Reid capitulated on Gates

[beachmom]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/14/politics/main2180049.shtml

Reid told The Associated Press that a top priority for the remainder of the lame-duck session will be confirming Robert Gates as defense secretary, succeeding Donald H. Rumsfeld. “The sooner we can move it forward the sooner we can get rid of Rumsfeld,” he said.





Considering what Webb has gone through, and how his win gave Reid the majority leader job, what a nice thank you -- f*** you, Webb, we're confirming Gates now.

Webb will now have to know who his friends are in the Senate, and it ain't capitulating Reid. That guy is so weak, it's just unbelievable. I'm not saying Gates shouldn't be confirmed necessarily, but the guy should be properly vetted; now he won't. Weak, weak, weak.

[Mass]

1. No surprise on this. Levin had same more or less the same thing

the day Gates was announced. Biden said Gates would be confirmed no problem as well.

Reid and Schumer do not want a fight on anything except the fights they choose. They definitively do not want a fight on national security. They never wanted one and the fight was forced on them during the campaign by people like Feingold and Kerry on one side, Tester and Webb on the other side.

I still have not seen anything from Kerry concerning Gates, but I would imagine this is because he is waiting for the hearings.

[TayTay]

2. Redi still hasn't learned the lesson

That you ahve to oppose these people, not bend over and give them what they want.

The good news is the Democrats won. The bad news is the Democrats won. Sigh!

[beachmom]

4. Yeah -- meet the new boss, same as the old boss

Frankly, maybe Hillary would be an improvement over Reid as majority leader. Nothing could be as bad as Reid. I'm looking to Pelosi for better leadership in the House, and for mavericks like Kerry, Feingold, and I'm really thinking Webb in the Senate for some spine, Tester on civil liberties stuff. All they have to do is pull a "1980s Kerry" and use a subcommittee or something to start, you know, OPPOSING.

[SouthernBelle82]

16. What would be my dream

is that Feingold becomes the majority leader since he has announced he won't run for president. I think Kerry knows this guy and all these events better than anyone else. He knows the connection. Why won't they listen to him? AH!

[sandnsea]

3. That's why I think Murtha is important

If we get Steny Hoyer, I'm afraid this is what the next two years are going to look like - over and over. It's going to be revolting and America is going to throw their hands up in complete despair.

Goddammit.

[wisteria]

5. Yep, and what the Republicans have been saying will be true, we

won't keep the majority after two years.
I am pushing for Murtha also. At least if he is elected, we have the appearance and hope for change.

[beachmom]

6. "Be not afraid" is what I want to scream to these people.

What do Democrats stand for? Open government and accountability. And that starts by properly vetting new appointments for crying out loud.

I heard on NPR that Hoyer is going to win, but that he is already weakened because Pelosi didn't support him, and he'll have to spend his time sucking up to her. I hope that's true. Better yet, I hope Murtha wins.

[TayTay]

7. Why did the Democrats lose in 1994?

Corruption. Corruption. Corruption.

We shold not go there. It's a very bad move. And Rep Murtha is not being 'swift-boated' on his ethics. It is wrong and disgusting of him to say this. His record is being examined. He should be honorable and not compare honest reporting with the reprehensible effort by Rethugs and their friends in the media to defame war veterans and lie about their records.

I am deeply disppointed in Rep Murtha. His arguments could hurt the Democrats in the future very badly.

[beachmom]

8. Oh, I didn't hear that. What happened?

I thought that Murtha was vowing to do something about earmarks, although his past record is not a good indication.

So you think the corruption trumps Iraq? Well then, Pelosi should have kept quiet. If the Democrats don't clean up Congress, then they'll get what they deserve in '08. Plain and simple.

[sandnsea]

9. I completely disagree Tay

The corruption then wasn't anywhere near what it is now. There wasn't a crook under every rock, it was mostly Rostenkowski with some really ridiculous scams and he suffered for it. The House Bank 'scandal' was just silly.

This is a classic Clinton swiftboat that started when they went after JK and "Hey John". That was about the same time Carville said the DNC should take a loan and I said they were setting Dean up to be swiftboated after the election. And they have. Now they want Murtha out, to be replaced with the equally ethically challenged, Hoyer. The DLC endorsed Hoyer as well. It's got nothing to do with corruption, it's got to do with Hillary putting people in place who will support whatever agenda she decides to run on, and that's not getting out of Iraq.

I know there needs to be a change in the way Congress divies up money. But that's no worse than Hoyer and his lobbyists, something he has indicated he doesn't think needs change.

It seems to me the choice is between DLC corporatists who are all about the status quo, and people who have been somewhat responsive to us. I really think Murtha is the right choice here and I think it will be a significant setback for responsive government if Hoyer wins.

[TayTay]

10. Murtha has the votes and will win

However, he is a pork king and we should know who we are climbing into bed with and make sure that this sort of thing stops. We have no mandate to go into Congress and just switch the bad ethics and stuff to our side. That is not reform, that is just squeezing power in order to extract money.

