The monthly "why do people hate vegans" thread.

[livinginphotographs]

I know we've already got one kicked, but I need to share something:

Does anyone ever just get tired, like I do? Sometimes, I see the flamewar threads with the anti-PETA bs and the "Mmmm....steak" posts, and I just feel like giving up trying to explain it. I know education is important, but is it really worth the headaches that come with it? I've said the same things over and over, argued the same things over and over, had numerous messages deleted (probably with due cause, I'll give the mods that), and it keeps coming. Sometimes I'll click on those threads and just feel this sense of hopelessness washing over me, and I can't even bother to respond to it.

Personally, I feel perfectly comfortable knowing that I am personally doing something to save an animal's life simply by not consuming any animal products. To put it bluntly, some people are just going to be pricks no matter what you say to them, so just let them do their thing and not let it bother me. I'm not arguing against direct action, or giving up altogether, but it just seems pointless to argue about it sometimes, especially on DU.

Does anyone else ever feel this way? :shrug:

[shockra]

1. Absolutely.

You feel assaulted when you read some of the ridiculous, sadistic comments.

Sometimes it can make you feel better to stick every jackass you come across on ignore, so you don't have to look at them (for a while, at least). It's not a whole lot of consolation after you've had to read their crap, but it does help some. And besides, that way you can pay attention to the people who really deserve it. There are always some who make good comments that get ignored because everyone's dealing with the assholes who are trying to get attention.

The downside is that one of these guys sometimes says something that you can respond to with some real information, for the benefit of others reading, and you might miss that rare time. But it's more important to worry about yourself. If you're not in the mood, leave it for somebody else to deal with that day.

And yes, some people just can't be educated. Most of the time you're probably better off just not bothering. Unless you can think of some smart remark to post that will make *you* feel better. :)

I can't believe how much the forums transformed when I stuck a whole slew of people on ignore that time. DU was suddenly such a peaceful, intelligent place. That was refreshing! It's worth doing once in a while. :D

[Lorien]

7. I've found that "Ignored" starts a lot of flame wars

I have about 40 people on ignore, but I've noticed that when long, hostile debates start in any thread, the instigator usually seems to be "Ignored". This has brought me to the conclusion that a fair number of people who come to DU are either trolls or are merely miserable bottom dwellers who feel impotent offline and come here to make others feel as miserable and impotent as he/she feels. They LOVE PETA threads or animal torture threads because they know that the people who feel compassion for animals an post in their defense will be hurt by their outrageously cruel comments. Causing pain and gaining attention for themselves is what those posters are all about. It's a shame that it's not a "tombstone" worthy offense.

[yewberry]

2. Yeah, I get tired.

I get sick of it.

I am not generally very harsh or judgemental, and I confess that I do take it hard when "the usual suspects" make broad-brush statements about the crazy AR left/judgemental veg*ns/morality police.

I'm not better than anyone, but I'm trying to do my best to make the best choices I can for me, for animals, for people everywhere & for the environment. I've been at this for a long time and I'm glad that I've done the little bit I have.

I don't want a frigging parade, but it'd be nice if I didn't get called names.

[Gothic Sponge]

3. I don't even bother with the PETA threads anymore.

It's not like we are going to change someones opinion. So, why bother? It would be nice if everyone here supported animal rights, but it's never going to happen. "Liberals" are very diverse in their views. There are people here that love Dennis Kucinich and others that love Joe Lieberman. Unlike republicans we never fall in lockstep. It's good to have diversity, but unfortunately it's also are downfall as a party.

[flvegan]

4. Love/hate relationship with them.

I agree in that I also hate the broad brushing that goes on. I also detest the childish stabs with the "mmm...veal" or "here's a steak" posts that always find their way into a thread.

However, it reminds me that some folks are just that...childish, and just like we all probably did in junior high, folks have that type of feedback as their very best response. Good. If that's the best of what I'm up against, I guffaw in their general direction.

I also have to admit that I will use those opportunities as good practice. Discussion like that, head to head, with some folks here, is a great way for me to stretch muscles not often used. There are some really great, logical thinkers here. Some are excellent at debate (or banter). I learn from their posts, and I learn a great deal from responses made to them, both by us, and others that have knowledge but may not be veggies. I have to admit, I've become better at veg discussion through DU, and although at times it's uncomfortable, frustrating, and at times, downright evil, if that's what I have to endure to grow as a speaker, a voice for the voiceless, if you will...then so be it.

