"Tis the season...

[whometense]

Anyone see John Edwards on the Daily Show just now?

[JI7]

1. no

what happened ?

[whometense]

2. Jon Stewart tried to trap him

(in a comedy kind of way) into saying something mean about Kerry, but Edwards wouldn't bite. He did say "I like John Kerry" at one point, but it was kind of lost in a bunch of crosstalk.

I know a lot of people here like him a lot, so I don't want to be negative. Let me just say that John Edwards has never been my idea of a deep thinker.

[beachmom]

3. I just watched it. You described it well. I'm feeling thin skinned

tonight because that whole exchange struck me as cruel (and, really, the blame goes to Jon Stewart). I suppose it was no big deal in the scheme of things; just sometimes this sort of thing gets to me more than others. Perhaps it's the pile on: last Friday night, the entire panel on Washington Week laughed even harder than Jon Stewart about John Kerry. Then you see all the riff raff by so many people who hate Kerry on the internet, and then, finally, you have this stupid crappy gossip piece on that ABCNews site. It's just out of control; people need to cut it out!

John Edwards didn't bite, you're right. But it's not like he impressed me so that he would even get onto my presidential list. I think he should have stayed a senator and kept his seat -- he would have done so much more good there working against poverty, and he would have gained Webb as an ally on economic fairness.

[whometense]

4. I feel your pain -

seriously, I do. I feel pretty cranky and thin skinned as well. Enough! Jon Stewart certainly instigated, and Edwards is nothing if not the perfect gentleman. But he didn't exactly leap to defend Kerry, either. I just got the same impression of him I always have = pretty, well-mannered, smooth, and something of a blank slate onto whom people can reflect their own ideas.

[beachmom]

5. You're right -- he could have said:

oh, for crying out loud, it was a botched joke; we've all made gaffes and this whole thing has taken too much time already.

Unfortunately, he's running in '08 and won't defend his friend. Hope JK still has that dog in DC (didn't he get a puppy at some point?) so he can have one real friend (Truman wisdom).

[Democrafty]

6. How did Senator Wyden put it?

'My soul cries out for something more dignified?'

I've been thinking about this for weeks. When can we get back to talking about things that are important?

[karynnj]

7. The John Kerry web site says he has 4 dogs

which is 2 more than I though. (My youngest wonders why they don't have the dogs' names. The scary thing is that she can vote in 2008.)

(Not to mention that his family and his closest friends seems to have always been there 100% for him. His daughters' obvious love and respect for him is something anyone would envy.)

Do you think this is because he has not yet agreed not to run? - so, in essence, they are punishing him. It would seem that if they want to convince him to choose being powerful in the Senate - this is not a good way to do it.

[Democrafty]

8. Wow, did they multiply???

They should totally have their names on the website! You can tell a lot about a person by what they name their pets.

[karynnj]

10. It could get him my kid's vote - that was the thing that most

interested her. I was surprised because I knew of 2 - but the website said 4.

[whometense]

11. Here's one:

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/UndertheDome/062805.html


(A schnauzer, not the schnauzer!

Sen. Kerry finds a new best friend

What could ease the sting of a presidential election defeat better than wet, sloppy kisses and spirited games of fetch?

Probably not much. Enter Stache, Sen. John Kerry’s (D-Mass.) new schnauzer puppy. Thanks to the Boston Herald, we learn that the pup’s name comes from “the pronounced hair on his face.”

Stache joins Kim, the would-be first couple’s German shepherd, in what must be an enviable lifestyle for a pooch. He was spotted by Herald sources on the Kerry speedboat in Nantucket.

Said Kerry spokesman David Wade, “Stache sleeps half the day, barks just to hear himself speak and loves to shake hands, so he fits in perfectly in politics.”

I believe he also has a German Shepherd who lives at THK's place in Pittsburgh.

[karynnj]

13. Thanks, Whome - now I can tell her 2 of the names

Stache and Kim

[wisteria]

14. Re: Kerry and the ridicule.

One, I think there is an effort to marginalize him.
Two, those who are continuing this are behaving like the bullies we knew at school. They figure he is down, so why not kick him around some more. He can't get back at them and no one will defend him in leadership because they are all DLC.
Actually, this all sucks. This is the man who should be President. He should be afforded some respect. Look at the clown that was elected President, he has nearly destroyed our reputation around the world, started two wars that are still unfinished and his is given more consideration that Senator Kerry. All because Kerry flubbed a line.

