Bill Clinton advised Kerry not to defend himself aggressively against SBVT!!!

[beachmom]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5401200&mesg_id=5401200

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/04/kerry_obama_won.html

Kerry: Obama Won't Be Swift Boated

LANSDOWNE, Pa. - Sen. John Kerry reached out to veterans here on Barack Obama's behalf Saturday, saying he believes Obama is more prepared to be commander in chief than Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton were when they took office.

Kerry told the crowd he did not think Obama would be victimized by GOP attacks the way he was in 2004 by the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth." Kerry took responsibility for not fighting the Swift Boat assaults more effectively, but he said advisors, including Bill Clinton, suggested he not defend himself aggressively.

"We didn't lose to them, I didn't lose to them, because we didn't answer it with the truth," Kerry said. "We did. We just didn't do it enough."

He said his campaign did not put enough money behind a campaign to counter the Swift Boat ads.

"We're not gonna get that close" to repeating the mistake, Kerry said. "We're just gonna come right back so hard and so fast."

Unless Kerry was misquoted, I find this explosive!! I mean, the Clinton people have been blaming him for "not fighting back" since 1 minute after Kerry conceded. And now we find out the Big Dog himself gave advice to Kerry during the attacks (when was Bill's heart surgery?), Kerry took it, and then he was thrown under the bus by Clinton afterwards?!?!? What the hell?

[JI7]

1. it makes sense, they never fought for him on this

and i do remember hearing at the time that Clinton people had told him to stop talking about Vietnam and focus on the economy.

that makes it all the more vile that they constantly attacked him for not fighting back.

but you know what, i'm not surprised by this at all. my opinion of the Clintons have gone way down. but looking back i'm not sure i ever liked them the way i do Kerry and Obama and many other Dems. it was more about defending them against the right. something they don't do for other Democrats.

[wisteria]

2. Clinton would be a hypocrite if this is true. However, Sen. Kerry still has to take responsibility

for making the final decisions in this matter. And besides, I always thought the money wasn't there at that time to fight and "others" in our party did not come out strong and loud in his defense. Finally thought, I would never credit these lousy swift boating partisan liars with being responsible for Kerry's loss (if he really did lose). The publics fear, manifested in the constant reminders of danger and color codes alerts, the Iraq War, the media and Osama Bin Laden's tape a couple of days before the election all played major roles. The swift liars did nothing more than add a dose of doubt and give people another reason to stick with the loser-Bush.

[beachmom]

3. I agree with everything you said. But in the context of '08, this is something else.

I mean, I honestly didn't think Bill was advising him on the Swifts. I did not know that he was involved during that time, and I am really flummoxed that he would advise Kerry in this way, given how he and Hillary have talked since the election. I guess I always thought they just stayed away and didn't really talk to him until the fall.

The way I look at it, Kerry has paid, and paid dearly, for what happened in '04. But what about the others who abandoned him and blamed him for everything? That is why I find this tiny piece of info (nothing like when Kerry slips the truth out, just like he did about the McCain people approaching him first about the VP slot) explosive.

[wisteria]

5. You are correct, Kerry has paid dearly for 2004 and so has the public who were left with four more

years of Bush.
And, to your point of this being explosive, someone else mentioned the very same thing in the comments.

[JI7]

4. i agree, the fear card was what hurt the most

too bad Clinton never fought back against right wing accusations that he did nothing about terrorism.

and yes, it is Kerry's responsibility and he has taken it. it shows what type of person he is compared to whiny asses like Bill Clinton and others who blame others and never take own up to what they did. in Clinton's case it includes the Lewinsky thing and the impact it had on Gore's 2000 election.

you are right about the money. the problem was that after you accept the nomination you are limited in spending. the Republicans purposely delayed their convention much longer than usual after the Democratic convention. so they had a longer period of time when they were not limited in their spending while Kerry was. this is why Kerry was considering officially accepting the nomination at a later date after the convention. looking back, this would have been the right thing to do.

[wisteria]

6. Yes, imagine if he had been able to take advantage of the money he had to fight the liars. n/t

[Inuca]

8. I agree that the fear card

is probably what hurt the most. ANd it still is the main card McCain has and intends to use. But hopefully the times they are achanging, and that card of evil magic has lost most of its power.

[ladym55]

15. And we can't forget anti-gay legislation

like in Ohio. The constitutional amendment on marriage was on the ballot here on purpose to bring all the homophobic rightwing Christians to the polls. Kenneth Blackwell bragged about it at the Republican National Convention.

