I am glad the apology was worded the way it was

[TayTay]

Like it or not, the media made this into a diss of 'our troops' rather than the joke about Bush that Sen. Kerry intended. That meant that it became about John Kerry and a judgment call he made in a split-second of speaking. (Very unfair. Life, you know, if sometimes very unfair.)

Politics is never, ever about the person running. It's about what they will do for others and, in this case, about Sen. Kerry building a case for bringing the troops home from a war he deemed immoral. Like it or not, the powerful media didn't care about that and made it about Kerry vs. the troops. This apology, worded as it is, removes that.

I think the Senator did the right thing here. I am sorry that we have the media we do and the Democratic sell-outs that we do, but that is life as it actually is. This apology rights the ship again and makes it possible for the Senator to speak out again without this baggage. He knows that it is never about 'you,' it is always about us, as in 'we the people.' Smart man.

He did the right thing, as usual.

[ProSense]

1. The RW is suddenly trying

to spin the furor over Kerry's comment as having no impact on the election. Kerry stood up and refused to apologize! The 24 hours between statements gave the RW enough time and rope to go off the deep end: Tony snow called for an apology 16 times; Cheney, McCain and Bush made stupid remarks within the past 48 hours!

Then Kerry apologized, and left them with nothing, except a public more focused on Iraq!

They believed they were taking Kerry out of post-election play as a strong voice on Iraq. They got over for a while, then they got played. Tony Snow got caught out there. Kerry's apology left him stumbling to find an explanation of the context of his 17 calls for Kerry to apologize for the distortion. Kerry's statement was perfectly worded. It wasn't the apology Snow wanted, but it was the apology he had to accept. Spin dead!

[wisteria]

3. Well, i am hearing that it may have allowed for 1% extra repub base

voters to come out. It was also said that many troops, and the American legion were angry about Kerry's comments. Actually, they were making Kerry out to be a jackass- sorry. I am pissed. It seems they are doing a real chop job on Kerry. As for the apologize, I never thought it was necessary.

[karynnj]

6. It's way too early for them to know that

If they had a sample that was done Monday night and another Tuesday night - they could heve that result, but they wouldn't hev the effect for what happened today - they would still be collecting it.

Look at what it replaced Webb's book, Ford's ads. My quess is this HELPS Ford - not because people like Kerry, but the ad stories were gone. the idea that it replaced real news is a laugh.

Likely the biggest effect is the best voice on Iraq is silent for the next 6 days.

[wisteria]

8. Well then some on CNN are out gunning for Kerry.

They have been just terrible towards Kerry- especially Zahn. I wonder what he ever did to her? My tin foil hat theory is that many on CNN are gearing up to support her majesty.

[ProSense]

11. Did you see their statement:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20061101/pl_usnw/the_american_legion_accepts_kerry_s_apology__renews_call_for_better_gi_bill157_xml

[wisteria]

18. No, thanks for the link. n/t

[fedupinBushcountry]

2. Agree 100%

The media sucks, except for KO, the guy is fed up just like the rest of us, and he is our Edward Murrow, speaking truth to power. I was welling up during his comment tonight, and he showed through his comment what a true statesman JK is.

[wisteria]

7. Oh, I agree. It was the only bright spot in a bad day. I had tears in my eyes. n/t

[politicasista]

4. I think so too

check your pm! :hi:

[wisteria]

5. Tay Tay, how do you think this plays out for 08? n/t

[Mass]

9. Not TayTay, but too early to tell

Who knows what may happen in the next few months?

As an aside, here is a CNN poll showing where people were earlier this week in a CNN poll (taken from th e 27-29 Oct)

Clinton 28
Obama 17
Gore 13
Edwards 13
Kerry 12

Most noticeable changement were Clinton and Gore who lose 10 points because of Obama. Edwards is unchanged and Kerry is up 3 points.

This to say that there is no way to know how something can play. This poll was taken right in the middle of the article about how Kerry was a miser, and gave him an opportunity to make his case. So, it is way to early to tell, IMHO.

[TayTay]

12. So, it's volatile and subject to the latest news surge

Same old, same old.

[wisteria]

20. Cnn presented this as Kerry trailing badly. Zahn of course. n/t

[karynnj]

51. Kerry, Edwards and Gore are in a dead heat

So I guess they are all trailing badly. With a cover of Time and Oprah's endorsement - is Obama being 4 points ahead massive. The question is how Kerry deals with this.

[politicasista]

52. Good question n/t

[karynnj]

26. This was an online poll then

Those have no real validity as their samples are self selected and may not be representative. But it does show what you said - that people are not fixed on their choices. This is bad news for Hillary as it shows people want someone else.

