So .... what does everyone think of the near end of the presidential primary?

[beachmom]

Of course, Sen. Kerry went on a total limb for Barack Obama, and if things hadn't gone Obama's way, it would have been pretty bad for Kerry. So my first reaction to Tuesday's results was "PHEW". Honestly, I could have gotten over Obama losing, but what I couldn't have standed was the blowback the good senator from Mass. would have received had Clinton prevailed. So, #1, it was good for Kerry that Obama did so well on Tuesday.

I also want to give a shout out to BLM for pegging the Clintons correctly long before most of us saw what she saw. Many of us couldn't believe they were capable of the things BLM spoke of. Only now, when we see what the Clintons have descended into in full daylight against Obama are the shadowy things believable. Yesterday, was the lowest of low, when Hillary blatantly said Obama could not get the votes of "hard working Americans. White Americans". I just read on a thread that somebody watched The Daily Show last night (I haven't checked it out yet), and when Jon Stewart played her saying that, there was stunned deafening silence in the room. I am not sure she will be able to recover from this. I suppose in politics, anyone can forge a comeback, but this remark was really up there, like Conason said, George Wallace territory.

Ted Kennedy said no to Hillary being VP. God I hope that is the thinking going on among Democrats and the Obama campaign.

Obama is now organizing a 50 State registration and organizing drive. This is always what Kerry dreamed of, and really, the work for this started in 2004. Obama will now continue and exponentially expand that work, for which the benefits will outlive 2008, that's for sure.

Overall, I am very happy. The Clintons will continue to do evil things. I am not sure what they will do next, when/if she'll have the graciousness to concede. But I am sure they will continue to "entertain" us with more outrageous remarks and behavior.

Everyone else's thoughts?

[politicasista]

1. I am hopeful that the end is near also

When news broke about Kerry endorsing Obama, I remember the non-stop vitriolic and bitter threads from others saying how it was some kind of kiss of death for Obama. Still kind of sad that people lost respect for the good senator, but he is getting respected back from other places, and you can't and won't please everyone. However, I am glad that it is turning out well for Kerry and Obama. He has been a nice, if not a really cool surrogate for Obama.

I don't know if I can say this, but I was one that thought about leaving this forum because I didn't think I had anything meaningful to contribute to the discussions here because I may have felt to some that I was attacking/dissing Kerry while defending the Clintons.

After time away from DU, I had a change of heart and decided to come back and post here. I can say that their behavior since South Carolina has really opened lots of eyes to who and what they are about. I can say that based on daily conversations with the DP (Dear Parents). BC/HRC have alienated the people that have defended them in the past. The dislike for them is real. It was chilling to watch her top surrogate (the black OH congresswoman who worked with Kerry in 04) defend her actions over and over again.

To make the long story short, I too want to give a shout out to blm for exposing the Clintons for who and what they are, even when there were people that didn't want to hear the truth. Lots of loyalties are being tested i.e. Tavis Smiley leaving Tom Joyner for his criticism of Obama. Lots of talk that he is a closet HRC supporter because he likes the Clintons.

The downside of this emotional primary is that a blogger friend (a Clinton supporter) was lost because she had said she wouldn't vote for Obama and called anyone supporting Obama a "cultist" or on the Anti-Clinton brigade. I don't care anymore, and I don't even bring up politics there and I am on the winning side anyway. :)

I am glad that Obama is picking up where Kerry left off. The 50 state strategy and grassroots organizations are proof positive that is where it all begins. I too agree that the outrageous tactics will continue, but I hope she will just exit gracefully and support the nominee without destroying the Democratic Party, but won't put anything past them. I am just glad that it's almost over.


This has been a nasty, ugly primary. I hope we can come back together after all this. :grouphug:

[beachmom]

2. The problem, politicasista, is sometimes, you bring the negative stuff in here.

Like saying "people have lost respect for Kerry". You know, all I have to do is turn on cable tv to hear that crap (just heard it again on KO last night), and frankly, I don't want to hear it in here. When I heard Jonathon Alter disrespect Kerry last night (he said the Clinton's power is ebbing, like air coming out of a ballon ... much like Kerry after he lost), well, it makes my heart sink. Even if it were true for a time, it is not true now. But Alter did not mention increased power post-2006. So, why don't you keep things positive here? Because that is what this space was created for: we can talk about how much we respect Senator Kerry, to hell with the rest of the world. And, really, if Obama becomes president, you can bet your life more respect WILL be accorded Sen. Kerry in the Senate and the media. And, if Obama fails .... Kerry will still be in a Democratic majority in the Senate with quite a lot of seniority and respect. He has EARNED that respect by working hard on the issues he cares about.

