Must...resist...urge...to flame...Xians...in GD...

[Modem Butterfly]

AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!

:banghead:

[Az]

1. Vent here

And know that you still have the cutest graphic of anyone in your sig.

[Zenlitened]

2. I don't know whether to cry or just barf.

That there are people so sanctimonious that they would post threads urging us -- in some cases insisting that we -- PRAY for Jerry Falwell.

I can't even begin to describe how repugnant I find that.

At best, it's moral grandstanding, an act of vanity and self-aggrandizement. At worst, it shows that some people truly have no sense of right and wrong BECAUSE of their depraved religious beliefs.

Sick sick sick.

[onager]

3. Oh, go ahead...

Tuning up to incite you by singing an old James Bond theme song...

Nobody does it better...

And if anything can incite riots, my singing could.

The Jerry Falwell lovefest left me with my jaw hanging, too. My own flamin' fingers were twitching on that one.

[trotsky]

4. I'm finding it hard to care anymore.

Some of them will find persecution in the mere fact that we exist. It's ingrained in the religion - persecution means validation. So if you seek validation (and who doesn't), you might just try to find it wherever you can.

[Az]

6. So if it's difficult do we give up?

And as you said. Some of them will find persecution in anything. That means that some of them won't. We aren't going to win everyone over in one go. Not in a million attempts. But we do make progress with every honest attempt to address the issues that matter to us.

I know the struggle can take it out of you. But I believe it is worth it. I cannot live in a world that is not moving forward. And if I don't see enough people moving it forward then I have to put my shoulder to the wheel and push it myself. I happen to know that our species tends to step up and take action when it sees someone else doing the same.

I am not going to give up. If others need a break we are here for each other. We are only human. I get fed up too. We will make a difference by helping each other, keeping our eyes forward, and continuing to fight to the good fight.

[trotsky]

7. What is this, "win one for the Gipper"?!?

LOL

No, I can't give up fighting against the abuses of religion. Never. But trying to dialog with SOME Christians, even some on DU, is utterly fruitless. By merely asking questions about their faith, they think you are trying to "convert" them or otherwise insulting their entire heritage or family.

[Az]

8. Thought you were down

Sorry I tried.

Look you aren't going to reach everyone. Reach the ones you can. Thats it in a nutshell.

[trotsky]

9. I can only hope the ones we reach...

are the ones that don't post. Because it sure doesn't seem like any progress is being made with the ones that do.

[Az]

10. They are

There are far more lurkers than posters. And in a contentious issue such as belief only those with strong convictions tend to post. The rest sit back, read, and decide based on the presentation of the various sides.

There was a post here recently concerning the rise of atheists on this site. Its a real factor. DU has become a much safer place for atheists to post their positions lately. This is because of the efforts of those that have been here for a time.

But this rise of atheists affects the dynamics of the larger group. And the believers wind up feeling pressured by it. Eventually they speak out and express their concerns. If we turn it into a fight between believer and nonbeliever it is going to scare many away. The art here is to find a way to show that atheists are not a threat and can be part of the community without driving all the believers out.

This is in a way a smaller version of what we have to do in society. We need to demand our place at the table. We need to show that we are a positive part of society and take an active interest in it.

[Tafiti]

21. This is tough.

On one hand, I've recently come to the realization that there are so many people out there who "just don't get it." And by "it", I mean anything. They can't be bothered to think rationally or logically - not only is it tiresome and annoying, it's just not important to some people. Some people just need to feel good about themselves, about who they are, and this sort of validation is either aggressively sought after, or already present from their upbringing. Either way, it's an absolutely essential element of their existence, even if only subconsciously. Religion provides such validation, and, especially in our culture, demands automatic respect. These people's minds are made up, even if the conclusion they reached required very little actual thinking. Religion is safe and easy (despite the outcries of persecution here), and that's why it's attractive. "Why worry about anything?...IT'S IN GOD'S HANDS!!!" (Don't you just love that one?)

However, on the other hand, these same people would not be the type to actually be interested to read posts on a political message board. It seems to me that the lurkers, simply because of the fact that they're here, are far more likely to be "able to be reached" than some people you might encounter in your everyday life. For some such people, yes, this sort of discussion is indeed fruitless, in my opinion. But on this board, I'd say the "good fight" is usually worth it. Obviously, a few exceptions will always apply, even if on DU, a few is more probably more than just that.