Was anyone else shocked by the Richard Wolfe (Newsweek) comments on Hillary's Kerry comment. He clearly does not like her as a person. Her intentional comments may hurt her as much as Kerry's can hurt him. They add to things like the exasperated eye rolling in "Inside the Bubble" at Bush's performance and even going back to the fake country twang when she defended her husband on the 60 minutes show. She is not warm and friendly - Obama appears to be. (and we know Kerry is).

[TayTay]

10. Ahm, I'm not sure I want to post that publicly.

I think that the apology was, unfortunately, the compelling thing to do.

There are considerations going forward. We now know that there really is very little interaction official Dems in DC want to have with a certain Senator. Almost no one already in DC said anything supportive. That means something.

I suspect that there are also others, perhaps those with financial strings to pull who, ahm, may have exerted some influence, in the way that only those people can.

We shall see how it plays out.

I do know that this came up in the Massachusetts Gubernatorial debate in Boston tonight. It is not good that Deval Patrick, Mr. Nice Guy himself, called the remarks Sen. Kerry made, 'dumb' and agreed with the need for an apology. If we lose Deval Patrick then, ahm, you know a mistake has been made. It had to be corrected. (But this is not good that it came up at home, in Massachusetts. Not good at all. Watch the Globe this week, I think it will turn unpleasant.)

The rest will unfold in time. I think it's over and will hardly be remembered after next week. But time will tell.

[beachmom]

13. Oh. That is bad.

Can I indulge in negativity for a nanosecond and say these last two days have just completely and royally sucked, and I'm just so drained. Why couldn't it have happened to someone else? We'll get through it, but things just don't seem as bright as they did a week ago.

[TayTay]

14. Sigh! Maybe, maybe not

I have heard Sen. Kerry say, as have others, that a week is an eternity in politics because anything can happen. That is as true for the difference between this week and next as it was for the difference between last week and this.

This will go away. (It was, after all, about nothing. If Sen. Kerry had said something definably negative about the troops, instead of the questionable thing he did say, then that would have been a sustained wound. This, not so much.)

I am sorry this whole mess happened. But that's the way it goes. People are, after all, human and make mistakes. Kerry made his this week. Others will make theirs in the weeks to come. Mistakes are inevitable. What I deeply regret is that other Dems, Dems who should know better, did not back the good Senator more. We, as Democrats, should have more fully learned that lesson by now.

Politics, in some ways, is the most zen thing I can think of. If you don't like how it is this week, tune in next week, it will all be different. All things exist only in the moment in which they exist, if at all. Sigh!

There are lessons to be learned. Kerry is a smart man, he will no doubt take them under advisement. One, it really is true that if you want a friend in Washington, get a dog. Two, Republicans suck and are a dishonest bunch who will turn any little thing into a huge argument and three, never, ever trust John McCain again. That man is not to be trusted for anything. He has sold his soul.

We live to fight another day. And so it goes.

[TayTay]

15. BTW, just saw something on Boston TV

They were interviewing the widow of a soldier who was killed in Iraq. The remark irritated her and she is glad Sen. Kerry apologized. She knew he wasn't dissing the troops, but still, even the appearance of this was bad. She felt better with the apology and wants it to go away now.

I concur. And again, this is why it was the right thing to do. At some point, you aren't arguing with Republicans anymore. You are explaining yourself to the widows of heroes killed in combat. No matter the intentions, no matter the fact that the media and the Rethugs overplayed this, that is a conversation that one should avoid at all costs.

BTW, people did mention all the excellent things that Sen. Kerry has done for our troops in the Congress. That was well remembered.

[beachmom]

16. Did you see Digby today?

He talked about the whole RW formula. One step is how other DLC type Dems don't back you up. Then he had another post about how we abandoned that American soldier, but instead everyone was talking about "trivial bullshit" (a la Kerry).

Digby, as always, is right (he predicted the torture "compromise" a million miles away). I still think the compromise was the most shameful thing McCain has done in his life, because he WAS tortured. He screwed over himself, so screwing over his friend was just a walk in the park.

[Democrafty]

17. KO called McCain out on this.

I don't want to get into it, because I don't want to misquote it, but he really let him have it.

[beachmom]

19. Are you talking about the Special Comment?

I just viewed it -- WOW. And I sent it to my parents. They're watching and reading in the WRONG places. YouTube is our only hope.

[Democrafty]

21. Yeah - wasn't it amazing? n/t

[ginnyinWI]

22. I just watched it--it's his best yet!

Especially because he's defending JK, but overall it's such a very apt description of what's really going in in this country.

[whometense]

23. The Daily Show actually did a good job on this story.

They led with the story about the soldier being abandoned in Iraq, then interrupted it with breaking news: Kerry flubbed a joke.

