Obama's natal Sun/Neptune Square

[Dover]

I ran across this piece that concentrates on the Sun/Neptune square aspect in Obama's natal chart.
It's a combination that is a bit worrisome for me on many levels. Neptunian energies can bring lofty idealism and vision (especially so in the 9th house) as well as self deception or deception of or by others. It's a very 'high octave' planet, so to speak, and difficult to ground. Anyway, I found this piece interesting not just as an examination of our potential new 'commander in chief', but as a good read for anyone who has a Sun/Neptune connection in their natal charts, or are experiencing it by transit. I could write all day about Neptune and only scratch the surface. Neptune especially defies simple concrete definitions. It would be like trying to hold water in one's hand. But there are some wonderful books out there, and if you are experiencing Neptune by transit (especially to your Sun), or have that natal configuration, you might find Marilyn Waram's book titled, The Book Of Neptune, very very helpful (here's her website too, http://www.astrologyguild.com/healing2.htm ) , or Liz Greene's book, Astrological Neptune And The Quest For Redemption. You don't have to be an astrologer or know that terminology to read and understand these books.

I think this is a realistic assessment, though for many who have put Obama on a high pedestal, it may seem to be unflattering or even a bit negative. But I think those who are familiar with this energy either through transit or natally, will be able to identify. And if our leaders are a reflection of the people they lead, a receiver of our projections, then we can learn about ourselves as a national body through our leaders' triumphs and failings, their passions and their visions, in their way of perceiving and participating in the world. Perhaps, in some ways, we are all reaching to more fully integrate Neptunian energies, it's gifts and pitfalls, through Obama.

http://astrobarry.com/2008/jul2008.php

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And this link to Obama's psychological chart reading by Liz Greene has already been posted in this forum, but I thought I'd make it easy to access it again if you want a refresher or haven't yet read it. I've been thinking it might be interesting to go back and read her analysis of George Bush. I recall thinking at the time I read it years ago that it was far too kind and forgiving, based on what I knew of the man.

http://www.astro.com/samples/pdf/ph3e.pdf

[I Have A Dream]

1. Thanks for posting this, Dover.

For some reason, I feel a real bond with Neptune. Luckily, most of the Neptune aspects in my chart are soft, so maybe that explains it. (Now, Uranus and even Pluto a bit are a different story altogether. :scared: Pluto will be going over my Capricorn stellium in the not-so-distant future, so that should be interesting...)

I'm going to look into the books that you mentioned.

It is interesting that different people see Obama so differently. (I guess the same could be said for any politician, but it seems even more so with him.) I look forward to seeing what his legacy actually ends up being. So many of us are hoping that he'll be able to single-handedly return the United States to what it was before Reagan/Bush/? (etc.) took office. Are we expecting too much from a mere mortal, even if his intentions are for the highest good of all? Are we setting him up to disappoint us? I just ask that the Universe help us via grace -- because, as a people, I really don't think that we Americans have done anything to deserve to be pulled out of this deep ditch into which we've dug ourselves. (I'm not talking about individual people.)

Thanks again, Dover. As usual, you've made me think even when my mind wants to be lazy. :)

[Why Syzygy]

2. That's interesting ..

I feel some affinity for Neptune also, which is a bit odd since I am such an astrology novice.
Mythology, though, is near and dear. I am a water baby, so that may be part of it.

[Dover]

3. One of the things I like about the way Marilyn Waram talks about Neptune's

influence is her description of the various ways we respond to it, and at different ages, depending on where we are with that particular energy in our own development. If we still require White Knights to save us, then we will experience that cultural mythology from all its angles. Ultimately
we will need to discover the Divine within ourselves and take responsibility for our lives and overcoming fears and blockages. I also like that Waram provides some tools in order to do that. To help us through the Neptunian games and fog. And she provides many examples of those games so we can better recognize our own.

Of course others can inspire us and guide us in our pursuits and many Neptunian types have done exactly that! Just beware of setting up savior/victim role that is bound to disappoint. It can put us in the role of helpless damsel while secretly wanting to place the responsibility on others. The savior will often buy into the game because being put on a pedestal is heady stuff that feeds one's ego. And if we are disappointed in their performance, then it's their fault rather than our own. Either way they are responsible for our misery or our ecstasy neither of which represents the truth or what's real.

