources I've cited. It's your prerogative to do likewise.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Scientific illiteracy and just outright lies compromise the anti-vaccine movement.
By all means, stick with the shit you've cited.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #36
52. Obviously false charges. See posts #48 and #47 above.
Edited on Sat May-29-10 09:10 AM by proverbialwisdom
I'm so excited to have just learned that Wakefield's co-authors included one of the co-founders of the specialty of pediatric gastroenterology, Professor Walker-Smith, and that the European Society of Pediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology and Nutrition has chosen to honor him next month, on the recommendation of the other co-founder of the field, Professor Alan Walker of Harvard Medical School.

Sort of blows up your 'quacks rejected by their peers' argument (in non-technical terms), if you ask me.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
29. Funny how Australia neiher has problems with vacinating kids OR with its Toyotas!
Edited on Fri May-28-10 06:44 PM by depakid
Seems to be a predominantly American thing- a lot like science illiteracy and fundamentalism, come to think of it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
31. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Rebuttal in links from posts 25 and 27 .
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Are you aware of what expression "benefits to risks" indicates?
Please read post 25 as to what the risks are.

Vaccinating an eleven year old with a vaccine material that only provides five years of immunization is absolutely pointless - the type of cancer that this vaccine prevents does not occur in eleven to eighteen years olds.

So at that point the vaccination is nothing BUT RISK. No gain, but statistically risky.

However, benefit or not, Merck is still able to achieve their profits.

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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. That's where homeopathy and other woo comes in.
Every one of these woo sites is selling some cancer-treating bullshit. It's a niche market but a profitable one.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
43. Until females are 25 yrs old, their bodies rid themselves of the virus. It is UNNECESSARY for teens.
Edited on Fri May-28-10 08:08 PM by KittyWampus
edit- I've posted legitimate medical citations for this numerous times on DU.

I am not "anti-vaccine". But the way Gardasil is marketed for young women is obscene.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #43
56. Wow.
errr- about the only things I can say is you're mistaken about that- and that I'm glad we live in a sane country where young girls are routinely vaccinated at no cost.
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phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #43
75. Dunno about your assertion.
I had moderate cervical dysplasia (caused by exposure to the HPV virus) at age 24, and needed cryosurgery. I am a very, very healthy person, and my body obviously didn't rid itself of the virus.
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
44. Oh good GRIEF.
Did someone leave the Sanitarium, I mean Health Forum, unlocked again?

:crazy:
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #44
54. Name calling is so lame...
...not to mention juvenile.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. Howling that one has been called a name
when no name calling has occurred is a typical right wing ploy and doomed to failure on a site where most people are wise to it.
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
53. This OP
:popcorn:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
57. K
and R. An excellent article.

Has anyone suggested that questioning Toyota is anti-car and those who do so wish to return to the days of horse and buggy yet?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
58. A bunch of anti-vaccine BS by one of the kings of anti-vaccine nonsense: Gary Null.
Gary Null – Hoist with his Own Petard
http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1899

Gary Null Near Death Due To Taking His Own Medicine
http://roguemedic.blogspot.com/2010/04/gary-null-near-death-due-to-taking-his.html

That story should be all you need to know about this guy, but more can be found if you look for it. He is a quack.

-----

As for the reality on Gardasil...

The HPV Vaccine
http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=999#more-999

Mercola, Gardasil, and Toyota?
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=4482

Age of Autism and Gardasil: What's that again about not being "anti-vaccine"?
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/05/age_of_autism_and_gardasil_whats_that_ag.php

DrPal, tell us more about HPV and cancer
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2008/08/drpal_tell_us_more_about_hpv_a.php


.............


Meanwhile, as we can see, science continues to be misrepresented by those who either don't understand it, or who feel they can benefit from fooling others.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
64. This shit passes for bad medical advice and ought to locked. Nt
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-10 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #64
86. +1
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-10 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
71. "Unnecessary" - I don't think so
You're going to push this shit at a reader who is gullible and decides not to get the shot and then dies from cancer. Of course, you won't know it, being wrapped in your cocoon of smug ignorance.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. Again, since it is being pushed on the eleven to fifteen year old age group
Edited on Mon May-31-10 03:24 AM by truedelphi
The vaccine carries no benefit but does carry plenty of risk.

Teens do not get this cancer. It takes at least fifteen years to develop and that first fifteen years has to be AFTER one is sexually active.

So if it indeed only is effective in a young woman's bloodstream for five years, then loses its effectiveness, no young women are gaining a thing but the cited risks.