I know you are only repeating what other people say, but I really think you should edit that stuff from your posts here. They're kind of a downer. You know I love ya, politicasista, so I hope you don't mind my mild chastisement here.

[politicasista]

4. I don't intentionally bring it here

Just pointing it out. It's too late to edit (sorry).

I haven't posted anything negative in a while. I was typing this because I thought it was answering the question. It wasn't intended to be negative about Kerry. I guess I was just expressing how I really feel about all this. :shrug: I was sort of relating it to people that used to post here. Some were not happy that Kerry endorsed Obama and still hold that against him and hate Obama. Like I said, you won't please everyone and I appreciate Kerry going out on a limb and doing that. It's wasn't the easy thing to do, but in his heart it was the right thing to do.

I didn't hear Alter's comments because I haven't watched much media, but I am sorry you had to listen to that. I really am. That really sucks. I have been posting positive things in defense of Kerry and Obama outside of DU. I understand that some of my sentiments are no longer welecomed here, but I will just post positive things from now on and keep other comments to myself.

It's ok beachmom, mild chastisement is good sometimes. :)











edit for word.

[beachmom]

6. Look, if Kerry did something NOW that you didn't agree with, then by all means

it is important to say so. But it's what other people think which I think we should leave OUT THERE. Other then to slap them down, or to organize to refute it. I really don't care about what other people think. I care what YOU think and what others think in here. As far as Kerry supporters who supported Hillary, and now have permanently turned on Kerry, well that is bizarro weird. Maybe they just liked his foreign policy experience, and were less interested in his anti-corruption record (which really flies in the face of the Clinton record). I think most long time Kerry supporters will STAY Kerry supporters, even if they disagreed with his endorsement of Obama.

[politicasista]

7. I agree with you

It should be smacked down and left out there.

And I haven't posted anything negative on Kerry in a while. I don't understand what the deal is. The last post in the last few days have been nothing but positive things about the good senator here and outside of DU (i.e. Kos). :shrug:

[beachmom]

8. Oh, I was just talking about your post today where you said

people didn't respect Kerry. Anyway, I don't want you to feel picked on. I apologize if you feel that way.

[politicasista]

10. I re-editied the post

I don't feel picked on you don't need to apologize. :) Everything is fine. I guess I am just thinking back to when the endorsement broke and the petty reactions after that. People do respect the senator (more will in due time), but you will always have haters and complainers.


Again, no apology needed. I didn't type the first post out right anyway. :hi:

[ginnyinWI]

24. I agree, Obama is picking up where JK left off

And that makes me feel happy for JK. Many of Obama's policy statements are exactly Kerry's. And that's a good thing, because they are the right policies. I'm sure JK feels the same way: if not himself, at least there can be another competent Dem who will carry out the same ideas he has. And I really hope that there's a spot somewhere for him in the Obama administration, because he still needs that promotion!

As for the primary, it's been too long for me to sustain a lot of interest. Yes, I enjoy Obama giving a great interview or speech. But I'm more than ready for a change in direction. I'll keep watching politics, of course. I do think Obama's got it pretty much in the bag though. The Democratic Party is so much stronger this election thanks to Howard Dean, and thanks to the efforts of top Dems like Kerry. Hats off to all of them! Our time has come. :) I can't bear to listen to our lame duck president any more and always switch him off immediately. And likewise for the female contender for the presidency. No. More. Patience.

On a personal note: Sorry I'm not posting much in this forum lately. I read stuff but don't have a lot of new thoughts to add. Family events have been keeping me busy--daughter's upcoming August wedding, and a visit to Portland to see our son and his new baby, etc. Just found out that he's been hired by a new studio in Sydney, Australia to work on a movie for ten months--yikes! (They'll be taking said grandson with them-- :( --but they are flying here in a few weeks to visit us all before they leave. :) )

[blm]

3. I'll tell you EXACTLY what I think their next major move will be....

I posted this yesterday.