I still can't explain away my now and again infantile remarks and attacks. Nobody is above it. I can't bite my tongue ALL the time. Sometimes you have to walk away for a bit and take a break. I've done that time and again.

[shockra]

12. You might be ADD.

Since you look and act so young, are impulsive, have trouble following directions...etc. People with ADD have a tendency to seem childlike (in both good and bad ways) throughout their whole lives. My sister and I both get taken for much younger all the time. It really bugs her, especially. She's 35 and college-age kids approach her and talk to her as if she's a peer. She was at a baseball game last month and somebody asked her (seriously) if she was old enough to be sitting in the drinking section. She was carded for an R-rated movie when she was 30. It's hard to feel like you're never going to be treated like an adult!

I know ADD is controversial, but there's a Dr. Daniel J. Amen who's done over 40,000 SPECT scans of ADD brains, and there are noticeable differences. Plus scans of them after taking medication, so you can see how they transform. I read his book and it made me feel like a lot less of an anomaly.

Course that is different from the true immaturity we usually see in those threads. I often feel sorry for those people, because they just embarrass themselves.

[livetohike]

5. I feel exactly the same way

:-). You put it into words better than I could.

Vegetarianism has been part of my life for the last 35 years since I was a Freshman in college. Among my friends, it was not an "issue", it is just the way we ate and my room mates and I loved cooking and experimenting with recipes.

I stay out of the PETA threads, etc. I like coming to our group because it is a place we can sanely discuss animal rights issues without hostility.

[expatriot]

6. it's hard, but i like to think the reason why they're so belligerent

...is that they're obviously defensive about something. we are questioning an entire system of "nature" to them that has been deeply indoctrinated into them and yet they get very defensive about it because they know the cruelty and sadism involved and so our very presence is a threat to their "indoctrination of cruelty" because we are living proof that the choices we make as consumers are not predestined by our "omnivorous nature."

So, I think we have a responsibility and duty to the animals to....

1. Keep on keeping on. As much as it may seem like an exercise in futility to defend both animals and those who defend animals in the dace of such contempt and bitterness, we need to keep putting our values out there for them to witness. We need to keep forcing them to question their system.

2. Kill them with kindness. As much as it may be self-therapy to throw their ignorance and maliciousness back at them, we must remember that they are desperately searching for reasons not to listen to us. They are searching for excuses to write us off. If we are uncivil or mean-spirited, they will jump at the chance to add that to the catalog of reasons why not to listen to us.

3. The animal rights movement is, at its core, an evangelical movement. I say this very non-religiously but with obvious religious connotations. For all the actions we take to immediately reduce animals who suffer here and now, it pales against our greater mission to infect the hearts and minds of our fellow humans with the virus of compassion so our actions we take to reduce the immediate suffering of animals can be exponentially multiplied with every "convert" we bring in. This point is more a summary of my first two points. We must keep "spreading the word" and realize that we are "fishers harvesters of men." Okay, so I am taking the evangelical metaphor a bit too far :)

[shockra]

8. Harvesting men.

I usually end up throwing most of them back. :D

[expatriot]

10. :) When I saw your subject line my first thought was: Oh no....

...a "Soylent Green is people!" joke.

[smbolisnch]

9. I think I have learned something here at DU.

I can expect that respect will be given to liberals, feminists, homsexuals, minorities, etc. AS IT SHOULD BE. That is what being a progressive is all about.

If someone makes a very sexist remark, and I call them on it, chances are, they will apologize or recant, whatever. However, animal rights are different.

You just can't expect people to respect you for working to change the very evils that they are responsible for. That is as simply as I can explain it.

I have days where I am ready to go for any AR flamewar, and other days, I just don't want to bother. I just don't. I know exactly how you feel LIP. I think we all do. :hug::grouphug:

[CrispyQ]

11. I feel that way.

I admire those that venture into those mean, hateful threads, but I avoid them. I have enough problems with hating the human collective over animal issues -- I don't need to expose myself to more.

Hopefully, something that some of you say will sink in at some point in time for some of the meaters & they will finally see the light, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I continue to be amazed at how close minded so many liberals are on the topic of animal welfare/rights.

[Piperay]

13. I really don't bother arguing with them

I stay out of the threads entirely unless someone here issues a plea for help. Even then I don't argue I will just put in a word of agreement with the veggie. I have been a vegetarian just about all my life and I learned through long experience that it is not worth the time, effort and aggravation. x(

[peacebuzzard]

14. Sometimes I feel like I am talking to a door

or the walls or to the air when talking about the benefits of not eating flesh.