Third Wave type churches' imprecatory prayers, any effect on our country?

[get the red out]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-09-05/inside-sarahs-church

I read this article describing Sarah Palin's "Third Wave" Pentecostal Church and was wondering if you guys thought that the imprecatory prayers these misguided people pray against other, innocent, human beings could have any negative effects and if people of any spiritual belief at all on the side of light should be praying or meditating in any way to counteract this effect, if it exists? I am certain that this one church in Alaska is just an example of many more in this country that are trying to practice some kind of dark influence. I personally pray for the President daily, but was doing so without thinking about negative influences, but just because I want the best for him and our country.

I worry about the President personally as well as politically. Could negative prayers be having any effect in turning our country upside down like it has been? It made me wonder, I do believe that positive prayers do have effect, sending light etc... I didn't know about negative. I was always under the impression that praying for harm to another would rebound on the individual sending out such a negative request to the universe. Is my previous assumption wrong? It appears that terrible things did happen to a young woman that these awful people labeled a "witch" and prayed against.

I would be interested in any input from you guys. This isn't the kind of question I would ask in GD, there I would simply say "what a bunch of hateful nuts" and be done with it, LOL. Anything else wouldn't serve a purpose there.

[Kookaburra]

1. Wishing harm on another --

which is essentially what these people are doing -- will only backfire on you. I don't believe their prayers are effective except in the reaping of what they've sown.

[Matariki]

4. I respectfully disagree

wishing harm on another doesn't automatically 'backfire' on the person. Simple observation of the world proves that. Cruel people have often gotten away with all sorts of mischief in this world. Perhaps it would be nice if nature was so precise - that any attempt to harm another would not only not work but would have automatic consequences for the person doing harm.

It seems to me that if you get enough people praying for anything, it will have an effect on the astral world and consequently on the physical world. Even crazy 'christian' cults. But I also suspect there are enough counter forces in place to even things out.

[Kookaburra]

8. Not automatic --

Not automatic in that it is always instantaneous (although I did witness that once and it even when I knew the man had brought it all on himself, it still hurt my heart to see him suffer). It's not always in the way that is evident to anyone else, but you do reap what you sow, and if you sow hatred and evil and misery, then you will reap it in abundance. That is my belief.

[Why Syzygy]

2. Weird.

There are a couple of sites that debunk the claims:
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/transformations.html
http://www.geocities.com/smithtj.geo/transformations1.html

They produced a video (which the above sites show contains mostly lies)
(they are "Christian" sites):
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/9/8/114332/7479

More:
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/category/mary-glazier/
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/category/mary-glazier/

GTRO, I thought about sending you this link via PM. It gives a good view of one of their major tools of indoctrination.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x217823

With all the other lies, we can't assume the story about the 'witch' is true. Of course curses can hurt someone. If they believe them. It's my belief that they hurt the one who does the curse much more.

[get the red out]

3. I never thought it was real Christianity

Thanks for the links, very informative, and I will be able to use them on people that remain blissfully unaware of this kind of thing in our midst.

I have heard of the "Third Wave" as a growing movement. And a frightening one. My Father is a real Christian, and much as I do not buy into his belief system, he and I have had long discussion on why this in no way represents Christianity at all.

This is an evil thing, either way. There is also the possibility that what they can't get through the supernatural they may attempt the old fashioned violent way, as we see in Muslim extremism (which is a terrible aberration of that religion).

But as someone who believes in "real" prayer, as something that works through our connection to the universe, the thought did cross my mind that it might be possible to have a negative occur in the same way. I don't want to come off too loony :crazy: But it crossed my mind so I thought I would tap you guys for knowledge.

[NuttyFluffers]

5. for such things, you can ask and receive, but for a cost...

they are so filled with hate they are willing to pay the costs. but the costs merely refuel their hate and delusional self-victimization, which spurs them to more hate and wishing ill, which comes with a cost -- and thus we see a sickening feedback loop. they will vibrate themselves into a living hell of seething hate and torment.

these are the pockets of resolving kharma we were told about. nothing can be done to save these people directly by our lonesome. this is a job for real spiritual healing professionals. our best bet is to shield and ground ourselves and our loved ones while promoting light and love to those who are willing to be receive.

now on earth is most definitely not the time to promote negative prayers/intentions into the universe. yes, they will have some effect (but a bit more muted than before), but the vibrational levels will be most unpleasant on the return stroke -- the benefits won't outweigh the costs.

promote positivity, let not these crazed people preoccupy your mental time, for they feed and get stronger with it. bring forth love to all those who are willing and receptive; build your environment of nourishing light and let it spread forth encouraging others to do the same.

[Shallah Kali]

6. My take

Focusing negativity effects the world, the ones it is directed at and the sender. How much effect it has varies depending on variables like how sensitive psycically the sender and target are and how focused they are. Think of being around one angry person vs. a whole angry group like these townhall astroturf events. It must feel like standing in front of a sandblaster to anyone the least bit empathic :hides: While I doubt these jerks can cause cancer I believe any tiny bit of negativity is just that much of a barrier to health. In the end it is like flinging dirt. It makes a mess of everything and some always gets on the thrower. Better to be nice and send good vibes instead so you get a coating of good stuff!

Frankly I am more concerned about groups we don't know about who are quietly focusing negative intentions on our government and other people & things they don't care for. I am a dabbler compared to good stuff some people I know can do so I figure there are people with bad intentions with the same skills going at it too. Also looking into certain politician's eyes i see things I really don't want to see :hides: Makes me glad there are good guys out there on both physical and metaphysical levels since it takes so long for harm to rebound on the perpetrators!

I figure the best thing I can do to help is get and keep myself as healthy as possible on all levels so I can be one more source of good vibes in the world, one more monkey in the hundreth monkey effect sort of thing.. secondly I choose to ally with beings of like like Kali and Archangel Michael and ask and give permission for them to transmute any harmful energies and safely corral any harmful entities at work. finally when i feel strong I send good energy out there ot neutralize bad vibes myself, do what I can to clean up icky or worse areas i come across personally, and when in doubt of my ability I do not tackle anything I think is too difficult a job.

[get the red out]

7. I recalled this prayer study

http://www.spindriftresearch.org/

These gentlemen did a study on prayer that was met with terrible anger from religious bodies. The web site doesn't spell out what I have heard Bill Sweet, the surviving memeber of the team, say in interviews, which was that he believed prayers against them from some religious groups played a part in suicides of the father and son team that he worked with on the research.

Their research is quite fascinating and shows the various degrees of effectiveness of different kinds of (positive) prayer.

This research came to mind when I was reading about the "Third Wave" and their terrible use of prayer. Whether their hateful prayers have any effect or not, it is still a nasty business.

[Oak2004]

9. I would imagine it does have an effect, though not one that can't be countered

The difference between prayer and magick is largely semantic, and few knowledgeable persons would doubt that a group of practitioners of evil magick, directing it at an individual, would have an effect.

There are mitigating factors here, though. One is that many of the practitioners of this hate aren't very good at practicing their brand of Black Magick For Jesus ^TM -- they don't get anything even approaching training in focusing the will, after all, and are pretty much limited to whatever power they can generate from raw, undisciplined hate. Secondly, there are usually no ties between themselves and the objects of their hate (an unfortunate exception being former members). Thirdly, they lack the skills possessed by competent evil magicians to more or less "protect" themselves (short-term, anyway) from blowback from their misdeeds.

I wouldn't worry too much about them managing to kill the president. I would be concerned about what they can do to the people they actually have ties to.