Dream, I'm guessing if you feel an affinity to Neptune it's not in a challenging position in your chart and more easily works WITH the grounding energies of you Capricorn planets, perhaps? Neptune and Saturn (Cap) energies working in cooperation can bring that Divine energy into manifestation with much more ease. A potter as her wheel.

When these two planets are at odds, Neptune undermines, errodes and eventually reveals the illusion of the Saturnian or ego 'reality' that we've so carefully built to keep us 'safe' and 'secure' and the collective consensus of what that reality is that we've committed ourselves to upholding. Hence the DISillusionment associated with Neptune.

I do hope that no one expects or hopes that we will go 'back' to who we were before the Bush reign
or whatever marker is significant as a point of change. While this change has not been fun or easy and we can't know its significance fully while in its midst, it has been a catalyst for moving us beyond our fears and closer to discovering and manifesting our own divinity as represented by Neptune. We cannot move forward if we are looking backward (which was the lesson of Lot's wife who turned to a pillar of salt & essentially rendered inert, symbolically speaking). We must trust our process and the guidance we receive without fear or getting stuck in the past. It comes down to a test of our faith when we can't know the outcome or control events. And by continuing in mourning or being nostalgic for some part of our lives that has died we are also not acknowledging the distance we've actually traveled and the work we've done or finding acceptance in the present. So maybe we all need to examine where we are individually (not where the polls and headlines tell us we are), in our development. Have we grown? Are we more, rather than less in touch with that divine spark? Do we really want to be the person we were a decade or three ago? Have we learned to take more responsibility for our lives?

I know for myself that I've grown a great deal in consciousness in the last decade. So much has
awakened that was asleep and dormant. So what, really, would I be mourning the loss of?
I wouldn't WANT to go back, anymore than I'd wish myself back in high school. I've earned my stripes dammit! And I like and accept where I am as I continue to move closer to that divine in me.
The whole world could fall apart tomorrow and could not take that away from me.

I would recommend the book to everyone, but in terms of natal emphasis particularly to anyone with strong Neptunian aspects or angles in their chart, or those with an emphasis in the Pisces/Virgo signs, or 6th/12th houses.
Perhaps transits from Neptune are more 'difficult' than living with natal aspects only because we've had all our lives to acclimate to the natal energy or planetary 'actors' in our repertoire, where as transits are like a crash course in improvisation ...lol!



Pillars of Salt ---------------

[I Have A Dream]

4. Very good point, Dover, about not actually going back to what we were before.

I certainly never saw what we had prior to the Bush regime as being even close to what we ultimately should be as an evolved, enlightened society. However, I at least felt as though we were slowly moving forward, making progress incrementally in a way that I no longer see happening in our society. However, maybe the time for incremental change is over. I just wish that I had faith that we were moving in the right direction.

I don't personally feel as though going through the last 8 years has been a catalyst for the awakening or growth of my spirituality; I feel as though I was already on that path. However, who knows? Maybe I would have gotten complacent if things had gotten too comfortable. It wouldn't be the first time that that's happened.

Is anyone else just feeling really tired lately? :shrug: I wish that I were as optimistic and energetic as you are, Dover. :hug:

[Dover]

5. Heck, even the Dalai Lama is exhausted!

If you saw my post on that below, he was hospitalized apparently for exhaustion.
These are definitely trying times, but I really don't think the 'incremental'
development was nearly as effective as being slammed up against the wall!
I trust we are getting the proper medicine for what ails us.
And so many beyond our shores are suffering far greater trauma than anything we
have suffered in this country, even on our worst day.
We've really been so buffered from the turmoil and realities
of the world, so finally getting real with it and letting it in is bound to be
very disturbing. Expanding our awareness of ourselves in relationship to the rest
of the world certainly seems to be part of this country's journey.