[karynnj]

18. I assume this will pass when Kerry

chooses not to run, loses the nomination or gets the nomination and wins. As they themselves say, Kerry is not funny - he is a very serious man.

John Kerry has been in the public eye for 3 and a half decades and has been a serious, committed truth teller and public servant for that entire time. That still is true. Being true to yourself and values will often lead to periods where you are treated poorly - when others want to hide things under the rug.

I liked Kerry's comment after (In Esquire ??) in response to a question on dealing with the loss - that he had his family and his integrity. As to his family - what parent would not be intensely happy to have both kids speak of him (or her) with such affection, love and respect. As to integrity, how many people have the record of itegrity over their entire life at age 62. Any politicians? I'm not sure even Jimmy Carter does.

Reread the Pepperdine speech, Kerry is a very religious man (in the true sense of the word). The passage he chose to speak of the relationship between his faith and life time of service includes Jesus telling the disciples that they won't always be honored and will be attacked.

It would be great if the Senator was honored for who he is and if he wins the presidency, but the truth of who he is is known - and it may be that some who knock him now do so only because they don't want him to run. Consider that although McGovern had a devastating loss, he is better reguarded than Nixon.

[SouthernBelle82]

27. It's really sad

:( I was also surprised that he didn't have the Kerry's, or at least John, in his book. I thought they were friends.

[ginnyinWI]

9. He was on CBS this morning too

I never watch morning shows but was up early today and noticed it. He's the same as two years ago--the All American Boy. Smart, but I just don't connect to him. Kind of like I feel about Bill Clinton.

[Mass]

12. He has a new book, so we will see him a lot in the next few days.

However, he rarely has anything original to say, so I would suggest that you skip the interviews after the first one, as they all will be the same.

[ginnyinWI]

17. I agree

Like his stump speech during the campaign. If I have to hear about the mill one more time... ;)

[TayTay]

15. I haven't watched it yet.

Looks like I just delete it without viewing it. Sounds like it's not worth it.

Why doesn't Sen. Kerry just go on that show after Thanksgiving and get it over with? Face the music as it were and move on.

[beachmom]

16. Well, he could deal with it two ways

One way, which is what he seems to be doing now, is put his head down, and get to work in the Senate. After 6 months, other dramas will have replaced the botched joke.

The second way is what you're suggesting. Just go on Jon Stewart or Letterman or wherever, and say -- okay, I screwed up, give it to me. Now can we all go back to work?



I'm not sure which is the best way to go. And I wonder if either strategy will work. The media TOTALLY has it in for him. And it's not even political; it's personal. I really think there is anger at him for losing. I certainly got that from the public editor of my paper (not that he said it, but you could sense it between the lines). How dare he screw up and allow Bush a second term? So now they just want to laugh him out of existence, but he's still in the Senate, still might run for prez.

Kinda weird the way Tweety was not in that crowd. He sensed the mean spiritedness and decided not to play ball.

[karynnj]

19. With many it may be personal - but not because they hate

or even dislike him. Shortly after the election Tay or one of the other MA people posted an editorial from the Berkshire Eagle that begged Kerry to follow Kennedy and become a power in the Senate rather than run again. It was BECAUSE they liked him and respected him - and the loss and the abuse hurt. For some reason, I felt far worse at the lies and smears against Kerry than I did against others.

Many may feel, like people on DU, that he is a very good, honorable, decent man, who is brilliant - but someone who is not good at the phony games that campaigning has become. If they are opinion leaders, you would think that holding both these ideas in their head at the same time - they would call the process into question. How can you defend a process that choses a "W" over 2 men of intelligence and integrity?

Notice that most serious (non-RW) people have concentrated on it reinforcing concerns about campaigning etc and have taken pains to completely dispute that he has ever been less than supportive to the troops and veterans. (In fact, that aspect of Kerry's biography has been confirmed more often than ever before.) They are saying he is a good person - but they are signalling that they think he is not a good enough politician to be President.

[TayTay]

22. You use what you got.

Sen. Kerry is a very strong man and one who has convictions. His pronouncements on Iraq are the best I have heard since 11/04. He needs to act on that. The reason he is getting so much shit lately from other Dems is because he is a strong and authentic voice on Iraq, on the futility of fighting over there in a civil war, on the rampant corruption that is evident in the contracting and on the absolute disgrace that this American foreign policy disaster has brought to this nation.

Sen. Kerry coudl quit right now and go live an easy life. He could retire and head some think tank or University and write his memoirs. That he chooses to continue to fight is because it is about something. You don't get the brickbats by going along with the popular kids. (That's what Lieberman is doing.)

