I saw Avatar, and went with low expectations. (No spoilers but discuss basic storyline)

[Dover]

I figured the special effects would be great, but at the expense of a strong story and/or acting/dialogue. Or at least that's how I felt about James Cameron's earlier film, Titanic.
But that hardly stopped me and millions of others from plunking down our money for a boarding ticket onto the great ship and the altered reality he presented.

And some might find the same is true in this epic adventure, but I can't think of one moment when I was not fully engaged, even if I had some sense from the get-go about where the plot was heading. It's unfortunate I was unable to view it in 3D, as I think I might have actually felt transported.

And, astrologically speaking, I can't help but find the timing of this release fascinating... coming out during the Mars retrograde (with a heavy Saturn/Pluto theme running in the background). The story challenges the martian war themes and patriarchal undeveloped masculine archetype that our society lives by. It features a main character who is a disabled marine...a beautiful metaphor for a Mars retrograde don't you think? He is out of action due to this disability, but is able to morph/transcend this condition if he joins a primarily matriarchal indigenous society who lives at one with nature on a planet that his own people (us) are trying to exploit for its natural resources. The marine's assignment - to infiltrate the tribe in order to gain their trust - causes a split in his reality with one foot in each world.

One of the primary themes is about what it is to become a 'man'.
There are no real rites of passage for young men in our culture, and so the military has stepped in and offered their version. But what IS a man?
Another great martian theme.

In the U.S. astrological chart, the natal progressed Mars has also turned retrograde and it will last many years (until the 2080's). So although the transiting Mars retrogrades last a relatively short time (it retrogrades about every two years and this current one will end in mid-March), our country's martian tendencies and how we each integrate the masculine energies are up for review for the duration of most of our collective lives.


Added note:
There is a line in the movie about the Great Mother not taking sides...but then it seems she does have her favorites....lol. Or maybe she likes to be asked nicely.

[I Have A Dream]

1. I also think that it is a great movie.

I also would have loved to have seen it in 3D. The special effects were amazing.

I loved that they made the female characters just as strong as the male characters. I won't say anything more just in case I inadverently say too much. :)

:thumbsup:

[Dover]

2. I'm going to look around for a 3D theater and see it again.

I think it would be worth it.


It's funny that there seems to be similar threads about matriarchal or the 'wise feminine' running through many other movies as well. I haven't seen it yet (although I've seen enough snippets in the media that I feel like I've seen it) but the comedy titled, It's Complicated, seems to celebrate the older woman. And Streep has been wonderful in that role in many of her recent films, always with a light touch.
I laughed out loud when Letterman, who was interviewing Baldwin (who's in the film) and just gushing about how 'satisfying' he found the film, complained that one critic had referred to the movie as a 'chic flick'. He said, (paraphrased) "Now what does that say about me that I enjoyed this film so much? I think it's a film for everyone". Of course the story of a guy leaving his wife for a younger woman and then opting back into his relationship with his older wife and kids, is probably very close to home for Letterman....lol!

Another local reviewer (a WOMAN) said of that film, it's "a wish-fulfillment fantasy for women of a certain age".

Hmmph!
I guess the wise and sexy older female archetype, or the goddesses and 'cougars' of the world, are a bit threatening to some women too.

Anyway, the feminine as well as the masculine archetypes seem to
be shifting or are being re-examined.
Maybe it's just a generational thing (babyboomers coming of age) but
I think that is symptomatic of a broader shift or level of integration.

Not to be outdone...lol...PBS ran a program about a matriarchal society of apes called Bonobos. And the reason they are so peace loving?
According to observers, sex among them is as casual and common as a handshake, partners are NOT monogamous, and their habitat is abundant with food. Also the females aren't territorial but always invite their neighbors to share their meals and socialize. Hard to work up any tensions!

[yellerpup]

18. The portrayal of females also grabbed my attention

I loved it that, as you say, "the female characters (were) just as strong as the male characters," AND that it was no big deal.

