ID Question

[Orrex]

Let me see if I have the essence of ID correct:

Earth is full of complex lifeforms that are impossible without without the intervention of an even more complex (and therefore even more impossible) lifeform.

Seems straightforward enough to me...

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

1. Yep. That sums it up!

Of course, your line of reasoning involves logic ... shame on you.:spank:

[ironman202]

2. well you see,,,

There's an invisible man who lives in the sky and created everything on earth that you see and he's all powerful and all knowing and he has a list of ten things he doesn't want you to do, which is conveniently trannscribed on all the public statuary. And if you do any of the ten things, he's going to send you to a place of burining and fire and torture where he will leave you to suffer and burn forever. But he loves you. He loves you and he needs your money.

[Orrex]

3. Whew!

For a minute there I thought that ID was a religious theory. But now that I hear you explain it, it seems perfectly reasonable.

[Shoeempress]

4. Or, life is so complex, and all that genetic research just makes my

head spin, and I don't really like that logical scientific explanation cuz I don't understand it if it takes more than a paragraph of reading, so it must be magic. Now, what kinda of bugs are they eating on fear factor?

[wli]

5. quick ID summary: "gross violation of Occam's Razor" n/t

[longship]

6. There's a problem with that statement, though.

It's that ID claims scientific basis. If that were true they would posit theories and experiments by which those theories could be evaluated. But they don't do that, because their answer to all questions is, "God did it."

One of the major tenets of ID says that "micro evolution" happens but something they call "macro evolution" does not. If that is the case, ID should be able to answer the following questions:

* What physical process prevents genetic change that gives rise to micro evolution accumulating to the point that it becomes macro evolution?

* What are the physical characteristics of such a barrier?

* What experiments can be used to probe that barrier to determine answers to the first two questions?

* What experimental outcome would falsify the existence of such a barrier?

These kind of questions are absolutely required for every science known to man. If these so-called ID scientists are not asking these questions and are not performing the appropriate experiments, ID cannot be called a science.

[Salviati]

11. Heck, then there's also the resorting to supernatural explainations...

Science is all about finding natural explainations for observable processes, so if in explaining a process observed in nature, you resort to a supernatural explaination, you're no longer doing science.

[WindRavenX]

13. Macro VS micro evolution

...in the scientific community, they are one and the same, but the two phrases are not used- they are coined by IDs in an attempt to discredit evolution.
Seriously, there is no difference at all between the two.

[nashville_brook]

7. i played with this with a picture essay and it seems to me

that teaching :

Earth is full of complex lifeforms that are impossible without without the intervention of an even more complex (and therefore even more impossible) lifeform.

in science class would open big ugly cans of worms for RWers -- it really BEGS the question of empiracisim. darwin has never been taught (to me) as the answer to all of creation. it doesn't take on everything. there's no way to "teach" this essence of ID. it's just a stupid thought. all it takes is just a few minutes of critical examination to refute it. but, by all means -- ask the question, teach kids ALL ABOUT CRITICAL SKILLS and let them slay it. then everyone can learn in their science class that RWxtians are morons (which is bascially how it goes now, b/c even tho there isn't a law, the subject has been "taught" since i was in hs school in the early-80s).

just think about it -- what evidence does a teacher have to back this up? the whole climate of science is empiracism. what teacher of science wouldn't love the opportunity to put this up on the board and and challenge kids to support it. give it their best shot. it's a great lesson in scientific method and logical fallacies.

this "issue" doesn't have the power to escape from it's own wet paper bag.

[phantom power]

8. A creationist would respond by saying...

that God is, in fact, perfect in His simplicity, and so your argument does not apply.

An example: A creationist relative of mine once made this comment: "It's amazing that God managed to create all of life, without knowing any fancy biochemistry, or genetics."

We've all said it: there's just no arguing with these people. Argument only gets you somewhere when basic rules of logic are agreed upon, and that assumption is right out the window.

[OldCurmudgeon]

9. my response: "Yes, isn't it AMAZING..."

A creationist relative of mine once made this comment: "It's amazing that God managed to create all of life, without knowing any fancy biochemistry, or genetics."

Yes, isn't it AMAZING that you worship a diety that is just as stone-ignorant as you are? I mean, you wouldn't want to worship some God that is actually intelligent or anything, would you? That would just make you feel like you do when you talk to a liberal or a democrat, wouldn't it?

[Nihil]

10. ZZZAAAPPPP!!!!

Stone-ignorant I may be but I'm still a f*ing deity and don't you forget it!
:evilgrin:

[seasat]

12. You know you are a science geek when,

I saw "ID question" and wondered if you wanted to know genus and species or if just class was okay. :D

[LastDemocratInSC]

14. When I bend my forearm, it is exactly the right length to reach my mouth

Now, if that isn't an example of Intelligent Design, what is? If my arm was shorter, I wouldn't be able to feed myself. If my arm was longer, I would continuously poke myself in the eye when I tried to eat.

I've also noted that my legs are precisely the correct length to reach the ground when I stand up. Any shorter, I'd be floating; any longer, I'd be dragging around all the time.

The reason our shoes wear out is because they add extra length to our legs, and that causes friction between our bodies above and the ground below. Think about it - when you were a child running around barefooted, did you ever need to get new feet?

Isn't God Great?

[HawkerHurricane]

15. ID Theory in 3 statements

1. We don't know how <that> happened. (Could be true)

2. We'll never know how <that> happened. (Probably not true)

3. Therefore, God made <that> happen. (bad logic, worse theology.)