Thu May-08-08 01:10 PM
Original message
What's the chance? Bush starts war with Iran and Bill Clinton supports/defends that decision


publicly throughout the summer and fall before the general election, even as our Dem nominee and his surrogates are criticizing the decision?

I think the chances are unfortunately high, because this is exactly what Bill did for Bush on his terrorism and Iraq war decisions throughout 2003 and throughout his high profile book tour in the summer of 2004, where he supported and defended Bush repeatedly from the very criticisms being aimed at him by the Dem nominee.

This time - I don't think WE, as a PARTY, will let him get away with it. At least, I hope not.

Reminder of Bill's role in defending the Bushboy PUBLICLY in high profile interviews throughout his summer2004 book tour:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq /



BTW, beachmom, since you are kind enough to direct those comments to me, I want folks to know that I have had a number of quiet apologies from some of the fiercer past critics and even some who sought fit to silence me at times. They have accepted my conclusions as not just being possible, but increasingly probable. Now we need to move to protect Obama, and do so knowing that we are not as alone as we were defending the truth about Kerry.

[Inuca]

5. How I feel

1. a state of almost disbelief. I keep remembering how unlikely what has actually happened was a few short months ago, and how I kept hoping against hope that she will not be the nominee. Well... she WILL NOT be the nominee!!!
2. apprehensive of what may still be in store. I have no way of getting a good feel about how many of her supporters are truly and profoundly disliking/distrusting Obama and/or have an irrational reaction of the "if not her, then the deluge" type and are therefore going to actually vote for McCain or (more likely, I hope) just not vote. Full disclosure: as probably already said in the past, I don't think I would have voted for her had she become the nominee unless the unthinkable happened and IL was at risk, but I would have voted for her (with immense displeasure) if I lived in non-solid blue state. Also, and this is barely relevant given how statistically insignificant it is, quite a few (possibly a majority) of the Clinton supporters I came across when canvassing in IN for the last 2 week-ends volunteered to say (we never asked) that they would vote for Obama if he ends up being the nominee.
3. pray that no hanky-panky will occur to force BO into a loveless and potentially very dangerous marriage of convenience. Very glad to see what Teddy K said today. Coordinated or not, who knows, but it's good it's out in the open and said by somebody of his stature, and in spite of the "retraction" the arguments he gave are the right ones.
4. very happy to see Kerry indirectly "triumph". As others have said, I see him as BO's precursor, somebody who has opened the way in more ways than one, not only by what he has said and done in 04, but maybe even more important through the whole approach to politics not as dirty all rules bared wrestling but as a principled, respectful and intelligent opposition and enmeshing of ideas.

[TayTay]

9. Now it's the in between time

It's the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interregnum">interregnum when the winner takes a breather and the Democratic Party begins to reformulate around that winner. People will be jockeying for position and for power and influence in this new configuration of the Democratic Party.

This is going to be, in a way, as difficult as any other period we have been through. There will be a lot of people claiming their share of the credit for Sen. Obama's victory. One tried and true and ugly way to do this is to give out interviews that demean the work of others. It happens. It is an ugly side of politics and it is inevitable.

In the case of Sen. Kerry, it also won't work. The Obama campaign stone-cold knows what a great supporter John Kerry has been. He has done what the Obama folks asked him to do, period. He did so without making himself the star attraction. Every Obama appearance Sen. Kerry made was just that, an appearance to promote Barack Obama, not John Kerry. There are people who will try to demean and insult Sen. Kerry in the weeks to come and downplay his role in the Obama campaign. It won't work. Period. The Obama people know who their die-hard friends were, who supported them through thick and thin and who showed up when asked, no matter what the task was.

I know we all needed thick skin to get through some of the tirades of the past few years. We need it again for a little while yet. This period of reforming the Democratic Party structure is going to be messy. But I assure you, the Obama people are well aware of what Sen. Kerry has done for them. Nothing, no leaks to friendly reporters by those just jumping on the bandwagon or jealous people or those with scores to settle, will change this. Take that to the bank and be happy.

