Will the firestorm over the botched joke affect John's decision to run in 2008?

[sandrakae]

[fedupinBushcountry]

1. For those who think

it will ( not talking to anyone here), they need to go shack up with the swift boat liars. I am so sick of this.

[beachmom]

3. I voted "I don't know". Because I really have no idea. n/t

[karynnj]

14. If I told the truth I would have voted with you

but I think you think is that this may be the first real bump in the road since we were all here - so we are seeing it magnified in a way that we did not see problems that rose up in 2004.

What concerns me the most is the timing of it - and the fact that Kerry is good enough to not defend himself at a point that it could hurt candidates. It angers me,that given that he is doing this, a less altruistic person is taking advantage of it. It also hurts that this should be the culmination of 2 years of work - and he is being treated extremely poorly.

[Inuca]

18. "culmination of 2 years of work "

It is terribly unfair, isn't it? After repeating 06 06 06 for almost two years, now in the final days he has to stay in the shadows, when otherwise he would have been all over the place. The machine he put in place is still running, I got a phone call from KAP the other day, as I was getting ready to come and donate online. I never give on the phone, but this time I did, and more than I would have otherwise (maybe more than it was wise for my own good :-)).

By the way, I also voted "I do nor know". I wonder if there is a point when a sane person, no matter how strong and how motivated says "enough is enough" and gets tired of being a punching bag. I also wonder a few other things that led to the "I do not know", better discussed after Tuesday is history.

[cadmium]

4. It may affect his decision in the opposite direction

I voted yes. It was a big shot across the bow and it has to have some effect one way or the other. He may come back stronger. He certainly becomes more of an outsider candidate after this given the tepid DC support. It may make him more determined. If he does decide to run all he needs to do is to get to the debates and it is a whole new ballgame.

[Democrafty]

6. LOL.

Right on, sister!

[Noisy Democrat]

2. The current shitstorm is fleeting

I would assume JK's decision will be affected only if he finds that there have been unexpected long-term effects. (The pundits expect long-term effects, but I mean "not expected by people who actually know something about JK and why he appeals to the public," which excludes most pundits.)

[wisteria]

7. Those supposed long term effects are wishful thinking on some

DC pundits. The media/ Hillary/DLC orchestrated blows were vicious, but they won't deter him. He has a mission to get this country back on track. And, this latest stunt will make him wiser to their tricks.

[Firespirit]

11. Hear hear

:applause:

Absolutely right, on all counts.

The media/Hillary/DLC spin is something that they hope will become true if they repeat it enough. It will have absolutely no effect on what Kerry himself decides to do. To their great frustration, no doubt. They clearly don't know the man if they think that their lame smears will make him curl up and go away.

He definitely knows who he can trust now, as well.

[fedupinBushcountry]

9. The pundits (news media)

had wiped him off their slate for another run since the day after the election. They have been running Hillary ever since. I know this as fact, my brother knows many in the news media and he is in N.Y. and he wasn't joking.

So they will try everything in their power to hit Kerry with. You know right before this happened JK was out there and the people wer loving it, and a lot came out just to see him. He got them re-energized, good reports were coming out, over flow crowds, statements saying I hope he runs again. The media is our enemy, don't forget that.

Edited to add: My brother is a reporter and covered Hillary in her first Senate run. He is the Senior field reporter now, so he isn't able to do it this time. He couldn't stand her at the time.

[cadmium]

12. 100% on that point. Make no mistake aobut it.

Can NEVER forget that.

Do you check out Dailyhowler.com

It can be a little tedious to read but he is meticulously documenting how the media (he focuses on supposed liberal media) screwed Al Gore in 2000. No doubt about it. Their approach to Kerry is similar.

[sandnsea]

15. Why?

Why does the media think they have a right to sway elections this way? And why in god's name Hillary??

[karynnj]

17. The media has always influenced elections

I was helping my youngest daughter review material from a chapter in US history about the Constitution. After the Constitution was written, it needed to be ratified by at least 9 of the 13 states. The federalists bought the newspapers in PA so that the anti-federalists could not get their message out. This succeeded and PA ratified the Constitution. I don't remember learning this in my US history course - it may have been the history books then had scrubbed the history of unpleasant facts. It was disconcerting to read this about the proponents of this great document,

It was also sad going through things I know are in jeopardy - habeas Corpus, separation of powers, balance of power, checks and balances. The election will likely help. The question will be how bad will the damage done by appointing Alito and possibly Roberts be. (we have little idea where Roberts stands on many things because he refused to say and had little public record.) We need this coming election so badly to make this change.

