Boy Scouts came to my son's class yesterday.

[melv]

He is 6. They came to the school to hand out "tickets" to a "sign-up rally" tonight.

So, my son wants to join because "you get to shoot a bow and arrow, and also a b-b-gun."

What he doesn't understand is that he will get kicked out as soon as they find out that we are agnostic.

I am SO pissed off right now.

[shrike]

1. That's terrible

You mean they really kick you out if you're agnostic? Seriously??

I'm Catholic and I think that's absolutely amazing.

[PassingFair]

2. Where have you been?

A couple of years ago they very publically gave one of their own eagle scouts the heave-ho for being an atheist.
They should receive no government funding, as far as I'm concerned, and they should NOT be recruiting in the public schools.

[onager]

3. Here's one of the news stories...

Web Posted: March 24, 1998

The California State Supreme Court ruled yesterday that the Boy Scouts of America did not fall under the purview of anti-discrimination laws, and thus may bar gays and applicants who do not believe in a deity.

In two unanimous decisions, the justices examined cases filed by twin brothers, Michael and William Randall, who would not swear a religious oath as required by the Scouts for membership, and the case of an 18-year old Eagle Scout who was turned down for a position as a Scout Leader because he was identified as a homosexual.

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/bsa1.htm

melv: this is a tough one. Maybe your boy can learn to shoot bows and BB guns from a different organization. I can imagine how badly he wants to join, after that sales pitch.

[shrike]

5. Under a rock, I guess

But seriously, I was never a scout and neither was any member of my family. I can't think of a single friend or acquaintance who has been involved in scouting; ergo, I know very little about them and have had little interest in their doings -- until now.

I heard about the "gay scoutmaster" controversy some time ago, but never anything about anyone being kicked out because of their religious beliefs.

[Modem Butterfly]

4. They kicked my brother out for being an atheist

This was in the late 70's in California.

[Jokerman]

6. My parents pulled me from a troop run by fundies.

They were pressuring me to join their church. When they finally got me to admit that my family didn't attend church they freaked out and really poured it on.

When my dad found out he told them off and moved me to another troop where the leader wasn't hung up on religion.

I had some good times with the scouts but as long as they continue to discriminate, I will not support them.

[Book Lover]

7. You should be

I understand that there are BS troops where the atheist and gay issues simply do not come up, and that the national rulings are ignored. By my lack of god, I am glad my family lives in liberal California.

Was this in class during homeroom or something? I was wondering what the girls were doing while the boys had the Scouts pitched to them.

[melv]

8. yup, right in the classroom

I have been doing some research today about the situation. Since my son is 6 years old, I have to sign an agreement as well, which contains and excerpt from the Boy Scouts "Doctrine of Religious Principles."

Here's what it says:
The BSA maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude towards religious training. Its policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religous life.

Only members willing to subscribe to the Declaration of Religous Priciple and to the bylawas of the Boy Scouts shall be entitled to certificates of membership.

[Book Lover]

9. Well, that's clear as day at least

I mean, it's completely wrong and mean-spirited, but at least they say it in black and white. Again, I am so glad to live where I do!

Have you ever heard of Scouting for All? They aren't nearly as organized as the BS (I get such a puerile pleasure using that abbreviation) but they do the same stuff. I mean, if your son seems interested, it might be something to look into... Then again, for him, it may be the BS or nothing, if that's what his friends are doing. Good luck.

[BiggJawn]

11. Well, that's that, then....

Gee, I've seen the "Best kind of Citizen" on Teeee-Veeee begging me to send him a $25 "love gift". Guess i'll stay where I am...

"Absolutely non-sectarian"? Could you express adoration of the FSM and join?

[CarbonDate]

15. lol, I'd like to see that one put to the test....

...my troop's leaders (including my dad) were hung up on religion, but one pagan leader resisted the push for all the boys to have to go to church. (My family has been gaining a lesson in tolerance thanks to me.)

[WhollyHeretic]

10. I can't stand them and people look at you like you're abusive when

you say you won't let your son join them, at least that's what happened to me. The boy scouts are a horrible organization, during their national meeting one year they had Ann Coulter and Oliver North speaking. I'm not sure what those two could possibly add to the boy scouts except for some merit badges for being bat-shit crazy.

[trotsky]

12. Same exact situation as you.

My son is also 6, and his school starts next Tuesday.

At the open house tomorrow night, I know there will be a large Boy Scout presence. Fortunately at the Kindergarten open house last year he didn't notice and/or question.

I hope to explain to him that it's wrong to join the scouts because they don't like certain kinds of people. Even if we weren't in one of the groups they hate, I think that's still more than a valid reason not to join that bigoted organization.

It makes me angry, too, how that hate-filled group gets such massive indirect support from our public schools.