[get the red out]

3. Thanks for your take on this movie

I have seen the ads, seen reviews, and still had seen NOTHING until reading this that actually told me what the movie was about! This sounds like a very positive story line. In fact, it is something I think about constantly, how our hyped up patriarchy has messed up our whole human society.

[Kind of Blue]

4. Thanks for the review! Came so close to seeing

Avatar last night but the showing times were just too late and it's almost 3 hours long. Planning it for the weekend and can't wait.

One of the main reason for wanting to see it, besides being a sci-fi buff, is that I've always been fascinated since reading Michael Newton's "Journey of Souls," of his concept of the intelligence/personality that already exists in the body before the spirit enters sometimes before or after birth and the integration of the two, and that a portion of the soul remains on the other side. So I've been mulling over that our bodies as Avatars and not just empty shells until we fill it. Kind of creepy, huh?

Seems the movie touches on this aspect of Newton's notion. And he mentions this theory again in the interviews that Rumpel was so kind enough to link us to.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=245x107852
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QDT58Q6Zxo

Just throwing some "crazy" thoughts out there :)

[I Have A Dream]

5. Very interesting thoughts, Blue.

You made me think of the book "The Host" by Stephanie Meyer. I know that a lot of people don't like her work, but this particular book really made me think about the ethics involved in taking over another body. How many of our problems with our incarnations are due to our willful souls vs. that part of "us" that was here before our souls entered? I also felt a bit uncomfortable about taking over control of the body while I was reading "Journey of Souls".

I love your "crazy" thoughts. :)

[Kind of Blue]

6. Wow, I just looked her up. She's the Twilight

lady! How could I not know? My stepdaughter and friends have chosen "teams," and will marry those boys :rofl:

The book is going right on to my reading list. Thanks IHAD!

It's nice to have a place to put crazy thoughts Get some good feedback :)

[Dover]

8. Thanks for mentioning those two authors. Wasn't familiar with either one.

I admit that I've gone out of my way to navigate around the whole Twilight phenomenon. Interesting premise about intelligence already existing in the body prior to the soul's entrance. I wonder if that is just Newton's theory or if he is drawing on scripture or some other source?

In the film, as best I could understand the 'science' of embodying another,
it had to do with combining their dna and then 'growing' the body in a lab
incubator sort of thing. So they were kind of a hybrid of the two races.

[I Have A Dream]

10. Dover, are you saying that you're not familiar with the book "Journey of Souls"?

I think that I'd have to consider it the most important book that I ever read in reference to feeling as though I understand how the universe works in reference to humanity. While conducting hypnotherapy, Dr. Newton encountered cases where people could remember how it was between incarnations. What he said came from that material.

[Dover]

11. I guess that book just fell through the cracks. I'll pick up a copy and give it a read.

I believe there are some people who have 'remembered' other lives while
in a full waking state too, though had never heard of memories between incarnations. Fascinating!

[I Have A Dream]

12. A few years ago, we had a book read of that book in the group.

That's how I first found out about it.

[I Have A Dream]

13. A couple of weeks ago, rumpel posted a thread with some videos of Dr. Newton.

Here's a link to the thread, in case you want to listen to what he has to say:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=245&topic_id=107852&mesg_id=107852

[Dover]

16. Thanks. I usually have to pass on watching videos.

Due to the slowness of dialup I limit them to 3 minutes in length or less.
I'll see if I can download them in a reasonable length of time.

[get the red out]

14. Newton regresses people into past lives

I love his work. He is quite thorough in his studies of the information gleaned from people he has regressed. I always find it amazing the good that regression into past lives does for people suffering from various problems that aren't touched by any present day therapy. I went through a period where i was absolutely drawn to read anything I could find about reincarnation and found his work, it helped explain a lot to me.