This vindictive attack on John Kerry is likely because both the Democrats and the Republicans see his ideas as a threat. It is clear from the saner editorials that they knew that at worse this was as the NYC said an impolite attack on President Bush, which it was. This highlights a media double standard though because the media has allowed a rude, contemptuous attitude on the part of Bush and especially Cheney toward most Democrats. That Senator Kerry could get called on not being polite to the President is justified, questioning his commitment to the troops is not.

Senator Kerry has been described as "polite" for most (if not all) of the public part of his life. Senator Kerry made the charge that Bush "went to war without a plan to win the peace" at least a million times in 2004 - and it was considered fair. This joke was problematic even if read well because in an attempt to make the parallel to school it was easy - especially when altered at all - to make it sound like he was questioning Bush's intelligence, not his conscientiousness.

Even people defending Kerry, such as Olberman interpreted it to be saying that Bush is dumb, though I read it as Bush not planning. The problem may be that the entire charge - even as made in 2004 - is a very serious charge that reaches the border line of what could be said. This joke, as written, moved a baby step further. This meant that when Senator Kerry botched the "joke", the text of what he intended to say is a very snarky comment - the type Kerry has been rewarded by applause from partisans for the last 2 years.

It also may be regional - in both the Boston and Chicago(Irish?) and the NYC(Jewish) cultures, black humor or snark is used when things are too bad to think of without some degree of pain. That type of joke is not as common elsewhere. (I learned I had to tone down my Chicago area sarcasm in Bloomington, Indiana - but it was welcome and considered funny in NJ.) This may account for the comments that ask why would anyone joke about Iraq. Anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes listening to the Senator speak of the soldiers in Iraq, knows the situation is one he takes to heart. He, not the President, is the one who spent an hour on the phone with a grieving mother.

So, in the dead of night, I do see that the joke likely did step over a line - but less so than nearly every sentence about the Democrats that has come out of Cheney's mouth and several out of Bush's mouth this month. Their comments are not being put into an echo chamber that condemns them ad nauseum - but they are losing votes because of them as Beachmom points out. The question is how can Kerry move from being grouped with them.

Senator Kerry had some beautiful words in one of the answers to the question and answers at Pepperdine where he spoke of the need for working together and bipartisanship. He also has - in several Senate speeches - pleaded for a return to civility. In fact, i think that was part of why he went to Pepperdine - to reach out to the other side. Speaking of this as balance is restored after the election, noting that he needed to work on this too, might make his comments stronger.

When he speaks about this gaffe - which he will likely have to - he might be able to connect the content back to the 2004 statement that has been found to me more accurate than he even knew in 2004 and to say that he should have said it exactly that way again. That statement is the plain truth version of the problematic joke and when you really contemplate the cost, it is beyond painful. Admitting that he didn't in this instance live up to the level of civility that he has pleaded for himself might help - especially as it is an exception. He is normally one of the politest, most civil people in the Senate. Here, his reputation as too formal actually helps him.

Senator Kerry would never disparage the military - as everyone in official Washington know and he has apologized to them for saying things that could be misinterpreted. I hope he does answer the American Legion by explaining that he is the sponsor of the bill doing some of what they want. He can summarize all he did for veterans and explain the veterans plan he ran on in 2004 and update it to whatever his current view is. (Their letter to the Senator was far ruder than anything he said about Bush) He can get this information out at least to his list even if the American Legion ignore it.

Re-reading this, I am reassured. If a math person from the Midwest(me), can see ways to diminish the negatives on this, a Senator who is quite skilled in diplomacy who is known to be introspective and as honest with himself as he is with others has likely already thought of far better ways to build bridges. He didn't get where he is because the media wanted him to be there. Trying to step back and think about it and seeing that there look to be solutions is the only way I've ever been able to deal with things that upset me. So, at the risk of sounding either presumptuous or stupid, I'm posting this message.

As to Hillary, I'll forgive her for her Kerry comment if I see that she called Lieberman's far worse comments "inappropriate".

[wisteria]

5. No, because I am it that kind of mood. He will come back stronger

than ever. F*ck the wing of the party that supports that witch and acts like they are still afraid to stand up to this administration and back one of their own.

[Firespirit]

8. If something like this discouraged him from pursuing his dream...

...I'd have to seriously reconsider whether he was, in fact, tough enough to make another run.

But I know John Kerry. He's tough enough. This sort of thing just makes him angry and determined.

[wisteria]

10. It makes me more angry and determined too. n/t

[zann725]

21. I still believe it IS his destiny (to be Prez). So this so-called "botch"

(in the long-run), should strengthen his resolve, force him to toughen his presentation...and perhaps reveal some hidden "Aces" of info (against Chimpy & Admin) that he would've otherwise kept hidden, as he has for years...i.e....BCCI, and the '04 election theft.