I want that guy that told me this war is immoral. I want that guy that told me that we have to stop this because it is a blight on our nation. I want that guy that worries about 'our kids' over in Iraq and gets up every damn day thinking about how to get them out. I know that this will create enemies. So be, Senator, I got your back.

I hope the good and true Senator continues to raise hell. I don't give a damn if the entire Democratic Senate refuses to have lunch with him anymore. He is stronger than that and the moral indignation he harbors is stronger than that. Go get 'em sir, and let the chips fall where they may. Never, never, never give up. It matters to those whose lives you just might be saving.

As for the poeple who are trying to tell me that up is down and the American people wanted to go conservative in the last election and that things fall up, f*ck you and the horse you rode in on. I understand what this is about, and it ain't over. No one is giving up. We are not appeasers in this horrific game of chicken in Iraq. We go on and press the moral case. And screw the people, like Lieberman, who think they can get away with bamboozling the American people into thinking we are doing great things in Iraq. Bullshit.

[whometense]

23. Absolutely.

I agree with every word.

As an aside, some blogger - and I've forgotten who, unfortunately, brilliantly used this phrase in talking about Holy Joe: "F*ck you and the horse you schlepped in on."

:rofl:

[karynnj]

24. I agree completely

I assume that, if anything, he was more isolated when he fought back on BCCI. I assume that if people ate lunch with him then, it would have been only to push him to give in. His strength and the courage of his convictions then was amazing. (That was also before he was married to Teresa, so he has far more support now.)

I agree that he was hit because he was a strong voice. My point was an observation that some of the negative punditry did retain a level of respect for the Senator. I also think that "the joke" was simply a convienient devise for an attack that was coming anyway. (Look at "heyjohn" and the attack on Dean, who did an exceptional job.) The Clinton wing seems as willing to throw elbows as the Republicans.

I have no doubt that Kerry will continue to speak out. He was willing to speak out when it could hurt his future chances when he was 27 and with the Contras and BCCI. Now, he has nothing to lose by speaking out and a much to lose if he doesn't. In the wake of 2004, he said after 2004 that he had his integrity and his family. The statement shows the importance to him of his integrity - and it is that that makes him tell the truth in the way he does. He wouldn't be himself if he didn't speak out.

[whometense]

25. Teresa really is a gift for him.

She's so full of integrity herself, and so strong, that she is the perfect support system. I imagine that as long as he can go home to Teresa and feel her approval he can easily do without the fair weather lunch companions. And his duaghters. And Cam, Diana, and Peggy. And about a zillion devoted friends...not to meniton his two zillion devoted supporters.

No, I think he'll be okay with pissing off a few fellow senators who have no integrity at all.

For what profiteth a man that he gain the whole world but loseth his own soul?

[cadmium]

20. Bill O'Reilly also was willing to stick up for him. N/t

[wisteria]

21. It is not a rational person who would really be angry at Kerry for losing.

That is like blaming the victim of the crime for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. The blame is being displaced here. The people chose Bush, because through out our history, people have not voted out a war time president.Rove new this and capitalized on it. It is the people who brought into Rove's fears and the smears. And, it was our party that did a piss poor job of defending Kerry. For that, I blame Carville, the DLC and the Clinton's. They weren't to concerned about how Bush was destroying this country. At this point, Hillary wasn't even calling for changes. Nope, the Clinton's were more concerned about running in 08.

[MBS]

26. given the climate of fear & smear,

and the way people were still buying into the all 9-11 all-the-time campaign, and the 20+ year foundation of conservative conventional wisdom on which the Fear&SmearAdministration was built, it's a miracle that Kerry did as well as he did. Honestly, any other 2004 Dem. candidate would have done much worse than Kerry. People who assume that it was a snap to conquer this climate of fear, all by himself, must live in a blue bubble. If people were ready to get past their fears, or were awake (was it being scared that kept them asleep, or being asleep and/or scared that kept them from thinking straight?), Kerry would have won. Honestly, if people were awake, Bush would not only have lost , but would have lost big-time. It shouldn't even have been close. The outcome was NOT Kerry's fault, but the fault of the electorate (their gullibility to BushRoveCo lies, their ignorance, their indifference, their fears or some unhappy combination of all theses factors).

[wisteria]

28. yes, although I don't feel comfortable blaming the public entirely

because they only voted on what they believed to be the truth. The media should be damned for covering for Bush. They not only figured largely in Kerry's loss. They mislead the public as well. For this, people should have lost their trust in the main stream media.