WooHoo!!!!!! Cloture on Bolton FAILED!!!!!!!!!

[whometense]

Did my ears deceive me, or did FRIST vote no on cloture???

I am so confused...

[ginnyinWI]

1. I doubt he voted no

He just got up and scolded the Dems for a partisan filibuster on Bolton. :grr:

But cloture failed! :woohoo:

[whometense]

2. Wow. I am so pleased.

I really thought we would lose that one.

I'll join you!! :woohoo: :woohoo:

[ginnyinWI]

3. In GD/P they are saying Frist did vote No

something about a tactical move...? :shrug:

[whometense]

4. I don't get it.

Steve Clemons was keeping track and he had Frist on his no list. I heard them say "Frist NO" right at the very end of the vote, so he must have changed it.

I can't imagine what he would gain by it. Though Biden and Reid were heaping praise on him for trying to pry the info out of the White House all day today.

Wouldn't you love to have been backstage for this one?? You just knew all the drama was happening off-camera.

On edit: Looks like you and are the only ones around. ;-) Town meeting tonight, so my husband flew in, grabbed some food, and ran out again.

[paulk]

11. Frist voted no to be on the winning side

that way he can bring a motion to reconsider (you have to be on the winning side to bring a motion to reconsider). That way he can start the debate up again. It's a common tactic - it's from Roberts Rules of Order.

[whometense]

13. The ironically titled

Roberts Rules of Order. They so often seem completely arbitrary.

[whometense]

5. They heard it on Kos too.

Evidently,

* Frist voted no (none / 1)

So he could move to reconsider after the holiday.

and

It's probably more of a parliamentary nicety, perhaps allowing him to reintroduce the motion to reconsider after recess?

Sounds more plausible to me than Frist suddenly getting serious about the White House actually delivering the information they've been asked for about Bolton.

He did move to reconsider immediately after the vote. I'm not well schooled in the parliamentary niceties.

[whometense]

6. Here's what Clemons says,

and I must say, though I'm not a drinking woman I could use one too.

I Am So Dizzy: We Won Another Battle

Defectors were Landrieu, Ben Nelson, and Mark Pryor.

More -- lots more -- on them later.

Senators Lieberman and Feinstein -- THANK YOU.

Senator Voinovich, you continue to be ferociously independent -- and though you voted for cloture, your leadership otherwise is appreciated.

Senator Reid -- STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR WHAT HAPPENED.

The "issue here" is the Constitutional responsibilities of the Senate to provided advise and consent on Executive branch nominations.

More later. . .I need a drink.

Thanks to all of you for supporting this blog, flooding TWN with information and your thoughts. And thank you for your financial support in the new "paypal button" on the front of my homepage.

This is a victory...another one.

The media has been CONSTANTLY WRONG.

Ok...I am going for a drink. There is still room for faith in American democracy, the rights of the minority, and standing by principle.

John Bolton is NOT someone America can be proud of at the U.N. He is not someone of the sort of impeccable credentials, standing, and vision that we should be making our Ambassador in the convocation of nations in Turtle Bay on Manhattan.

More later....much, much, much more.

Thanks to all of you who have been supporting and helping this process.

-- Steve Clemons

[CBHagman]

7. I was afraid to open "Breaking News"

That's how nervous I was about the cloture vote.

See how scary the political atmosphere is these days? I go screaming back to the Catholics or the Kerrycrats or, on occasion, the Catholic Kerrycrats. :-)

[whometense]

8. Well, it's always nice to be able to

deliver good news. :-)

I was very nervous about the vote, but steeling myself for the worst. I thought Kerry's speech was good conent-wise, but he seemed distracted or something, and I was trying to figure out if that was good news or bad. Sometimes I make myself crazy, you know??

[JohnKleeb]

9. hah theres a few of us Catholic Kerrycrats

aint you Eastern European and or Irish as well.

[TayTay]

10. It was Existentialist Day in the Senate. (Felt like it to me)

For Lamar:
Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Upshot: we live to fight another day.

Frist can't count. How come he keeps scheduling losing votes?

John Kerry was bored with the whole thing, gave it his best shot and then mailed the rest of the speech in. Can't blame him. He seemed very cheery in the well of the Senate waiting for the cloture vote to end. And he avoided John McCain again. Pointedly. I saw it. McCain was hainging around the Dems trying to pick up that winner vibe and Kerry avoided him. Kerry talked to Reid and Kennedy and Sen. Warner (I think) but not to McCain. He turned his back on him.

Anybody else glad that the Senate has a week off?

[whometense]

12. Wow, yeah.

I think I may listen to only classical music next week while at work. No c-span. No AAR.

You're probably right about him being bored - it's just so hard sometimes to figure out what's happening in front of you. Well, it is for me, anyhow. :dunce:

[sandnsea]

14. Ah, Wyden was absolutely inspiring

:eyes:

There you go again Tay. Your Senator "mailing it in" was still 10 times better than mine introducing legislation he was actually excited about.

:)

[TayTay]

16. Ahm, I saw that. It was on my Tivo when I got home

Well, Sen. Wyden's heart is in the right place. This is a good amendment. http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?Section=news&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=95085 His delivery is ahm, well, ardent. He doesn't seem too bad to me. (That was him excited? What's he like as a campaigner? How did he get elected? What was the primary like? The GE?)

I thought Sen. Kerry was okay (average) yesterday, but Uncle Ted was better. Uncle Ted all wound up and loaded for bear is a sight to behold. Stand back, he just might blow up one day when he gets to shouting and stuff. I really like that, partly because I like Uncle Ted, partly because his shouting speeches drive freepers crazy and I like that a lot.