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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. On the contrary, the vaccine loses effectiveness if given when you have *already* been exposed
to HPV.

Therefore, to be maximally effective it needs to be given before the onset of sexual activity. Afterwards, it doesn't have the same impact.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. But if it is true that the vaccine is only effective for five years, then
Edited on Mon May-31-10 03:47 PM by truedelphi
What benefit is there?

We know the risks:

According to the website Medalerts.org, a young woman vaccinated with Gardasil is ten times more likely to file a VAERS report compared to an influenza vaccination. HPV vaccines now account for 20 percent of all vaccine side effects aside from the H1N1 swine flu vaccine. America’s daughters are twice as likely to have an emergency room visit. They are four times more likely to have a death sentence, five times more likely to receive a report of “did not recover,” and seven times more likely be pronounced “disabled.”

Besides the 66 deaths, Gardasil’s serious side effects now include Guilliane Barre syndrome, lupus, seizures, anaphylactic shock, chronic fatigue, paralysis, blood clots, brain inflammation, blurred vision and blindness, convulsions, demyelinating encephalomyelitis, multiple sclerosis, pancreatitis and various digestive disorders. Last autumn a case of amyltrophic lateral sclerosis, better known as Lou Gehrig’s disease, was reported. And a recent 2010 issue of the Journal of Child Neurology investigated the case of a 16-year old girl going blind following vaccination, a secondary symptom to multiple sclerosis. In her January 2010 article on Vactruth.com, “Website Documents Over 300 Gardasil Horror Stories,” Christina England, a journalist monitoring the politics and science of the HPV vaccines, relates the case of an employee at a large hospital who commented on the 1,000 plus girls who are manifesting psychotic symptoms for no apparent reason other than being vaccinated with Gardasil. Nevertheless, the federal health agencies remain mute and dumb, and the CDC and the FDA continue to stand by their masters at Merck and preach their faith in Gardasil as “safe and effective and the benefits outweigh the risks.”

One would expect that vaccine makers would undertake special precautionary measures when conducting clinical trials for women who are undergoing hormonal changes, such as premenstrual changes during puberity and during various stages of pregnancy. The effects that Gardasil has on young girls entering sexual maturity remain unknown. The principle investigator for Gardasil’s clinical trials, Dr. Diane Harper, has publicly stated that no efficacy and safety trials for any of the HPV vaccines were conducted on girls under the age of 15 years. Neither were trials conducted to determine Gardasil’s safety on pregnant women.


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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-10 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #73
78. "plenty of risk"
How so? Can you point to any incidents of confirmed vaccine reaction that are more serious and greater than the risk of cervical cancer?
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #78
85. Did you miss this?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/19/cbsnews_investigates/main5253431.shtml

(CBS) Amid questions about the safety of the HPV vaccine Gardasil one of the lead researchers for the Merck drug is speaking out about its risks, benefits and aggressive marketing.

Dr. Diane Harper says young girls and their parents should receive more complete warnings before receiving the vaccine to prevent cervical cancer. Dr. Harper helped design and carry out the Phase II and Phase III safety and effectiveness studies to get Gardasil approved, and authored many of the published, scholarly papers about it. She has been a paid speaker and consultant to Merck. It’s highly unusual for a researcher to publicly criticize a medicine or vaccine she helped get approved.

Dr. Harper joins a number of consumer watchdogs, vaccine safety advocates, and parents who question the vaccine’s risk-versus-benefit profile. She says data available for Gardasil shows that it lasts five years; there is no data showing that it remains effective beyond five years.

Read Judicial Watch reports on Gardasil
Dr. LaPook’s Story on HPV
Attkisson's Exclusive Report on Gardasil

This raises questions about the CDC’s recommendation that the series of shots be given to girls as young as 11-years old. “If we vaccinate 11 year olds and the protection doesn’t last... we’ve put them at harm from side effects, small but real, for no benefit,” says Dr. Harper. “The benefit to public health is nothing, there is no reduction in cervical cancers, they are just postponed, unless the protection lasts for at least 15 years, and over 70% of all sexually active females of all ages are vaccinated.” She also says that enough serious side effects have been reported after Gardasil use that the vaccine could prove riskier than the cervical cancer it purports to prevent. Cervical cancer is usually entirely curable when detected early through normal Pap screenings.