Twilight, as I understand it, is a misogynist's dream. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole or the work of any writer who would make young women characters so submissive and helpless as that author. I think I read she is extremely religious, which would explain the horrible patriarchy and miserably submissive females.

[I Have A Dream]

15. Personally, I think that his most interesting work is his work BETWEEN lives.

Absolutely fascinating stuff.

I read all of the Twilight books and "The Host". My own personal take on them is very different. (Just my opinion from this point on...) I am a staunch feminist, and I didn't personally find the handling of the female characters to be at all misogynistic. I personally feel that the characters are very strong women. I have read what people have said about Stephanie Meyer's religious views being incorporated into the works, but I can honestly say that I just don't see it. Her characters by and large don't have sex in the books, but I didn't feel as though this was to keep her female characters "pure". None of the characters in the book seemed to feel that females staying "pure" was important except for the father of the main character in the Twilight series, and I felt that this was because he felt that his daughter was too young for that step. (He was a rather inexperienced father also, and could be heavy-handed due to his inexperience.) The main character didn't care at all what her father thought about this issue; she made her own decisions. She was strong and independent. She made some mistakes along the way, but that's what young people do. However, I didn't feel as though she was put down as a female for having made these mistakes.

Anyway, the book that I was talking about was "The Host", which is not part of the Twilight series. I read "The Host" before I read the other books. I understand that others may disagree with my take on her writing and her intentions. :)

[Dover]

19. Thought you might find this interesting...

I was reading about the pineal gland, often referred to as the Third Eye in esoteric/spiritual circles:


Interestingly, there is a correlation between the soul’s emergence in various spiritual traditions and pineal formation. Specifically, the gland first appears in the fetus 49 days after conception. This is the time Tibetan Buddhists believe it takes after death for the soul to finish its sojourn and reincarnate into the next body. This period also approximates the 40 days espoused by early Christians, such as St. Augustine, that it takes for the soul to enter the fetus.

http://www.healingtherapies.info/PinealGland1.htm

[get the red out]

22. His between the lives stuff set me free

Newton's work and the books of Brian Weiss were among the sources of information that set me free from a mental bondage that I had never in my life been able to shake up to that point. It was the bondage of feeling I was supposed to believe in the spiritual in a way that I found repulsive, and I had long been in denial about this. Brian Weiss found such similar between the lives information, as I read it, to Newton and others that it really just opened doors in my consciousness and took a huge weight off my back. I felt like I had keyed into something I couldn't put words to all my life that made me unable to accept what I had been told without question.

The freedom in reading these works was beyond what I can express. I went on to read anything I could that told the truth about how the unquestionable spiritual books of my forebears really came into being and found so much relief that what I had always been told was inaccurate that I stopped feeling the guilt that I had carried for decades over the subject and let go of the horrific fear that other people had to be right and I had to be wrong all the time. Now I still have anger, but it is somewhat reduced.

The Twilight thing is multifaceted for me, hearing of the very story-line of the books makes me incredibly agitated. When I found out the religion of the author and read other's comments about the misogyny it made sense. Everyone is entitled their take. I personally just can't wait for it to all go away and for people to find another fad.

[I Have A Dream]

25. I've been exactly where you were, gtro.

I finally got to the point where I literally decided that I was willing to go to hell before I would allow the fear of God to control my life. That opened everything for me. I never believed that God (Source in my belief system) wanted us to fear it. I felt that this was used by humanity and religion to control us rather than what Source wanted. Now I (with much help from my higher self and my guides), rather than religion, decide what is good for me spiritually. Until I made that conscious decision, I felt as though I was dying inside -- withering up and parched. My soul felt as though it was writhing in agony. :(

When I was reading "Journey of Souls", it was like I was in a candy store and there were no calories! :D

I love learning the mysteries of the Universe! I'm not at all drawn to the dark stuff though.