[trotsky]

22. Excellent observations.

I completely agree - especially this sentence:

These people's minds are made up, even if the conclusion they reached required very little actual thinking.

[Hamlette]

18. I need a break

glad to be back in the world of the rational.

THEY ARE DRIVING ME CRAZY! What in the hell possessed me to think I could talk to them????????????????

[Az]

19. Necessity

The world is swamped with believers. They have an impact on our lives. We are social critters and we have to make our way in this world. So we have to deal with them and if we wish to affect or direct the nature of the world we live in we have to reach them.

But it is tiring. Not just dealing with the screaming matches. Walking the fine line between critiquing and insulting is difficult too. I'm whooped myself. But the world continues to spin. So take a break. Comiserate with those that seem to get it. And get yourself ready to get back into the frey.

[progressoid]

5. Sheesh - apparently we're even supposed to be praying for Falwell too!

-- now where is that exploding head smiley? --

[Bluebear]

11. Yes, remember on one's death/critical phase all is forgiven.

:crazy:

[onager]

12. Pray for the Two-Bit Torquemada? Oh yeah...

Here's Jerry a week or so ago:

"But I've already given my living will. Don't you dare pull the plug on me. I want to wake up in 14 years and say, "What day is it? What time is it?"

"GOOD morning, Rev. Falwell! It's Sunday, March 29, 2018...and time to watch the weekly press conference with President Barbara Boxer and Vice-President Barney Frank..."

:evilgrin:

(I stole that idea from another DU'er and changed it a bit.)

[SlackJawedYokel]

13. Let us all pray the Old Ones enjoy

using him for the rest of eternity.
All hail Cthulhu!

The best revenge, actually, is knowing that he'll just be worm food in spite of what he believes and that the world will be just that much better with his leaving.

Feh... good riddance, I say.

Cletus

[YankeyMCC]

14. I'm struggling with all this

"Don't lump me in with the RW fundies." stuff.

I don't do that, I wouldn't be surprised if some people did that but...I just haven't seen it. Am I being to productive at work and need to spend more time on DU to witness that stuff.

Honestly it does disturb me. One thing marriage has taught me - sometimes being "right" isn't what it is all about. There's the well-being of others, the practical effect of you actions (you might be just in yelling but does it make the situation any better?) Most of the people I know are xian, many others are nonxian theists and the vast majority are perfectly nice and intelligent people. Nobody is perfect not even us atheists :)

Much of the burden of communication is on the speaker (writer) so if we're not making it clear that although we don't believe in a god and dislike religions we recognize that they shouldn't be lumped together any more than we should and that we know how to coexists and work with people who believe in things we don't, then we are failing in some way.

Yes it's a two way street but should should at least do our best to control our end of it.

[Az]

15. If being right were what it was all about

It is pleasant to think that the issue would have been resolved long ago. But the fact that so many beliefs continue to exist simply indicates that there is something else at play besides just being right.

Orthodox beliefs continue to exist (though they struggle a bit more now) even in an age that has accumulated enough knowledge to evicerate their core beliefs.

I have tried arguing with believers using torrents of facts. Irrefutible facts. And their belief holds. And yet when I turn from facts and move into positions of trust suddenly their armor weakens.

Belief is not based on reason. But it also is not devoid of reason. It comes from the core of what we are. It comes from how we learn and form bonds.

[FM Arouet666]

16. Flame away.........

I say "Braise the Lord"



Flame away, GD is full of religious and tin foil hat topics that should be contested. Democrats must demonstrate critical thinking, failure to do so leads to a nation of Faux news watching, Rush Limbaugh believing, religious zealots voting for a man with less functioning neurons than Terri Shiavo.

:evilgrin: :nuke:

[trotsky]

23. LMFAO

I nearly did a spit-take with my tea. Hahahahaha

[Kathy in Cambridge]

17. Me too. And I'm a Christian!

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[jonnyblitz]

20. i haven't been doing a very good job of resisting nt.

[Zenlitened]

24. Fortunately, at least one of the "pray for falwell" types...

... has been tombstoned.

The simpering sanctimony level has just been measurably reduced.