Jon Stewart had some fun with the idea of Kerry-as-comedian and mocked his way of speaking - BUT they showed Bush's "missing WMD" clip, and slashed him to ribbons.

[karynnj]

25. After Bush, do we want the President to be a comedian?

Jon Steward is wonderful. (It's a good thing Steward likely didn't have the Emerson graduation tape.)

[Inuca]

28. Colbert too

I was half asleep by then, but the main point I remember was his glee at the JK "news", and then how if JK were president we would be out of Iraq, which means the troops would be out of jobs, and how the real troop supporter has created over 100 new jobs just this month through "vacancies" (hardly any laughter at this, but rather a stunned silence).

[wisteria]

33. Wow, that packs a punch. n/t

[Inuca]

27. About lessons learned

One of the most maddening comments I heard last night, forgot what channel, but the context was 08 and how he blew his chances, was that he has learned nothing from the mistakes he did in 04. I went nukular at that :nuke:

[ProSense]

29. If you watched

MSNBC, it was probably Richard Wolfe!

[Inuca]

31. I was switching

I even watched Fox! I don't think it was Wolfe, though he DID say some really nasty things (but he also said that the whole episode may have hurt the republicans rather then the dems).

[Mass]

30. Hillary's supporters at work.

Yesterday, the buzz was that he had learned a lot. They got afraid of that and pushed people so that he gets out of the limelight.

She definitively won this round, but not the war. Read the blogs today. See who gets support, and not necessarily from people who like Kerry.

[beachmom]

32. Well, she just lost my vote.

I always said I would vote for her in the general, but now I won't. If it's John McCain vs. Hillary Clinton, it means I stay home or vote for 3rd party, etc. And I have voted in EVERY presidential election since I turned 18. I don't say this in a hissy fit -- I say this knowing that she is not much different than the other side. And I don't want to be morally responsible for the torture she'll permit, the throwing of the poor under the bus for corporations, the continued gay bashing, and God knows what else she'll do. She has no soul, no morals, and neither does John McCain. They're not worthy of the office of the president, and yet the media continues to trumpet their names.


New Presidential List:

1. John Kerry
2. Al Gore
3. Barak Obama (with an experienced VP)

Now I'm mad Mark Warner dropped out -- he could have taken votes away from her.

[Inuca]

35. Will you really?

Not go and vote for her if it is her vs. McCain (or any other repub for that matter)? If you actually have to make that choice, I am sure you will go and vote for her. I Do dislike her, more & more actually. But any dem would be better than any republican. I may have small shades of doubt if Giuliani were the nominee, he is an a..hole in many respects, but he is competent and can be effective. Anyway.... completely off topic now, sorry...

[beachmom]

38. Actually, I'm wrong to say the Kerry flap should cost my vote for her

It's when she said she would allow torture. That's when we learned all we needed to know about her -- that she'd sell human rights down the road in her effort to "triangulate". The Kerry betrayal just was an example of more of the same.

[wisteria]

40. I won't vote for her-period. Dem or no Dem. Frankly, I find her to be

obnoxious. And I apologize if I offend you by saying so. I feel she will corrupt this country even further.

[Inuca]

42. No offense whatsoever

I DO pray that Hillary vs. ??? is a choice we will never have to make. I was simply saying that betwenn "bad" and "even worse" I would chose "bad", that's all. Until there is a fundamental change in this country, and there is a viable 3rd alternative, I will always vote and vote democratic. 2000 and Nader should not be an easily forgotten lesson. President Gore anyone?

[wisteria]

39. I am with you. I never liked her, but I was willing to vote for her in

a general election if it came down to that. Now, no way. She is contemptible.
I like her supporters suggesting that in 08, this will all be forgotten and Hillary will have won us over. For me, no way in hell.

[karynnj]

50. I feel exactly the same

This shows the type of people they are. I like your lis - it's the same one I have. My husband doesn't believe that I would not vote for Hillary, but I seriously mean that I wouldn't. I've voted each year since 1972 when I canvassed for McGovern. I almost voted for Anderson in 1980, but feared Reagan more so I voted for Carter. I wish I wouldn't have voted in 1996 contributing to an easy win.

I seriously can't believe that they are completely stabbing Kerry in the back. I also don't know why Clinton is referring to one sentence as "remarks". I seriously think it is more than 2008 politics. I suspect that the Clintons may NOT want the shift away from neo-con philosophy that appears to be coming - with Kerry as one leader.

[wisteria]

37. You know, she should be asked why she supported the Republican lies

instead of defending a Democrat when she risked nothing by doing so. Frankly, one has to question her integrety.