Dr. Scott Ratner and his wife, who’s also a physician, expressed similar concerns as Dr. Harper in an interview with CBS News last year. One of their teenage daughters became severely ill after her first dose of Gardasil. Dr. Ratner says she’d have been better off getting cervical cancer than the vaccination. “My daughter went from a varsity lacrosse player at Choate to a chronically ill, steroid-dependent patient with autoimmune myofasciitis. I’ve had to ask myself why I let my eldest of three daughters get an unproven vaccine against a few strains of a nonlethal virus that can be dealt with in more effective ways.”

Merck and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention maintain Gardasil is safe and effective, and that adequate warnings are provided, cautioning about soreness at the injection site and risk of fainting after vaccination. A new study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found while the overall risk of side effects appears to be comparable to other vaccines, Gardasil has a higher incidence of blood clots reported. Merck says it continues to have confidence in Gardasil’s safety profile. Merck also says it’s looking into cases of ALS, commonly known as Lou Gehrig’s Disease, reported after vaccination. ALS is a progressive neurodegenerative disease that attacks motor neurons in the brain and spinal cord. Merck and the CDC say there is currently no evidence that Gardasil caused ALS in the cases reported. Merck is also monitoring the number of deaths reported after Gardasil: at least 32. Merck and CDC says it’s unclear whether the deaths were related to the vaccine, and that just because patients died after the shots doesn’t mean the shots were necessarily to blame.

According to Dr. Harper, assessing the true adverse event risk of Gardasil, and comparing it to the risk of cervical cancer can be tricky and complex. "The number of women who die from cervical cancer in the US every year is small but real. It is small because of the success of the Pap screening program."

"The risks of serious adverse events including death reported after Gardasil use in (the JAMA article by CDC’s Dr. Barbara Slade) were 3.4/100,000 doses distributed. The rate of serious adverse events on par with the death rate of cervical cancer. Gardasil has been associated with at least as many serious adverse events as there are deaths from cervical cancer developing each year. Indeed, the risks of vaccination are underreported in Slade's article, as they are based on a denominator of doses distributed from Merck's warehouse. Up to a third of those doses may be in refrigerators waiting to be dispensed as the autumn onslaught of vaccine messages is sent home to parents the first day of school. Should the denominator in Dr. Slade's work be adjusted to account for this, and then divided by three for the number of women who would receive all three doses, the incidence rate of serious adverse events increases up to five fold. How does a parent value that information," said Harper.

Dr. Harper agrees with Merck and the CDC that Gardasil is safe for most girls and women. But she says the side effects reported so far call for more complete disclosure to patients. She says they should be told that protection from the vaccination might not last long enough to provide a cancer protection benefit, and that its risks - “small but real” - could occur more often than the cervical cancer itself would.

"Parents and women must know that deaths occurred. Not all deaths that have been reported were represented in Dr. Slade's work, one-third of the death reports were unavailable to the CDC, leaving the parents of the deceased teenagers in despair that the CDC is ignoring the very rare but real occurrences that need not have happened if parents were given information stating that there are real, but small risks of death surrounding the administration of Gardasil."

She also worries that Merck’s aggressive marketing of the vaccine may have given women a false sense of security. "The future expectations women hold because they have received free doses of Gardasil purchased by philanthropic foundations, by public health agencies or covered by insurance is the true threat to cervical cancer in the future. Should women stop Pap screening after vaccination, the cervical cancer rate will actually increase per year. Should women believe this is preventive for all cancers - something never stated, but often inferred by many in the population-- a reduction in all health care will compound our current health crisis. Should Gardasil not be effective for more than 15 years, the most costly public health experiment in cancer control will have failed miserably."

CDC continues to recommend Gardasil for girls and young women. The agency says the vaccine’s benefits outweigh its risks and that it is an important tool in fighting a serious cancer.

Dr. Harper says the risk-benefit analysis for Gardasil in other countries may shape up differently than what she believes is true in the US. “Of course, in developing countries where there is no safety Pap screening for women repeatedly over their lifetimes, the risks of serious adverse events may be acceptable as the incidence rate of cervical cancer is five to 12 times higher than in the US, dwarfing the risk of death reported after Gardasil.”

More here: http://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Diseases/hpv.aspx
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
80. How Misinformation Gets the Jump on Facts in the Vaccine Wars
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
81. FDA Says Gardasil May Cause Fainting; The Stats Say It Doesn't
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
82. Study Says Merck's Gardasil Is Safe, Vexing Media and Activists
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. Well, since anecdotes appear to be everything
I've had it. No blindness, brain tooth or hairy uvula yet.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #83
84. Not so. It happened to my cousin's step-mom's ex-husband's great aunt!
She even showed my grandfather's step-niece's ex-boyfriend's sister.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-10 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #82
87. plus one for all three of your links. nt
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