The Powers-that-Be (even in the Dem party) might also prefer Kerry out of the limelight/campaign trail...since he IS a "Wild Card"... compared to the likes of Hilary or Obama.

But the bottom-line here is what the steely-eyed gaze of Kerry really WANTS here.

That, and Destiny. I firmly believe he's "the Man" for the job. And that HE knows it without a doubt. The mis-understanding of his recent comment must be particularly devastating.

We need to let him know our support...perhaps with the phrase that comforted him so during the late 2004 campaign, that we STILL "have his back."

[MBS]

22. I totally agree

When I first heard Kerry speak (at a Hardball interview in Oct 2003), I was just overwhelmed with the thought that this man was born to be president. I remember thinking to myself, in astonishment: "This guy is the Real Thing."
It's so obvious to me; it drives me nuts tto meet people who don't get it. (Yet ). Wouldn't it be nice, for ONCE in my life, to have the best man win? If JK runs (and please, John, do run), I will work my tail off for him.

[JanusAscending]

25. I sooo love the way you think !!!

If you were a man, I'd marry you, 'cause I think we are either "soul mates" or "kindred spirits"!! This IS HIS DESTINY!! no question about it!:hi:

[zann725]

27. Thank you. Now let all us kindred spirits begin focusing, visualizing...working to make Prez JK

a reality.

Last night's Primary resulrs were an excellent "sign." And that 'sign' is "GO" for JK to win '08. No more putting Hilary or Obama up front. JK's the 'Man' for the job.

[wildflowergardener]

13. Hmm

I can't answer. I would say alot may be based on the outcome of this election. I would say if the democrats win big it will not make a bit of difference. He can't be blamed on blowing things for the democrats then (not that I think he is either way)

2 years is a long time also - people have short memories.

Meg

[sandnsea]

16. May delay his announcement

I think it will mostly depend on what he does after Tuesday. I can't really decide the best approach. Come back out fighting the media. Take on the smear machine. Just get back to work. I don't know. There still seems to be too much of the country that doesn't understand how they're being manipulated and it is so destructive. This election should not be close anywhere.

And for those who say a piece of toast should have been able to beat George Bush - well he's in even WORSE position now and we're still having trouble beating him.

[wisteria]

19. Good point about trouble beating Bush! Media is a powerful thing.

That is why Clinton gets press. The Clinton's formulated the idea and Bush capitalized on it.

[mloutre]

20. well, I should certainly hope it *would*...

...which is not to say that it should make or break his decision either way, of course. But if he's examining the issue in practical, pragmatic terms -- and I think we all agree that it is his intent to do so -- then he is looking at all of the possible factors and giving each of them appropriate weight in his reckonings.


it's his call and I'm pro-choice about it too,
Otter

[karynnj]

23. Wise comment, Otter

I trust and respect any choice that Senator Kerry makes on this. It's clear that this shows how hard it will be. I've watched enough campaign speeches that I have seen errors of this magnitude in almost all of them. Bush, who I can't watch for more than about 2 minutes because it hurts my stomach, heart and brain, constantly makes comments that if taken literally would be devasting.

What bothers me is that the media is intentionally referring to it as commenting on the intelligence of the troops which NEVER was a logical legitimate description even of the misspoken words. This does show that beyond never getting a break, he will be hit even if something can be twisted to look bad. Seriously, would anyone else with Kerry's service record, Senate record on Veterans issues and all his comments over his Senate career - been treated like this.

At any rate, no matter what he decides for 2008 - President, Senator or leaving public service - I support him 100% as the man who with his policy brilliance and integrity is the best person we have had in government during my livetime.

[_dynamicdems]

24. It could actually help him should he decide to run.

Even Republicans I know are saying that twisting his comment and blowing it up into a big story was a disgrace. My nephew voted for Bush but was so disgusted by the baseless attack on Kerry that he might be among our newest Democrats. Everyone I talk to, even people I've never met before, see the attacks on Kerry as lame and desperate. This is making people further disgusted with Bush, but it is also giving them a chance to compare the two. Kerry looked damn good on television last week. For starters: Kerry looked sane. Bush looked like a raving lunatic. And JK also looked quite presidential.

So I don't think this will hurt Kerry should he decide to run. As to how it will affect his decision, only time will tell.

[cadmium]

26. The effect will diminish as the congressional season moves on.

There will be Senate bills/hearings/ speeches. If he runs and gets to the debates all bets can be off.

I hope it does not hinder him from making jokes. I think we are the only ones who know he is actually funny.