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A message for Hillary, nameless party "strategists," and other enablers of swiftboating:

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Firespirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 03:14 PM
Original message
A message for Hillary, nameless party "strategists," and other enablers of swiftboating:
This isn't over.

Our party won back Congress this week, no thanks to you. No thanks to you who laughed at the "nutroots," as you condescendingly call the Internet-surfing grassroots activists of the party. No thanks to you who thought getting the House would be hard and didn't think we had a prayer of taking back the Senate -- and who endorsed sacrificial lamb candidates to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Now you want to http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/10/135814/54">throw out Dean and replace him with Harold Ford, because -- in your twisted version of reality -- the 50-state strategy cost us seats. No, as you know quite well, YOUR plan would have cost us not just seats, but control of Congress. You would have ceded Montana and Virginia as "safe Republican seats." And with all due respect to Mr. Ford, he has no business as DNC chairman. He is a legislator, not a strategist. The best place for him would be back in Congress in 2009.

We also won't let you or your pals in the media hang John Kerry out to dry. He didn't sacrifice himself for the party. He stepped aside for the party in the final week, because YOU refused to stand by him against the right-wing swiftboating (just as in 2004). We will not forget the early fundraising that Kerry did for candidates such as Webb, bringing them to the attention of the DSCC, which was more than content to sit twiddling its fingers and smear Kerry for not giving his money to the organization. We will not forget the support that Kerry gave to candidates like Sestak, Murphy, Shea-Porter, and Hodes -- and yes, Tammy Duckworth, who is very likely to stage a comeback just like Kerry.

Hillary -- we definitely will not forget how you, who coasted to reelection with two-thirds of the vote, still saw fit to attack Kerry over what you knew perfectly well was a mangled joke. Pronoungate, if you will -- that captures the stupidity and vapidity of the incident. The blogosphere isn't ready to forgive you over it, especially now that your flacks are painting targets on anyone who isn't explicitly in your camp. The joke incident is over. The sole reason why the simpering media are saying it took Kerry out of the running is because they think, or want to think, that he will choose not to run now. I wouldn't be surprised if your flacks fed them that very line. But you see, that isn't how John Kerry operates. He has been slimed repeatedly, and he always comes back. The original swiftboating of 2004 is now regarded with contempt by everyone except for Freepers. Your dirty act will go the same way.

And here's something else. You hoped that he would tuck his tail in between his legs and go away. Well, he won't -- so if you want to run against him based on the joke, you'll have to do your own smearing now. The Republican Party will not aid and abet you, because they have a primary of their own and far bigger problems than taking out John Kerry. I'll grant that the media will likely take every opportunity possible to remind people of the joke, but that won't last long -- because no one will want to hear about it. This will be an issue-based primary, no matter how much you want to make it something else. The American people spoke last Tuesday that they are fed up with smearing, mud, and personality-based politics. They want real ideas and real solutions, and you, Hillary, ain't got those. You want to run against Kerry's slip of the tongue, then YOU will have to bring it up.

Now that the election is over, it would seem that you are ready to fight for the presidential nomination. The Clinton/DLC wing versus the anti-Clinton/DLC wing. All right. We knew it was coming. We aren't surprised. So you think (mistakenly) that you've taken out Kerry, one leader of the people's wing, and now you're after Dean. Well, you'll be proven wrong about destroying Kerry, and if you try to dump Dean after the biggest blowout in recent history, a blowout in which you were CONSISTENTLY on the wrong side, you'll be laughed off the field. The party did not lose control of a single Democrat-held seat at the Congressional or gubernatorial level. Not one. We pitched a shutout. And if you try to throw out Dean because you want to force your candidate upon the party, people will think, "Why should the party get rid of Dean? He led it to a landslide!"

You want a war?

BRING IT ON.

I dare you.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Righteous anger is a beautiful thing.
Well said.

I was just reading about Carville here: http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=56467

What a putz. It brought to mind that depression era song, Which Side Are You On?.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. BRING IT ON! Absolutely. Great rant! Great!!!!!!n/t
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. Post this out in DU-P. People are pissing mad about what is going on. n/t
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Apparently the story is on every cable station
that Dean should step down. This puts things in perspective - Dean did everything right and is STILL being attacked. Can we have our party back? Please.
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Firespirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I put it here
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Not good enough - Needs its own thread. People need waking up.
.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. more reason Kerry and anyone else who wants to should run
if they don't they shouldn't do it based on whether Hillary will run. it would just be giving in to them.
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Firespirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I'll go one step further than that
That group will fuck the party for Hillary without giving it a second thought, and it is the DUTY of others to stop her.

Here, not even a full damn week after this blowout election, that bald asshole is already pissing all over the people who made it possible and sowing discord -- to prop up Hillary.

They are truly the Republican wing of our party. They will screw anyone and anything to promote her.

It is the patriotic duty of Kerry, Edwards, Obama, etc., to stand up to it.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I'm not so sure Edwards will side against the Clintons. They MIGHT use him to run
interference for them.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Aside from being incredibly nasty, what are they thinking of
I live in a pretty red NJ suburb. Many people I've met doing GOTV etc was pulled in by Dean or Kerry. I seriously doubt any of them will support Hillary in the primary because of this. No one active enough to be working could possibly not know that Carville is a Clinton flunky.

At a Democratic fund raiser, I heard NO real enthusiasm for Hillary - though the concensus was that Bill Clinton was a superstar, but sleasy. The people I heard all respected Kerry - the only negative was he didn't win. (One woman after others were admitting that Clinton really was sleasy, said in 2004, she knew Kerry wasn't before she knew anything about him - because Teresa Heinz wouldn't have married him. (She was a former Republican)

I would assume that between the people who like Dean and those who respect Kerry (even if they don't support him), these 2 attacks in close succesion will re-inforce the negative side of the Clintons.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. Just amazing
I've been busy at work, away from the news, so hadn't heard about this. Oh, God.

