When all is said and done, it's about us.

[TayTay]

Senator Kerry had a bad, 'it's about us' moment last week. The remarks made, unfairly, were twisted into a slam on the troops. That made it 'about us' but in a bad way. No amount of parsing the sentences and explanations and stuff is going to change that. It was what it was. (We got played. It happens.)

Sen. Kerry is one of the few voices making positive 'it's about us' comments in all his speeches. The way back out of this is do more of that. It's about us, it's about looking at your kids and saying that you don't think there is any noble cause and that you don't want them dying for nothing. It's about families that have to endure endless deployments to Iraq because this Admin blundered and didn't have the number of troops needed to sustain a long-term occupation. It's about no funding for veterans who come home with wounds to the body, mind and soul. It's about us.

There have been high and low arguments about this, that I just don't care about. I know what happened, there was a slip of the tongue and it became a chance for the RWers and their lying apologists to say that 'he doesn't care about you.' I also know this is a lie. You counter it by making the arguments no one else is, by talking about the troops, their families, what this country owes them and what this war is doing to us.

The rest is so much noise. You can't repair the past, but you can work toward the future.

[beachmom]

1. Yes, and well said.

I do feel like there were two stories: 1) Kerry messed up delivering that line and 2) The Right took it and lied saying it was about the troops. Story #1 hurts really bad, because the video spliced his worst moment out of thousands of fantastic moments (like the Dissent speech) and projected THAT to the world. I thought him getting ignored was the worst; now I know that there are worse things than being invisible. Story #2 is simply about the evil discourse our politics and media have become. I'm particularly demoralized about the media -- call me naive, but I just don't understand why journalists didn't do their job (to be fair, some did, but vastly more didn't). Just get the facts, guys, don't spin it. After this election, I do want to know what the media knew and when did they know it (who had the original script of the speech, did the Kerry staff get the info out fast about what the line was supposed to be to every major media outlet?). Because the public was done a horrible service in the coverage of this story.

Yes, it is about us. Governor Kaine gave a great speech yesterday to us volunteers. He said gaining the power in the Congress was NOT what it was about. It is and always will be about the issues like the minimum wage, like a plan in Iraq, and so on. It's the issues not simply saying "we control the House". That's the only thing it can be about.

[Mass]

3. Story #2 is what matters because it will repeat again and again and again.

As for the text of the speech, contrarely to what the media say, it was distributed before the speech and when the story broke out (Tuesday morning). But they need to cover their distortion by more distortion. The correct lines were reported by CNN on Tuesday morning!

[karynnj]

14. Nice analysis

On number 2 - it looks like it might actually backfire from the polls taken this weekend. It would be great if this causes a surge of revulsion for all these Republican tactics.

You are right that 1 hurts because it emphasizes one bad moment. Because of what happened the fact that it could have gone almost unnoticed if the entire event were viewed by someone who didn't know the RW story, is irrelevant. Although Kerry was NOT error prone in 2004 - he wasn't error free (he's actually a human)- and opponents will string this with the few 2004 examples. But there also are many very good interviews and the 2004 debates where he was great.

He will have to highlight everything he's done for veterans in a better way than he has done so far. If he succeeds in doing it, it may make his work for veterans better. Kerry could possibly use this as a way to humanize himself to some.

[ProSense]

2. Unfortunately,

we're going to have to find a way to deal with noise. Ignoring it doesn't help. Noise led to a war. This week, the RW proved again that they can make noise and shape perception. No matter how much quiet resolve and conviction one has, if the noise isn't countered, it gets louder until it drowns out all else.

This is a problem for the future, beginning right now!

[blm]

5. Cover all the bases. Those with the stomach for it do what we must, without

losing our own humanity.

I'm glad about much of the response - and according to my PMs I have reason to be glad.

I wish I was as temperate as JK and many of you, but I'm not wired that way. I respond naturally by stripping down rhetoric to its most basic meaning and showing it back for what it is and always is - - a LIE.

[ProSense]

8. Some of the same people

who claimed he didn't fight the Swift Liars, seem to be faulting him for standing up to the RW! It's opportunistic bullshit and they know it. It doesn't matter when they do it, Democrats need to put up a united front against this BS and stop giving the RW room to breathe. The media switched from Bush's and McCain's call for an apology, to the timid Democrats. They gave the media the fuel to turn up the heat! And all for a lie, to force an apology for something that wasn't said! Disgusting!

[TayTay]

4. What Riverbend said:

Why it isn't over, it's again, just ongoing.

"A final note. I just read somewhere that some of the families of dead American soldiers are visiting the Iraqi north to see ‘what their sons and daughters died for’. If that’s the goal of the visit, then, “Ladies and gentlemen- to your right is the Iraqi Ministry of Oil, to your left is the Dawry refinery… Each of you get this, a gift bag containing a 3 by 3 color poster of Al Sayid Muqtada Al Sadr (Long May He Live And Prosper), an Ayatollah Sistani t-shirt and a map of Iran, to scale, redrawn with the Islamic Republic of South Iraq. Also… Hey you! You- the female in the back- is that a lock of hair I see? Cover it up or stay home.”