[onager]

13. Did I mention they solicited me for a donation?

Phone solicitation. Actually, the pitch came from the Los Angeles County Reserve Sheriff's Association. They were sponsoring a Boy Scout troop somewhere here in Gomorrah. (Sodom is about 400 miles north. Just ask the Fundies.)

I'm pretty sure they won't be calling back. Ever!

[trotsky]

14. Bwah ha ha!

Let the bigots donate more of their own damn money.

[beam me up scottie]

16. My home state of Vermont has

refused to allow the scouts access to any public schools since they won the right to discriminate against homosexuals.

No groups that practice discrimination are allowed access.

[Discord]

24. Vermont Rocks!!!

Gotta love a state that has nothing against telling these elitist, bigoted, fundamentalist, whining, deviod of moral conscience fucktards where to shove it.

[really annoyed]

17. Try the Spiral Scouts

I believe it was founded by those of the Pagan tradition, but it's open to everybody.

These scouts specifically state they do not discriminate "on the basis of religion, gender, sexual preference, ethnicity, race, age, etc."

You would need to see if it's an option suited for your son, but it's a good suggestion.

http://www.spiralscouts.org

[NMMNG]

18. That's a shame

It's so frustrating when so many things have to have mind-warping BS attached to them. It's a freaking kids organization designed for fun and outdoorsmanship, not a damn church group! Nonetheless, they have to attach their stupid singleminded Christian principles to it so only certain "types" can join. It's blatant discrimination and they should get no government funding whatsoever.

[Arianrhod]

19. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Lord Baden-Powell founded the Scouts just before WWI as a paramilitary "survivalist" organization for young men. The original program was based on the training he used to give to soldiers in North Africa.

Although there have always been rumors that he was a highly degreed Mason, he and his family have consistently denied them. Still, Christianity was a mainstay of his personal philosophy, and a great number of troops and dens are sponsored by churches--especially Mormons.

I was an adult Scout Leader for 8 years. While the program may have some beneficial ideas to it, they've all been warped out of recognition in actual practice. I won't have anything more to do with the organization.

I do agree that they should get no government sponsorship of any kind. But in today's political world, we know that's not going to happen. . . . :(

[salvorhardin]

20. Anyone aware of the Green Shirts?

The Greent Shirts
One of the more unique offshoots of the Boy Scouts and the Social Credit movement.

Truly a group that would give any Larouchian NWO PCTer a conspiragasm.

On August 18, 1920, a group of young men met in a London hall to formalise the foundation of a new movement to be known as the Kindred of the Kibbo Kift. The aims of this movement had been written down two months earlier in the form of a seven-point Covenant, which ran as follows:

* Open Air Education for the Children. Camp Training and Naturecraft.
* Health of Body, Mind and Spirit.
* Craft Training Groups and Craft Guilds.
* The Woodcraft Family, or Roof Tree.
* Local Folk Moots and Cultural Development.
* Disarmament of Nations - Brotherhood of Man.
* International Education based on these points.
o Freedom of Trade between Nations.
o Stabilisation of the Purchasing Power of Money in all countries.
o Open Negotiations instead of secret treaties and diplomacy.
o A World Council.
http://www.kibbokift.org/kkkhist.html

Check out the lyrics to their wacky anthem:

I
Wake now the Dead!
The Living Dead who stand
Waiting for the Call
That will echo through the land!
Green Shirts advance!
The steadfast and the strong
Rally to the ranks
As the Hosts march on!

Chorus
Dead Men arise
From the catacombs of Death!
Rise from the grave
To breath the Living Breath!
Break, now, the Spell
Cast by numbers over Things
Fight for your Life
To which the Spirit clings!

II
Wake, now, the Dead!
The Spirit-quickened Host,
Resurected Men,
From the inlands to the coast!
Men of the Green!
Upswing the Shaft of Light
Sweeping like a sword
In the World's Last Fight

Chorus
Dead Men arise etc.

Count of four

Coda
Wake, now, the Dead!
By numbers held in thrall;
On this fruitful Earth
There is Earth-wealth for all!

[Phentex]

21. Same thing happened to me.

They make these really cool presentations and talk about camping, etc. It's very difficult to explain it to young children. But I do the same thing when we see the Salvation Army beggers.

[Kolesar]

22. United Way funds the Boy Scouts. Should I quit donating on that account?

One reason I stay in UW is that I earmark most of my funds to Planned Parenthood of Summit County. I think of it as "sending a message" to the management of UW that people support PP. What do you think? Cut them off?

[onager]

23. So do I, for the same reason.

Several years ago, I heard a rumor that UW had caved into pressure from the Religious Reich and stopped supporting Planned Parenthood.

When UW had the annual Pledge Drive at our company, I asked one of the reps directly if that was true. She said it was not, and as you noted, I could direct my weekly donation anywhere. I do the same as you, and direct most of it to Planned Parenthood.

I've also asked Girl Scout leaders...usually while buying cookies...why they don't have the same problems as the B.S. The general answer: "We'd rather help kids, not make cheap political points."