[Inuca]

7. Clinton IS a hypocrite n/t

[beachmom]

9. Amidst the nasty fight, there was a little catnip, in case you missed it:

polichick Sat Apr-05-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message

54. It was my great pleasure to meet Senator Kerry today at a veterans event...

I thanked him for asking Barack to make the 2004 speech, and for campaigning on his behalf. I almost added that I consider him one of the yummiest Senators. lol

JI7 Sat Apr-05-08 11:40 PM
Original message

how luck(y) you are

i do consider him one of the yummiest senators and do plan on letting him know whenever i meet him.

polichick Sat Apr-05-08 11:48 PM
Response to Original message

71. I hope you get the chance to do that soon :)

He was very nice and approachable. In his talk he likened this grassroots movement to the one that led up to the first Earth Day and all the environmental legislation that followed ~ saying that when millions of people demand accountability and are willing to fire Congresspeople who don't comply, change happens fast.

beachmom Sat Apr-05-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #54

76. Ha, ha, ha!! Glad you got to see him today. Did he look good? nt

polichick Sat Apr-05-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #76

82. He looked great - fit, healthy and upbeat...

Even more handsome than on TV, and very friendly. He's one of my political favs, so it was really nice to be there!

Nice. :) That was the best part of the entire thread, and assured me that the "old DU" is still with us!

[ProSense]

10. Nice!

As for Bill, his comment about defending Bush against the left on Iraq destroys his credibility.

[karynnj]

11. That is nice

I suspect that as the Clintons lose favor, Kerry will gain it. What is very clear is that most people have a far better opinion of him after they see him - especially in person.

The Clintons have been destroying their likability at a fast pace. What is amazing is that with Bill you are seeing people who really did defend him strongly now speaking very harshly of him. These are people he will likely never win back - it hurts to accept that someone you admired as much as they did Clinton really was not good.

I think that among Democrats, it was the Clontons and their allies that actually initiated a second swiftboating - that was in some ways more effective than the first - that Kerry ineptly didn't respond. Everyone of their God awful books cited that as a truism as they literally tried to dance on the grave of the election loss in 2008. (McAulife was the worst)

Hearing Kerry say that Bill advised him not to fight it, doesn't surprise me. There was a comment in I think the New Yorker of Bill Clinton being said to have complained to someone in late summer 2004 that if Kerry spoke of Vietnam one more time, he would vote for Bush. As Kerry only had one line that referenced it in his stump speech - that he defended his country as a young man in Vietnam, then came home to protest the war, this seems to reflect Clinton's own envy of Kerry's record. That commentt is 1) is a modest statement for someone with Kerry medals and 2) a credential that made him look better than Clinton. The only longer comment that I remember was the Firegighter's convention anti-SBVT comments.

The fact is that - even without putting more money on fighting it - Kerry fought it BETTER than Clinton did any of his charges. (Clintons method was to try a series of lies, then bite his lip and admit to the truth. That and scapegoat all who disagree with him. - This is neither Kerry's style, nor would it have worked in 2004 - Instead Kerry conclusively proved the stories were lies. The problem was not seeing how little the print media controlled opinion.

It was neceassry for the Clinton people to paint Kerry as ineffective as it was the basis for why we needed HRC - only Clintons could fight back. There reason was obvious.

- Remember the Clinton library openning, Kerry got huge applause when he appeared.
- the polls showed him as the second strongest to HRC
- There were many things that the Clintons had to know were going to come in teh "Kerry was right" vein. (This is also why they hit him on the Kerry was weak on national defense)
- They pushed EVERY right wing smear of him - elitist windsurfer (imagine BC windsurfing), to allof and not a good speaker (when he was far more eloquent than either Clinton.)
- then the HRC backstabbing

I don't know if BC sandbagged Kerry intentionally in 2004 - with the book release and not trying to get his media allies to support Kerry, but he certainly did in terms of 2008 - even though it meant giving the SBVT a victory by helping them say that their actions won the race for Bush.

[Inuca]

12. "iimagine BC windsurfing"

:rofl: Great post, by the way.

[MBS]

13. very insightful post, karynnj

Thanks. Thanks also to Inuca for pointing out the windsurfing line. I'm still laughing!!!

[karynnj]

14. Thanks to both of you

though I'm amazed how many typos there were. I typed it on an old computer where there is no highlighting of misspelled words and a monitor that is barely readable - why - i was copying tax backup and was hiding that I was answering Beachmom's post that I read when we started working on the taxes. So, I apologize for it being barely literate.

But, even doing taxes leads to past Clinton tawdriness -if true. Looking for what to claim for clothes and books donated, I searched for a chart I had a long time ago - yet here is the number one thing google brought up along with the link to the Salvation army.

"In 1986 Arkansas governor Bill Clinton deducted $2 for a pair of used underwear he gave to Goodwill."

http://www.mymoneyblog.com/archives/2007/06/new-rules-on-tax-deductible-donations-of-clothing-and-household-items.html

(PS We didn't donate underwear!)

[Inuca]

16. Don't underestimate the value of used underwear!

One small step at a time and you get to be a hundred-millionaire.

Seriously, if it's true, it's.... ridiculous bordering on demented?