[beachmom]

11. Hey, Tay, you taught me a new word! I like it. Interrugum.

Hmmm ... what you suggest may happen I never even thought of. To a certain extent, it has already happened, but just by bloggers. Bob Johnson from Kos said McCaskill was a great surrogate and we should have more of her and less of Kerry. I rebutted. He still got 21 recs to my 5.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/5/6/201058/4450/64#c64

Maybe that is the old time primary biases of the past talking. But, that will be indeed interesting if what you predict happens. The media is kind of clueless as to Kerry's powers. That or they know but aren't saying. Once in a while it'll slip out, but normally they either ignore him or knock him. I think that speaks of the Clintons' power. Their narrative was to blame Kerry for everything that went wrong in '04, and you just can't fight all that power coupled with the GOP propaganda about him. But the power of the voters will always prevail over any other power, which is why the media has finally, finally woken up to the fact that Hillary has lost.

It is nice to know the Obama people know what Kerry did for them. But then again, I wouldn't expect anything less from them. Half the team was Team Kerry '04, wasn't it?

[TayTay]

13. There were a lot of Kerry folks with Obama

from the start. The good Senator was actively courted for his support in this cycle.

People are going to talk trash in this in-between period. Brace yourself for it. But I want everyone to *KNOW* that the Obama camp understands just how good a surrogate Sen. Kerry was for them. That is indisputable, no matter what kind of jockeying for position takes place.

[beachmom]

14. As I referenced to Politicasista, what can be done about this sort of CW in DC?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24540540/

Keith and Jonathon Alter are talking about Hillary's future:

OLBERMANN: What about the Senate, would that actually be a better option than the vice presidency for her? And what was this talk about the Senate majority leadership possibly being dangled?

ALTER: Well, you know, that could be a possibility. Harry Reid is not tremendously popular with the Democratic senators and that‘s something that she would have to consider whether it might be better for her to have an independent power base in the Senate. But the vice presidency has become so powerful nowadays, she would be president of the Senate as vice president, if you remember your civics, and she might actually figure that other time she would have more power in the vice presidency.

OLBERMANN: You broke the story in March that there was a conversation, the possible dangling of the governorship of New York, is that still a possibility?

ALTER: I don‘t think so. I mean, I don‘t think she was ever interested in it. What interested me about it was that it was floated by a very senior Democrat and at that time they were looking for any desperate exit strategy to get her out of it. It‘s also depended on Governor Paterson, the flubbing which he wasn‘t quite (INAUDIBLE).

OBLERMANN: That was the nice, last nice idea. But is there a tipping point? And have we reached it yet of which there is—the answer to the question: What does she do next—is nothing, they don‘t let her do anything; maybe she gets to write a book about the campaign like Howard Wolfson?

ALTER: Well, as they kind of move off stage a little bit and you could feel the power seeping out of the Clinton balloon over the last couple of days, it may (be) that her options start to dwindle the way John Kerry‘s have for instance. Democrats are not usually very nice to losers, Republicans treat them much better.

OLBERMANN: Jonathan Alter of “Newsweek” and MSNBC. Thank you, Jon.

ALTER: Thanks, Keith.

This really, really irked me because he uses the present tense. I think that is an accurate statement for 2005, but I think post the 2006 election (especially since his ideas on Iraq were adopted by the entire party and both major presidential candidates), Kerry has increased his power in the U.S. Senate, albeit quietly behind the scenes. So guys like Alter don't know this? Or do they not care?

[TayTay]

16. they don't care, mostly

And won't until they are shown differently and in an obvious way. The CW stays until it is changed by force.

This will happen slowly. Again. But the foundation is all there. Some just don't see it yet.

[Inuca]

25. I heard that, did not like it, but

interpreted slightly differently. In the context of the sentence, I did not necessarily read it as a reference to the present, but rather to the past with a possible and kind of implicit continuation into the present. But I am splitting verb tenses here, and your English is better than mine, so you are probably right...

[ladym55]

12. Oh, heck, I wanted this over after Ohio

I've been ALL DONE for some time. I'm the kid in the back seat going, "ARE WE THERE YET???"