[wisteria]

34. Was it CNN? I think the Clinton's have paid them to do a smear on Kerry.

Zahn and Cooper were obnoxious. Going so far as to say limo liberal. Suggesting that the party doesn't like him. Suggesting that he is a distant 5 in their poll, when in fact he is one point behind Edwards and Gore and claiming that when asked about another Kerry run, people say, oh, him again? They then went on the promote Obama.

[Inuca]

36. Yes, most likely CNN n/t

[jillan]

24. I agree. Kerry did the right thing.

It wasn't going to go away until he did apologize.

The msm was saying ridiculous things about Kerry, that he was just trying to make up for not going after the swiftboat liars.

Now the dems have the upperhand. When the media whores bring it up, then can just say that there are more important things to talk about.

[wisteria]

41. As we figured though, it still isn't going away entirely.

The repubs don't like his "lawyer" apology and now Fox has come up with a quote from 1972 (yes, 1972) where he comments on those who join the military.

[Inuca]

43. Not entirely

but at least it is fading. He issued the statement, and I hope he will keep out of the news until after the election. Unfair and terribly sad, but I think that it is the "right thing to do". And I also hope that right after that he comes out blazing. Unless things do not turn out so well next Tuesday.... a thought too horrible to contemplate... but I am afraid that even if we comfortably win the House but we do not win the Senate, there will be voices blaming him for that. Life most certainly is NOT fair....

[Firespirit]

44. They just don't know when to stop, do they?

The repubs don't like him, is what it comes down to. But we knew that.

If they keep this up, it will backfire on them. There are already numerous editorials in support of him. If they continue beating this dead horse, they'll just look stupid.

It won't go away entirely until after "that" announcement. It'll be brought up once again then, but no one will want to hear about it. 2007 and 2008 will not be about this, I assure you of that.

[TayTay]

45. This is a volatile moment and emotions are on edge.

We have a very, very 'hot' election going on that is extremely important for this country. Let that be the focus for now.

Faux News does what they do. We can't stop them. It is pointless and stressful to pretend that we can. They are grasping for any little thing that will hold back the Democratic wave. This is something they think can help and will re-inforce their 'Dems are all elites who don't care about real Americans' meme. It won't. The Repubs are still doomed.

There were people who blamed Kerry for the last loss. How is this different from last time. Losing candidates will reach out for a scapegoat because losing sucks and it feels better to blame someone else for a defeat. It was always thus. It will probably happen again. i think they would have done it anyway.

Some things can be avoided, some can't.

[beachmom]

46. People forget these are local elections

I can tell you this whole thing will not affect the election here. It's what the actual candidates do and say that will (Allen is in big trouble, especially that ugly tackle) matter most. And if there's anything national about it, it will be checking George W. Bush's power. Kerry represents Massachusetts, and he's not on any ballot. That's it.

[wisteria]

47. Thanks for keeping me sane. I want to rip someones hair out right now. n/t

[TayTay]

48. Hold peace Wisteria

There are ups and downs in politics. It is unavoidable.

Ask yourself why you are here. Why did you come to NH to see that speech? What is it that you want to see happen in this country? Where do those interests mesh?

We are in it for the long haul. That means roads that are full of curves and potholes. Hold peace, mark your time, remember why you came in the first place and then go out and work for change in '06.

This too shall pass.

[wildflowergardener]

49. daily show

re: the daily show and stephen colbert, I tivo the shows, but have been afraid to watch the last couple of days, but heard a stephen colbert clip on Randi Rhodes and decided to watch - so glad they are treating this the way they are. Just watching yesterday's shows made me feel alot better about this. I really enjoyed the clip where John Stewart was talking about the other flub Kerry made that day when he was trying to make balloon animals for kids and then you see Kerry holding a balloon swastika.

Sorry - I have a sick sense of humor. Makes you see how silly it all is though.

Also, really glad to hear all my favorite radio hosts on Kerry's side - rachel maddow, randi rhodes, sam sedar and mike malloy - luckily the two dumb hosts I heard were not shows I listen to anyway.

I don't mind that Kerry apologized, esp. since he worded it the way he did - since I don't believe he did anything wrong - other than make a mistake in wording, but since the right wing media are harping on it this way it gets out to the troops that he just made a mistake in speaking and is sorry if they misunderstood and were hurt by it. I'll admit the first time I heard it out of context it does sound bad - which is why I did more digging because I found it really hard to believe he'd say something like this.

Regarding education and the army, etc. I do sometime think, and find it sad to think of how many kids are dying who maybe just wanted the chance to get a college education - like on of my friends went into the army for - partly to get money for school - she didn't die - but I mean I know there are probably alot of people who can't afford college on their own who go into the army to get money for it so they can have a future, and end up getting killed or wounded for life.

Meg