In the 2004 primary, I was definitely NOT a Deaniac, and was actually alarmed at the thought that he might be the Dem presidential nominee. HOWEVER, I think that Dean is doing an excellent job at the DNC, and that he and his 50-state strategy deserves huge portion of the credit for the Dem success in 2006, especiallly for wins in red or purple states, especially in the Rocky Mountain West. He's been good on the talk shows--measured but forceful. He's doing a great job, and he's way better than Terry McAwful.
And he would be WAY WAY WAY better than Harold Ford.


The idea that the DLC and the Clintonistas would even consider floating this idea is just infuriating. Especially since, as you said, Hillary did little to nothing to help in the 2006 election.

You bet. Bring it on.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Excellent rant!
:applause: :applause:

BRING IT ON!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. Haha!
I am just amazed at their audacity. I thought they'd at least wait until after Thanksgiving to ramp up whatever plans they had to take over the party. Good rant and you got it - Bring It On!!!
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cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. We NEED to back up Dean unless he says otherwise.
They show themselves for who they are now.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
14. John Kerry knows that we need the 50 State Strategy
As I posted back in March, this concept was explained, in detail, to me at the Democratic Campaign Institute conference in Worcester, MA. The presentation was done by Dean people now working for the DNC and by Kerry Staffers.

Deval Patrick used this strategy in Massachusetts this year and won a landslide and took back the Governorship after 16 years. New Hampshire, and especially the Carol Shea-Porter campaign used a variation of this and won The Upset win of '06. This is what we have to do going forward.

For review: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=273&topic_id=74434&mesg_id=74434
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Wow!
Go Deval! I like the 50 state strategy BTW.:bounce:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
17. This statement by Carville is outrageous:
The praise from Mr. Romney was echoed in an unsolicited call from James Carville, a veteran Democratic operative who is married to Mary Matalin, a veteran Republican strategist.

“The R.N.C. did a better job than the D.N.C. this year,” Mr. Carville said, referring to the Democratic National Committee.

He said Democrats succeeded because the party’s House and Senate campaign committees compensated for what Mr. Carville described as the shortcomings of the Democratic National Committee, allowing the party to take advantage of a wave of voter resentment directed at Republicans.

“When one of these things hit, it doesn’t matter who the party chairman is,” he said.



:wtf:
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. "what Mr. Carville described as the shortcomings of the Democratic National Committee"
Did he anywhere descrobe what these shortcomings were? I am sure it was not perfect, but the result is OUTSTANDING.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Also, as I understand it, both of our committee's raised more money
than their counterpart Republicans so there was more to disperse.
They don't like it because Dean has a strategy different from theirs that takes money and long term planning before the final positive results can be known. Actually, this has been the same complaint all along. They either don't care about the grassroots efforts efforts or don't mind it as long as it isn't taking money away from a strategy they see as being more effective.
IMO, Dean has to win this one. Carville and his ilk don't see reaching and connecting with the people as a strategy to win. They think-like Hillary- that all you have to do is throw more money into a race than the other person, bombarding the airwaves and media with commercials,ads and literature and your candidates name is the one the public will remember going to vote. This is not a winning strategy for long term success and dedication to our party.
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Firespirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. That absolutely nails it
Excellent analysis. Carville and his type regard voters as an item to be purchased in bulk, not as individual human beings. They are living in the past. This election was a referendum on politicians who are seen as disconnected from the people, and evidently they're too blinded by the Hillary pushing to see that.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. This is interesting:
Edited on Sat Nov-11-06 02:57 PM by ProSense
RJ Eskow
11.11.2006

What a Mandate! Popular Vote For Senate Was 55%-43% Democratic

Look how easily the media manipulates everyone's perceptions, including our own. An hour of vote tabulation reveals a stunning fact: Democrats won the popular vote for the Senate by an overwhelming 12.6% margin - 55%/42.4%. "Bipartisanship" and "compromise" are today's buzzwords, when the phrase on everybody's lips should be "mandate for dramatic change" - especially in Iraq.


Read on
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GRLMGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. That pretty much sums it up
Never did I think I could dislike Hillary Clinton as much as I do.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
23. Here's what Dean
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. bravo, Howard Dean
Dean to Chris Wallace: "No, no, no. John Kerry did a lot for this party while we were trying to win back. He campaigned like crazy, raised a bunch of money, gave us a bunch of money. I'm not going to go after John Kerry, and I don't think most Democrats will either."
Thank you, Howard Dean and Bob Casey, for having the class and good sense to give Sen. Kerry the credit, and thanks, that he so abundantly deserves. This is the kind of incident that reveals character, and Dean and Casey passed the test. As for McCain and Hillary. . .there are no civil words to describe my feelings about their character.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. the whole interview with Dean was good
See Prosense's link at #23. He also fended off Wallace's attempts to goad him on Carville and Ford, etc etc. It's worth reading
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Firespirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Good for Dean!
I think Dean is over 2004 now. I hope all of his supporters will follow. I am ready to extend the hand of friendship to the Dean supporters. With very few exceptions, we share their goal of giving the Party back to the people. That is at complete odds with the Clinton/Carville/DLC agenda.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Well, we do all need to unite -these of us for the people, because
we form a more powerful voice that way.
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I'm glad I backed Dean this week
Things sure have changed from the old Dean vs. Kerry blog wars.

I had a post on Dean a couple of days ago:

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=583
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
29. At least Kerry was talking about Bush!
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