The toughest thing about this campaign is how I've gone from liking the Clintons to wanting them to go far, far away as soon as possible. I keep hoping if the media stops covering her campaign she'll take the hint and go home.

I have heard the all the media hoo-ha about Hillary as VP. All I can say, NO! NO! NO! Say it ain't so! I'm hoping that's just so much hot air to fill the airways.

I'm grateful for the work JK has done for Obama. He's been a class spokesman throughout. And he convinced one of my friends in PA to switch to Obama (and he gave her a hug, too!!!) :)

[beachmom]

15. Speaking of which, did you hear that Hillary only won Ohio by 8.8%?

I read that on Kos. She didn't win either Ohio or Pennsylvania by double digits. But Obama won NC by 14 points. Big difference, IMO.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/9/19758/84424/696/512899

[ladym55]

17. No, I didn't know that!!

Given that Hillary had a 20-point lead in the polls coming into the primary and had the support of almost ALL the biggies in the Ohio Democratic Party, maybe she shouldn't have been quite so excited about her "big" win.

[TayTay]

18. And she tied, essentially, in Texas

Not a big win. And, as we now know, not nearly enough.

I think I need a vacation. It feels like this race has been going on for years and years. lol

[ladym55]

19. Maybe you feel this way because the media started talking

about the 2008 election ON ELECTION NIGHT 2006.

It has been years.

[beachmom]

20. 2006? I remember when John Edwards was picked as VP, hearing

how this could possibly ruin Hillary's chances of being president, because it could mean JK served '04 & '08, and JRE served '12 and '16, and then Hillary would be too old. That was summer of 2004!!! Really, her presidential bid began in 1998, when she decided to run for Senate as a stepping stone to the presidency. Obama was the late one, only deciding to run in 2006.

[ladym55]

21. Wow. I missed that

I was so busy being excited about JK, Hillary wasn't even on my radar.

Truthfully, when Hillary went into the Senate, I viewed any presidential aspirations on her part as delusional. With several very conservative family members, I knew just how high the Clinton family negatives were. And still are. It's a little creepy to watch Fox News and O'Reilly and Hannity acting like they like Hillary.

And if she thinks that she can trash this election and come back in 2012, she is REALLY delusional.

[Inuca]

27. I do not remember when I started hearing

about it in the media. But I perfectly remember talking to a colleague the MORNING AFTER the 04 election and him mentioning that he had just seen a Hillary08 sign!

[wisteria]

23. Actually, the media was talking about Hillary running in 2004 when

JK was our nominee. I remember the chatter about how the Clinton's weren't trying to hard to help Kerry get elected.

[Inuca]

26. As I read or heard somewhere

her campaign (and the media coverage of it) since OH/TX has been like some cartoon character running at full speed and continuing to run on thin air over a precipice before suddenly plummeting to the ground.

Your last sentence: the hug must have done the trick :-).

[ladym55]

28. I'm sure it had an impact!

I did tell her that as much as she would never want to again ... she would need to shower. :)

[wisteria]

22. I agree with everything you said. I will just add that I think in a lot of ways

Senator Obama is like Senator Kerry- at least in his idea and how he carries himself. I am pleased with the way things have turned out. I wanted the Clinton's weakened so our party could progress and if we couldn't have Kerry in 2004, at least we have a close second in Obama. I am also happy for what this will mean to Senator Kerry.

[MH1]

29. Ecstatic ... relieved ... overjoyed!

I really wish the Clintons would acknowledge that it's over, but maybe they don't have to. It seems pretty much everyone else is moving on, except some diehard Clinton supporters.

I am more and more thinking I see JK's influence in Obama's positions and statements. Whether that is because JK's influence is actually increasing, or just that I'm noticing it more, I don't know. But in any case it makes me feel increasingly more comfortable with Obama. In a way it is as if Barack is really a surrogate for JK.

Clearly, Obama is his own man, and will not agree with JK on everything. But I think there is a broad harmony in their approaches to policy, process, and public service, and I find it heartening to see the evidence that they are working well together. Obama seems to be a very good listener, someone who takes in information from all angles before making a decision. That John Kerry is one of the key people he is talking to, bodes very well for the country, I think. It makes me dare to hope. :)

[YvonneCa]

30. I could not agree more...

...especially with your last paragraph.