It's very difficult to engage with a theist when he or she is being

[BurtWorm]

dishonest, which they frequently are when trying to one-up atheists in the logic department. :eyes: (True story!)

[trotsky]

1. Say it ain't so, BW.

I've *never* had that happen to me. Every theist I've engaged has always been logically impartial, ESPECIALLY with regards to their own personal beliefs. :eyes:

[BurtWorm]

3. Believe it or not, trotsky!

Sometimes even here at DU! ;)

[fshrink]

2. It is absolutely impossible to engage with a theist, and

the only reason why I would do do is if he/she is one of my patient. And even then, it would have to be relevant to the work and I generally stay clear away from religion. So far, I've had only one patient, a severe paranoid, who comes to me over and over again with religious considerations.

[PassingFair]

5. Hey f:

Do secular psychiatrists have a national listing service or some way of identifying themselves? I do advertising, and some of the doctors I deal with put the ichy fish in their ads to bait the religious, but I haven't had one yet who asked to be cued in to the secular patient.
I have never had counseling, but if I did, I would definately not want to be in the position to be judged crazy/non-crazy by a doctor who had what I consider to be an irrational belief in the supernatural.
Just curious...

[fshrink]

6. Man.... Oh man...

I'm the ONLY psychologist clean of any type of religious belief that I know of and have ever known of! That covers only my history in NY, Texas and Wyoming. I have to stay low or I suspect hords would throw accusation of abuse, or whatever, at me. I can do that only because most are afraid to challenge the "shrink", who they think can see through them (which is often the case). I hold by the paint... And since there are probably very few of us, publishing it would amount, if you ask me, to professional suicide. Don't ask don't tell...

[PassingFair]

8. Then who do scientists go to...

what's a secular family to do if their nerves are stretched thin? Would an average shrink think we're crazy?

[BurtWorm]

10. Do you ever wonder if the mental health profession has more in common

with the priesthood than with the medical profession? I don't think it must, because I think mental illness is treatable empircally. But I think the profession's roots as Freud's "church" has a lot to do with what it has become.

[GOPFighter]

4. How can you even argue with a theist...

...when their entire argument is based not on logic but on faith? It's so damn frustrating to have someone tell me I'm wrong because "that's what it says in the Bible." For example, when I tried to argue that Noah's ark was not nearly big enough to carry two of every species, the person agreed but claimed that it still has to be true because "that's what it says in the Bible."

[fshrink]

7. You're right, you can't. That's their unbeatable trick.

[BurtWorm]

9. You're right. One shouldn't argue with a theist. But even "discussions"

can be deadly when the theist won't put his or her agenda on the table. I'm referring to a "discussion" I had recently with a theist who tried to bait atheists with a tit for tat kind of argument: "Well, if you say Jesus never existed, then I'm going to argue that some secular 'saint' never existed, and you can't prove he did. See how mad that makes you secularists?" This is all subtextual, however; the theist poses the non-existence of the "saint" as though the thought just occurred to him to spread this shocking news, then denies it has anything to do with arguments against the historicity of Jesus.