[get the red out]

26. Yes, what you said IHAD!

That is a very good description of my spiritual evolution also. And it is the positive that attracts me also (which is why the TV news has been repelling me of late, I believe). The lessening of fear of "God" was like a dark cloud over my heart dissipating and I was able to continue to learn after that because I had hit a wall spiritually.

Candy store with no calories, EXACTLY! LOL! And all dark CHOCOLATE!

[I Have A Dream]

29. I suspect that our spiritual paths have been quite similar, gtro.

:)

[Cleita]

7. I haven't seen the movie and probably won't until it comes out on DVD.

However, I was listening to people discussing it on the radio and although they loved the movie and the message, they were dismayed that McDonald's was sponsoring it and what McDonald's represents in contrast to the message in the movie. Thanks for an interesting post.

[Dover]

Ewwwww.... that leaves a bad taste in my mouth...literally!

I read something about the astronomical cost of making the film, and I don't know what 'green' or benign corporations or groups might have had the funds to bankroll it. Don't know if Cameron tried to attract alternative backers.

But I think most people are smart enough not to confuse the two messages of film and backer. And I think the film's message carries MUCH more weight. So I suppose one could get some satisfaction in the irony that McDonalds has backed a movie that undermines its corporate agenda. Justice?

If you do watch the film I'd highly recommend viewing it on the BIG screen. It's just one of those movies where it should be a requirement, to get the full effect, imo. And better yet, a 3D theater.

[Dover]

9. oops...dupe post..n/t

[rosesaylavee]

17. I saw it the day after Christmas in 3 D

And enjoyed it a lot. Would go see it again if I had the cash. Not to spoil it for anyone... but I did enjoy the role the natural world played... enjoyed how connected they were and how that connection played a role in their survival. Some people saw the Iraq conflict depicted here... I saw Climate Change. So, I guess you see what you want to see.

[katty]

20. saw it/3D - very impressive journey on many levels even

though the story "appears" at times to be 'john smith meets pocahontas' - a technical masterpiece.

[katty]

21. concur-the release time of this film & u.s. mars retro is just

too perfect.

[Silver Gaia]

23. My daughter and I went to see 'Avatar' on Monday at the IMAX in 3D .

Wow. Just wow.

Yes, see it in 3D, if you can! This is not an 'in your face' 3D experience -- no stuff coming at you to freak you out, etc. What it IS in 3D is an incredibly immersive sensory feast. You will feel you are truly THERE. It is absolutely visually stunning. The merging of art and technology in this film is astounding, IMO.

There is something about 3D, I think (and especially when used as Cameron did), that affects you differently in the way the brain processes the image, as opposed to a 2D image. This is just my personal observation. I was deeply affected, and couldn't get these PEOPLE out of my mind. They were there with me as I dozed off to sleep that night, as if they really were people I'd met and shared time with. Interesting experience.

The story is very archetypal -- a mythic fairy tale, in a sense. I've seen the plot criticized as derivative, but I don't think that's a detriment at all. It's a plus. Archetypes are like that, and while it may draw from many known sources, it is unique in the way it puts all these pieces together. You don't want to think too deeply about this story, you want to FEEL it deeply. Approach it from that standpoint, and you'll love it, I think. It is politically very much to the left -- anti-imperialism, pro-environment, and it is very spiritual. I think most ASAH'rs will love it! :)

Also... I have a thought about your "Added note," Dover, but I can't post it without posting spoilage, so I won't. ;) For now, anyhow.

[Dover]

24. Eloquently expressed Silver Gaia! Yes that was what I imagined...

that the 3D would be like a sensory immersion. And love what you said about archetypes!

It's hard not to discuss it, isn't it? lol! I'm willing to wait another week or so for folks to get a chance to see it.
I'm guessing your withheld comment has something to do with the rest of that line in the film I referred to in my 'added note' about balance. ;)

[OneGrassRoot]

27. Darn, it's sold out here completely through next week!

I just checked. I thought it would be a fun thing to do this weekend for a change.