And that is what they died for. "

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

There are few voices in the US Senate talking about this. There are plenty of people out talking now about how we have to triangulate and obscure our differences with the Rethugs and try and split the difference with them on issues so that we can all live in one big happy family and all get along.

We can't get along. There is this big fat, f*cking war in the way in which people are dying for a friggin lie. Maybe that goes away for the election. Maybe those 'voices of moderation' try to say that the very act of 'splitting the differences' with the Rethugs is what won Congress for the Democrats.

But after election day, there is this big fat f*cking war that we have to deal with. There is no 'noble cause,' there is no reason to suck up to Bush and try and split the difference with him over who gets to die for a hopeless cause and there is no way out of talking about it. You can't triangulate your way out of the dying, the hopelessness and the despair. You can't go before the world and say, but I believe in moderation and in not rocking the boat. The boat has capsized.

I still want the person who knows that. Because precious few seem to.

Oh, and what US Senator John Kerry (D-MA) said in April when he was attacked on the floor of the Senate by Sen. Allard from Colorado. Cuz that guy knows what is and isn't real in the world:

"Do you want to run down the list of things that are egregious with respect to this war? I will tell you one thing that I know well, and I will remind the Senator from Colorado that half the names on the wall of that Vietnam Memorial--half the names on that wall--became names of the dead after our leaders knew our policy wouldn't work.

Our policy isn't working today, and I am not going to be a Senator who adds to the next wall, wherever it may be, that honors those who served in Iraq so that once again people can point to a bunch of names that are added after we knew something was wrong. We have a bigger responsibility than that."

April 6, 2006 -- From the Congressional Record.

I'm not going to be a Senator who adds to the next wall. Yeah, what he said.

[wisteria]

11. Check this out- how can you help those that don't want to be helped?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15582948/

Soldiers say Iraq pullout would be devastating
Leaving fledgling state could help insurgents, betray Iraqis, troops warn


I realize this is pre-election spin and they only interview the career military men, but still.....

[wisteria]

6. I think #2 is most important for Kerry, he needs positive PR to counter

with. We on the blogs are one aspect, but he needs someone out their tooting his horn as much as possible. I don't care if he has to pay someone off in the media to do this, but we said this before- he needs to not handle this himself. If he didn't already have a reputation (unfairly) as being against the troops, this wouldn't of stuck or possibly even been considered. Everything he does for the troops, every trip he makes needs to get out into the main stream. Maybe he needs to say nothing more about them than they are proud and brave and doing a fantastic job. Remember the comment on a Sunday show about him explaining how our soldiers are perceived as frightening by the ordinary Iraq citizens? Remember how that was exploited and used against him. The republicans do not want to give up this ground and they watch for ever statement Kerry makes and try to play it for all it is worth. Give it back to them. Let him go on Fox and talk up veterans legislation, show how committed he is and how concerned he is for their well being. Saturate, saturate, saturate.
He can't do an effective job for us, until he does an effective job for himself first.

Other than that, yeah, we were played and Senator Kerry had warned us it was going to get worse. Apparently, he was more concerned about us and not about himself- he got burned, big time.

[TayTay]

7. He stood up and said, this War is immoral

and wrong. It is not just a bad decision, it is not just bad people in command and it is not just a failed policy. It is immoral.

It is immoral.

Think about that for a minute. There is no counter to that. Hillary doesn't have one, neither do the other Vichy-Dems. The Repubs don't have one and don't care.

It is immoral.

This is 'check' on the political game board. It is not 'check-mate.' The board is reset on Nov 8th. And this damn war is still immoral.

What stronger voice or opinion is there? Kerry knows this. He is under constant attack because he speaks about this in moral terms and asks people to consider what we are doing, as a nation, in Iraq. That is what you do after the election. You talk about Iraq. The haters will hate you, no matter what. There is no counter to that. They hate, it's what they do.

Again, it's check, not check-mate. Stand up and say it again. And again. And again. And again. Because that is the only way it's not about you. It's about 'us.' This is what brave men and women of character and integrity do. They take the hit, get back up, dust themselves off and go back to work. Becuase it's not about them. It's about us. And we have to get out of this war before we destroy our very souls.

[wisteria]

9. He can't help us if they don't allow him to lead and they refuse to

allow him to do this.They don't even want to stand by him. You can't change anything, if you can't get people to stand behind you and follow your lead. He just keeps on getting kicked and his reputation drug through the mud.he needs some friends. But, absolutely, he is morally right, it would be nice to see, say some religious support backing him up. Right now, it is like he is radioactive.

[TayTay]

10. That's because we have an artificial stop in the election

That is the 'check.'