At any rate, we humans have a tendency to be like Hobbits and once we have our tea cakes
and our warm fire, we settle in for a long winter's nap. It can take a lot to awaken
from that. Not that we need to be in our pain bodies to feel alive, but we just get
stuck in our patterns, and in our egoic security issues and don't rise to challenge ourselves
or allow others to challenge us. Neptunian types particularly may not respond well to such a shattering awakening as we've gotten for they like those naps and love to dream.
So long as nothing is 'wrong' with our cherished little lives and hobbit holes,
what else could one want? Isn't this what we all want? La-de-da.
Surely the Divine will do all the heavy lifting, so long as we sit and behave ourselves and avoid all that bad stuff 'out there'.
Now we are kinda back to the savior/victim game again, in our relationship to the Divine.
We put God way up there on a pedestal (don't want to get too intimate and real), and be devoted
selfless and helpless servants. But beneath our apparently docile, peaceloving sheepskin is a very
demanding voice that says to the Divine, "We'll sit here and be 'good', but you must promise not to
rock our boat or disappoint us...'kay? We expect to be saved from pain and hardship and fear."


Reminds me of that old joke about the flood (how very Neptunian)

There was a huge flood in a village.

One man said to everyone as they evacuated, "I'll stay! God will save me!"

The flood got higher and a boat came, and the man in it said "Come on mate, get in!"

"No" replied the man. "God will save me!"

The flood got very high now and the man had to stand on the roof of his house.

A helicopter soon came and the man offered him help. "No, God will save me!" he said.

Eventually the man drowned.

He arrived at the gates of heaven and he said to God, "Why didn't you save me?"

God replied, "For goodness sake! I sent a boat and a helicopter. What more do you want!"


When I think of pure unadulterated Neptunian energy, I don't think of struggle.
I think of floating along a river. Some of the Pisces people I have known really got my goat at first because everything about them seemed to flow, everything seemed so easy. Actually I was a
little jealous because I was working so hard and they were not even breaking a sweat.
They were, at least in part, in that cosmic stream that we'd all like to enter into. But how?

I picture the Neptunian journey, or more broadly speaking, our spiritual journey, like a trip down
a river in a canoe. Ultimately we are the oarsman...we need to be fully alert and present for
sublte shifts in current, obstructions, changes in weather, rapids up ahead, while also being witness to the beauty of which we are a part. Sometimes we can kick back and ride a gentle current and sometimes we have to paddle to the point of exhaustion to make it through a tight spot.
And we are so present that fear does not exist. The only thing that is real is in that moment.
But one thing is a given. We have to take up the paddle and launch the boat if we want the rewards it brings. And sitting on the sidelines may be 'safer' but the scenery won't change. It is, in essense, the story of Bilbo Baggins and his search for the ring. But it is really about the journey.


Marilyn Waram says this in her section on attachments (to the old or to our Hobbit selves):

As long as we perceive ourselves to be creatures of flesh and blood, we tie ourselves down
with attachments. Some attachments are to images we hold of ourselves, about others, about the
nature of reality. Every time we wish to change, we have to let go of one or more of these
attachments. We have to make a new definition to suit our new understanding. This involves a
challenge to our established basic perception of the world and that process is very threatening.
It is the effort involved in overcoming fear and allowing the challenge to occur that is part
of our earthly experience. Neptunian energy can only flow without effort when there is no fear,
no resistance, no regret, no dishonesty. There has to be perfect openness and receptivity.

Many people do not understand this. They expect the ease and harmony without realizing that it
only comes when we transcend our very human habits. They may be so caught up in the wonderful
vision of Neptune that they cannot live comfortably with the reality of the world. Unwilling to
live in the world as we know it, unaware that they have to change themselves to make their world
better they block it out of their minds and create one that is more to their liking. There is
a strong element of self-protection involved in this process. Many Neptunians subtley ask those
around them to join in their pretend world, or at least to leave them with their illusions.

...snip...

Ask yourself if you want to change. Are you willing to settle for the fraudulent luxury of
pretense? Are you willing to face the pain of knowing you are wasting years on a defense mechanism
rather than growing in skill and strength? Are you willing to see that you make this increasingly
difficult for yourself? Are you willing to face the initial pain of self-confrontation, of knowing and accepting yourself AS YOU ARE, rather than pampering yourself with comforting images?

The pain incidentally, will not last long: it will only be experienced while your carefully
cultivated images are in the death throes. When it is all over, you will feel very clear and clean
and strong. With self-honesty and focus comes a remarkable flow of inner power which more than
compensates for any loss of "safe" concepts. In fact, when you have truly made the necessary
changes, you do not mourn the loss of anything for you see clearly what a terrible price you paid
in the past for your illusions and you experience immense relief to be free of their thrall.

Learn to use discomfort as a warning signal for ruthless honesty and clarity rather than for evasion and pretense...