Swiftboating is the questioning of someone's war record in order to defame their patriotism and service record. Murtha was not swiftboated on this. John Kerry was not swiftboated on the HeyJohn thing. He was politically blindsided, I agree. But this is not swiftboating, it is very rough politics. Swiftboating exists in it's own special Rovian hell and has nothing to do with applying the type of pressure that HeyJohn did. (It was rough, but it could also be fought on the merits, which it was.)

Patrick Murphy in PA 08 and Adm. Sestak in PA 06 were swiftboated. The Rethugs openly questioned their military service and sought to make them seem unpatriotic because they were questioning the military policy in Iraq and the Commander in Chief. That is disgusting behavior and has no place in modern politics. Questioning and investigating someone for ethical behavior in office is exactly what a free press is supposed to do. There is a huge difference.

Steny Hoyer is no better than Murtha on taking home the pork. He has hitched his wagon to the DLC in order to accomplish this. Murtha uses his perch on Appropriations to do so. I understand that Murtha is the better choice because he is for a withdrawal plan to get out of Iraq and that is a direct and powerful challenge to the Dems who don't particularly want to push this. I get that. I also understand Murtha for who and what he is. I will not whore my own values in order to get temporary political advantage. I want Murtha for House Majority Leader. And I want him watched ever so carefully.

Corruption is a bad thing. I will not tolerate it or 'understand' it merely because it benefits my side for a temporary period of time. Corruption will rot the Dems from the inside out if they let it. It is wrong. I do not support unethical people.

[beachmom]

11. Does the House leadership accept out of district calls?

Is it proper to call John Murtha's office if one isn't in his district since he will be in the leadership? Perhaps if he heard from the people heartened by his stance on Iraq, but with a warning that we have ZERO TOLERANCE for corruption or out of control spending, that this may have an effect on him.

One of the reasons I am a Democrat is that I am for fiscal responsibility. I actually like that Republican out in Arizona who was fighting against earmarks, and hope that he continues his work. And if Democrats in the House don't GET who their constituents are, then they only deserve our scorn and constant nagging.

[sandnsea]

14. Then we agree

"I want Murtha for House Majority Leader. And I want him watched ever so carefully."

I don't think anybody is suggesting that Murtha not be held to account and forced to change the earmarking and any other monetary chits he's hanging over people's heads. It absolutely has to be done. I never thought getting Democrats into office was going to be the end of the fight, rather it's just the beginning. The only difference is that there are Democrats, like you and me and the rest of us, who want clean government and are willing to fight our own to get it. I think Murtha will listen - I don't think Hoyer will. And I think it's instructive how this is playing out in the media, it's always been interesting to me that certain things manage to make it into the media (Murtha), while other stuff is barely touched at all (Hoyer). In other words, Democrats (DLC) can get what they want into the media, they just don't get the same things in there that you and I think they should.

[wisteria]

15. I fully understand and agree with you on corruption. It should not

be tolerated- period. I get discouraged when I see how our own party engages in corruption and some how thinks a little is ok. These things always come back to haunt us.
You are also right about Swift Boating. I though that was a poor choice of words in this instance. Using it as he is, actually demeans it's meaning.
And, as for Murtha, I am not thrilled with his ethics,but I do want him to win. We need to push back at the DLC and Clinton. There are lives at stake here. We can not continue this war just to benefit someones run for the presidency or for other political or money reasons. It is just immoral to do this.
Interesting to note that Repub radio is almost siding with Hoyer on this matter. Seems to me some in our own party might be accused of working with the enemy.

[rox63]

12. I'm of two minds about Murtha vs Hoyer

Yes, I think Murtha should be rewarded for his strong stance on ending the war. But he's rather conservative on some issues that I care deeply about. And he's got some ethics issues that worry me. Murtha supported Pelosi in her past leadership bids, and she's returning the favor. Plus, apparently there is some bad blood of long-standing between Pelosi and Hoyer.

But Hoyer is pure DLC, the same folks who got the Dems into trouble as being supposedly weak & wishy-washy. Plus, we all know how the DLC-types are Clinton-worshippers, and are trying to undermine a certain tall, distinguished Senator.

I wish there was a 3rd choice. :(

[Mass]

13. I agree - I really wished there was a third choice.

[SouthernBelle82]

17. I wish it was

Dennis Kucinich or Tim Ryan. I like both of them but especially Kucinich. What I find funny is all these republicans are saying Murtha is this big bad leftist and Pelosi found the most far left person she could. If that was true she would have gotten Kucinich.

[ProSense]

18. Agree to a point!

There is no excuse for corruption, but I find it strange that in a campaign year focused on corruption, with Murtha being swift boated, he wins reelection anyway. Crew had him on their list prior to the election, but they seem to be going after him with more fervor than ever. I can't figure out why they're turning up the heat post election, and only to say he's wrong for the job of speaker!

Also, there is Harry Reid:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2616216&mesg_id=2616216


It's all bizarre! The GOP/media is still in smear mode. The Democrats better take off the gloves and stop pretending it's time to play nice.

[ProSense]

19. More on Murtha

From Roll Call:

Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) told a group of Democratic moderates on Tuesday that an ethics and lobbying reform bill being pushed by party leaders was “total crap,” but said that he would work to enact the legislation because Speaker-to-be Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) supports it.

Update from DK:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/15/144727/67

[ProSense]

20. Did you see this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2725397&mesg_id=2725397