That is an artificial stop. On Nov 8th, it restarts. The Dems have to start talking about something.

Then the conversation begins on exactly what happened on 11/7 and what does it mean.

What, by the way, does it mean?

[wisteria]

15. Well with this bunch in the senate right now, I don't think we can

really expect much. I am beginning to think they still will not stand up to Bush about this war. The only thing they will offer is the Reid/levin amendment- which isn't very effective. It is a good sounding, empty, limp amendment offering up more of the same in Iraq but with a request to bring troops home eventually. I am telling you, if Dem's don't delivery, they are going to be out of power again is no time at all.

[ProSense]

12. You know, this is where the

pundits and media need to be smacked down. They continue to use the media to create the perception that something is more popuplar than it is. It's like the call for withdrawal, they kept insisting, and now are ignoring that the majority want a timetable for withdrawal. Why aren't they writing stories about that everyday? Why aren't they drowning out the Bush administration's noise with the noise from the majority of the public. The media decided to drown out damning news about Iraq with a BS smear on Kerry, a smear that most people didn't buy into. As this polls shows, only the opportunists and Republican supporters did:




People who didn't buy into it:

78% of all voters
62% of Republicans
93% of Democrats (and 8%-11% of Democrats voted for Bush in the past two elections)
79% of Independents

This from CNN this morning:

Democrats hold a 20 percentage-point advantage -- 58 percent to 38 percent -- over Republicans among likely voters in the survey released Monday morning. The Democratic advantage was 11 percentage points -- 53 percent to 42 percent -- in a poll a week ago.

[wisteria]

16. Thanks for some good news. Perhaps, this says something about

the media and the true influence they have on the public.

[ProSense]

17. Well,

you simply must see the latest comment in the question thread! OMG!

LOL!

[wisteria]

18. Your right, OMG! Wonderful. n/t

[beachmom]

19. But, Karen Tumulty from Time magazine on the Diane Rehm Show

Said today that it had a MAJOR impact on the electorate, because 18% of Independents said the remark made them not want to vote for Democrats. WTF? 18%? Independents are like a subset of all voters -- some conservative, some truly moderate, and some more liberal. Like Bill O'Reilly, who is "independent", do you really think 18% were going to vote anything but Republican? Since when is 18% a MAJOR impact? Or maybe I'm just stupid. But if 92% said it had NO impact, then doesn't that mean it flopped?

[TayTay]

20. Yup.

It is a non-issue, except for those who hated him before the remark.

[Democrafty]

22. Maybe 18% is a huge figure

in a country where 51% is a mandate?

;)

[karynnj]

26. It would be a huge number if it were real

The problem with any poll data is that it depends on the truthfulness of those who answer the question. Many who simply dislike Kerry will answer this way - and it's possible they would never have voted for a Democrat ever or even that they intend to vote for a Democrat - and will but are mad at Kerry.

If they really wanted to investigate this - they could go back to the last sample used and ask questions on who they intend to vote for then ask the various Kerry questions. This would actually be fascinating as you have the before and after AND what they say they would do.
Businesses that use questionaires to determine customer reactions know that they need to find ways to calibrate the reported estimates to a more likely estimate.

[wisteria]

23. Hey send her the poll when you get time. n/t

[beachmom]

24. No, she cited the poll, acting like 18% of Independents was

a MAJOR impact. Since when has 18% of a subset ever meant much of anything? And there is a segment of Independents who are conservative but don't feel comfortable being in the Republican party; that doesn't make them less conservative.

Luckily somebody sent an e-mail saying what I said -- that those people were never going to vote Democratic in the first place.

[blm]

25. Tunulty is a horrid person and a worse reporter.

And actually, many Republicans right now are identifying themselves as Independents because they're ashamed to SAY they're Republicans.

[beachmom]

27. Here's a link to the show (I think) -- my soundcard isn't working

and I'm not sure if you can listen. But it's just godawful MSM crapola. Apparently, they also tried to play down the dirty trick robocalls by Republicans acting like both sides did it:

http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/06/11/06.php#11511

Blog post about the robocalls:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/showdown06/archives/individual/2006_11/010029.php


It's just so annoying listening to these "authoritative" people, who don't know jack shit.

[ProSense]

13. The question:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2931037&mesg_id=2931037

[europegirl4jfk]

21. Right! It's about you! And I wish you luck, my American friends!

I know you will all be busy the next 30 hours or so to GOTV and I wish you and the Dem candidates all the best to get your country back! And the fight won't be over on Wednesday but it will only start then. Tay, I think you are right not to care about the noise machine. Just go on and fight as JK surely will. I'm still convinced that it won't have any impact at all. Kerry is way ahead of a lot of other Democrats on Iraq and other issues. But the American people are coming around and who knows if by 2008 he won't be the one speaking for all of them. Keep the good fight on! I can't work with you guys from over here but be assured that morally I'm with you all and with JK. :grouphug: