ive had it up to here with firefox!

[rndmprsn]

and how sad it is for me to say this, but i feel really let down by mozillas firefox browser, at first i loved it...loved tabbed browsing and all the great functionality, extensions, themes etc...but this new version, V1.3 i believe, has way too many bugs and kinks that won't allow it to work right...

*the browser now locks up for 20-30 seconds upon launch...very frustrating!
*will NOT show certain images and java scripting
*crashes at least 3-4 times a day

i find myself using IE more and more just to do simple web browsing...firefox just cannot work with some sites, it just won't.

what started out sooo good...is ending up just another piece of crap software...im really disillusioned and ready to *gasp" switch back to IE.

[RoyGBiv]

1. Small suggestion ...

Judging from what you said about the browser simply not working with some websites, I suspect part of your problem is with those sites, not specifically the browser.

The problem is, in part, that many website operators do not follow HTML, et al standards and instead build their sites for IE specifically. When a standards based browser comes along, yes, it will have problems with non-standard sites, particular with those that use Active-X controls. The latter is one of the main causes of security problems with IE.

The suggestion is simply that you consider your experience is not necessarily indiciative of a problem with the browser.

I installed 1.0.3 the day it was released, and I've had not a single problem with it. In fact, some problems I was having have gone away. As always, I completely removed the previous version and then installed the new one, per the instructions.

[rndmprsn]

2. thanks for that...

and i am aware of the security/java problems @ mozilla too that have been announced this week...

i still think this browser sucks no matter if its from my end or theirs, your explanation notwithstanding (nice mozilla refs on your sig)...i simply cannot use it and that's how i will judge the software.

buggy and freezes not good.

[RoyGBiv]

3. Buggy, etc.

Once again, that's your personal experience and could be related to your web browsing activities or some other issue related to installation or conflicting processes. I'm not going to try to convince you, but I am going to point out problems with your criticisms. Your experience is not in any way typical.

On the subject of security problems, it's notable that these problems were announced by the Mozilla Foundation the day after receiving information of a proof of concept about a possible exploit, *before* any exploits were known to exist. (Said exploits are still not known to exist, suggesting they don't.) A flaw and an exploit are different in that the flaw is something that can be exploited. Mozilla was good enough to announce the problem before the exploit had a chance to take place, a workaround was offered, and a fix is in the works. Contrast this to Microsoft that generally announces its bugs after someone has done harm with them.

The simple truth is that no piece of software in existence is bug free. When you're talking about a piece of software that interacts with something as complex and constantly changing as the Internet, the problems are magnified. IE is certainly no better than FF, which any objective standard will conclude.

But if it works for you, it's no skin off my nose.

FWIW, this is a help and support group, so I tried to offer some advice about your problems with FF. If that's not what you're looking for, I'm not sure what the point here is.

[rndmprsn]

4. thanks for the advice.

didn't mean to offend.

[RoyGBiv]

5. No offense ...

Sorry if that's the way my words came across.

I certainly understand your frustration. Version 1.0.1 irritated me so badly I wanted to find some way to do it physical harm. I've just found that the problems I experience ususally involve something other than the program itself, some weird combination of how my system is configured, the program, other things I have installed, and pure chance.

As I said, if IE works for you, it works for you, and that's really all that matters. Life's too short to be perpetually irritated by computer software, regardless of the reasons for it. Hell, I still use Windoze for some tasks because of problems I have with Linux and my hardware. It's not the fault of Linux, but in the end that doesn't matter. I want it to work now, not be a project I have to brood over indefinitely.

Again, I'm sorry if the way I phrased things came out badly. That wasn't my intent.

[youspeakmylanguage]

6. I concur - the problem is usually with the site...

There may be some bugs in Mozilla or Firefox, but the reason so many sites don't work is NOT the browser's fault. In fact, these browsers were specifically designed to display HTML the correct way.

Ever since I fell in love with web standards my hatred for Microsoft has grown by leaps and bounds. Their sh*tty proprietary garbage has dealt a serious blow to the compatibility of the World Wide Web.

The Internet became such a wondrous and revolutionary creation *at least* for the *developed* world BECAUSE certain standards were established and followed. Microsoft, thinking they owned the world, developed markup that only works and displays correctly in their browser. Simply, it breaks the Web and, to a lesser extent, the Internet as a whole.

Not only does non-standard garbage markup break the web, but it prevents many disabled people from accessing certain sites. It's only a matter of time before lawsuits begin appearing over inaccessible sites.

I have to use IE at work, but at home I use Mozilla. Any site that doesn't work is ignored by me unless I really need something from that site, such as tax forms.

For more on web standards, see Dan's Webtips - he converted me!

http://webtips.dan.info/

[RoyGBiv]

7. Absolutely!

Excellent site. Thanks for that link.

Non-standard markup was/is nothing less than Microsoft's attempt to patent and essentially own the Internet as a whole. It's the same pattern they've used with every damn other thing in their history; it's become so transparant now it's not even hard to notice it.

Thankfully there are people and organizations and even other companies that are not having it. Period. I tried for a long time to make my own website display properly in both IE and standards based browsers. I eventually stopped because it was stupid. Instead I simply advertised that if you use IE, you're not going to get the full impact of the site and may not be able to access certain information, after which I provided links to several, mostly free, standards-based browsers.

[youspeakmylanguage]

8. Whats the URL for your site?

You can send me a private message if it's a professional site and you don't want a freeper lurker calling your boss.