With the buzz going around about this movie, it seems destined to be the biggest seller of all time...thus far.

I'm not reading others' thoughts beyond the OP; I want to be surprised.

Happy New Year's Eve, Everyone!

:hi:

:grouphug:

[Dover]

30. I hope you'll get a chance to see it soon OGR.

I wouldn't worry about reading the other posts. They have all been very careful not to reveal anything that would spoil it for those who haven't seen it. My OP has the most information and you've already read that.

[Silver Gaia]

32. I think you'll love it, OGR. :)

I still want to take my hubby to see it. I think we're gonna try to do that on a smaller (and less expensive) screen than the IMAX. It's playing in IMAX 3D, 'regular' digital 3D, and 2D. There's a nice theater near us that's playing the digital 3D format, so I think we'll try to get tickets there soon.

It is selling out fast, though! I've read it's breaking records for IMAX. There were people in line at the IMAX when I was there who were trying to get tickets weeks in advance, and running into the 'no good seats left' problem. You get to pick your seat at the IMAX, rather than first-come-first-served like most theaters. I'm hoping I can buy tickets in advance to the smaller theater and just get there and get in line really early.

Good luck getting your tickets! Hope you get to see it soon!

And I agree with Dover -- I think you cold go ahead and read the comments here. We've tried really hard to be spoiler-free. :)

[davsand]

28. We saw it in 3D the weekend it came out.

Visually it is stunning. I could go on and on about how amazing it is and still not do it justice. This is the one in a 1000 films that simply must be seen on the big screen.

I'm maybe gonna annoy a couple of folks with this comment, but I honestly feel that had Cameron had some help writing the script the film could have run a lot shorter and he would have maybe not had to spend quite so much. As it was, he needed all that time to establish a feeling for all the characters and the setting.

The film really did present a lot of ideas that tend to scare the daylights outta the fundy types. The entire belief system of the natives is so contrary to the straight line "Jesus is coming and he is pissed" doctrine that so many of them love to throw out to scare each other into submission. On a personal level, I totally could ID with the natives and actually do see a lot of what they were teaching here in this forum.

What Cameron put out is not anything "new, really," but it is the first time I can recall that anybody spent that much money to do it.


Laura

PS, I worked HARD not to give anything away because I really hope that you all can and will find a way to see it on the big screen. This is a visual transformation--much like an afternoon in a good museum can be.

[Dover]

I was surprised that despite its length it just sped by and was over before I knew it.

Like I said, I can't think of one moment when I wasn't engaged.
However, time IS money, so perhaps there was some way to write it
that would have been more efficient, but I certainly don't know how.
It's similar to Lord Of The Rings in its epic qualities, but did not have the advantage of being broken down into chapters/books with a separate film for each.

As for the message, I agree. Cameron certainly did commit himself wholeheartedly to getting it out there.

[Dover]

31. I was surprised that despite its length it just sped by and was over before I knew it.

Like I said, I can't think of one moment when I wasn't engaged.
However, time IS money, so perhaps there was some way to write it
that would have been more efficient, but I certainly don't know how.
It's similar to Lord Of The Rings in its epic qualities, but did not have the advantage of being broken down into chapters/books with a separate film for each.

As for the message, I agree. Cameron certainly did commit himself wholeheartedly to getting it out there.

[glowing]

33. My son's Grandmother took him.. he's 5.. we were worried he'd get bored

or not like the glasses or it may have been to adult.. but they felt it was fine and he was on the edge of his seat.. he wants us to go take him again... he loved it.

[Sienna86]

34. Saw Avatar in 3-D

Wow! The visual effects blew me away. As someone said, I felt like I was immersed in an alternative universe. So beautiful. I came away with many thoughts, but not wanting to spoil it, will only add this: it made want to go outside and lay on the grass to connect with Mother Earth. Unfortuntely I'd freeze right now in the cold and snow. Very powerful message for me.