Sen. Kerry did mail it in yesterday. Anytime you start a speech with, "Well, this has all been said before and I don't feel like going over it again, so bite me," it's mailing it in. But that's okay. He had to follow Allen and Lamar. (Kudos for just not being in a stupor after that less than dynamic duo.) And it was his 10th wedding anniversary and he's headed for Orlando to give a speech and he's got a week off and well, I understand. (Sometimes I mail it in as well.) He can do better, but was probably saving it for a day when it actually meant something.

Wyden votes lib most of the time, right? Is he popular in Oregon? (Who's more popular, Wyden or Smith?) You seem less than enchanted with him. BTW, are there any credible candidates from the Northwest who could run for Pres in '08. I am tired of the NEers and want some gossip about NWers or Midwest guys. (You know where I stand, I just want to gossip.)

[ginnyinWI]

17. But you see, your senators have spoiled it for us!

Ours may be good speakers, but yours are GREAT, so we can't help comparing. My Sen. Feingold is OK, but put him next to John Kerry or Teddy Kennedy, and he pales. Probably the same with Wyden--without comparing him to giants, he's probably pretty good as a speaker, too!

Oh well, they can't all be supermen I suppose. :)

[sandnsea]

19. Oh you just stop it too

Feingold? He's pretty great too, I could handle him as President.

Here's what Whome had to say about my Dem, although she didn't know it:

"Then all of a sudden all these second-tier dem senators are yakking about this 'n' that."

Yep, that was my Wyden! Wohoo!

I kid Senator Wyden...

[whometense]

21. oops

:blush: :blush:

Sorry - got me. I guess maybe I am a snotty NE elitist after all.

It was funny, though, because though what they were saying was really good, they were difficult to listen to. Wyden was one of them who was the other? Embarrassing - can't remember his name. I was thinking that I hadn't heard either of them speak before.

Anyway, I apologize. Nothing wrong with being earnest, and not everyone's a great speaker.

[sandnsea]

32. ha

I thought it was hysterical, no apology necessary. His heart is absolutely in the right place, and that's worth alot!

[ginnyinWI]

25. yeah--I'm not really bashing, you know

Just having a little fun. We need never and should never really bash our Dems when we have so many RW-ers we can take apart if we have a mind to. :)

[TayTay]

26. Ahm, I give up!

sandnsea, you do this just to see me squirm, I know it. I am quite fond of my Sens and I think they do a good job. That's why I vote for them. (It also give me blinders.) Geez, that's what Senators look and sound like, right? They have for most of my adult life. Uncle Ted has been my Sen since I was 4. Sen Kerry's service in the Senate started before the birth of my kids. So they seem the very model of a modern major Senator to me. But they have been there a long time and my perspective is, I'm sure, warped and biased. (As must be evident.) I do not wish to be unctious about it. If something is good, it simply shows, you don't need to cram it down someones's throat. Okay? (Whoops, my Puritanism is showing.)

I cannot, in good conscience, put anyone else's Senators down. (That would be awful.) I am not in their states. The Sens in question are surely the cream of the crop for Dems in those states and it would be undemocratic (and smarmy) for me to criticize the choice of voters in those states. Surely they think their Sens are great as well.

Sen. Feingold is a hottie! I think he's a fine speaker. (I was moved by his remarks and he was intelligent and forceful.) Sen. Wyden wes effective in creating a well-thought out argument. He looked like Cicero next to Allen and Lamar, okay? (And he was a snappy dresser? Ahm, he didn't wear plaid on the Senate floor, there is that.) And he is probably nice to widows, kids and stray animals. What else is there?

[sandnsea]

33. He's not Kevin Mannix

Or Al King. Believe me, we are all forever grateful for THAT!!

No, JK did not throw out quite the same amount of red meat that he did the other day. Still, he gave quite a rational speech about the need of the Senate to have information before voting, which I think was his intent.

[sandnsea]

20. Beavers & Ducks

Our college teams. We'll gnaw you to death or poop all over you, I guess. Oregon is just not all that spirited of a place, or we keep it all confined to Portland, I don't know. Wyden is very progressive though and a pretty good liberal voter. I don't dislike him, he's just not all that inspiring or even interesting. I moved back here right around the time he was elected, so I don't know much about why he was chosen. Of course, the biggest senate race of my life was in Montana when Conrad Burns defeated John Melcher and his talking cow commercials. I am not kidding.

[ginnyinWI]

27. cow commercials?

I would have thought someone from WI would have tried that.

In 2004 Russ Feingold won handily over Tim Michaels, a rich, white, repub (and clueless) land developer. His attack ad featured an actor portraying Feingold playing on schoolyard playground equipment and never coming in from recess, while all the "serious" students (politicians) were inside dealing with serious issues. The "teacher" is tapping on the window glass and telling Russ to come in.

Guess that one didn't work--Feingold got something like 70% of the vote!! The Feingold-Michaels debates were an absolute joke. Russ wiped up the floor with him.

[sandnsea]

34. Cows, my trusted political source

Think happy cows talking about their favorite politician, only on a ranch instead of in a green field. Which is kind of counter-intuitive, considering where a ranch cow is headed.

For Conrad Burns next year, I'd like to see them re-enact my son's senior class after Burns spoke to them. THAT is our senator???

[karynnj]

24. Maybe more resigned than bored

It really shouldn't work this way, for all the reasons he talked about in last week's speech. The Republican Senators, with a few notable exceptions are not fulfilling their constitutional role. The Democrats have shown many reasons why Bolton shouldn't be confirmed. In another time, committing perjury during your confirmation would be an obvious reason to withdraw (in embarrassment) the name.

The way he described it, there are so many reasons why Bolton is wrong. There were so many reasons, for the main ones he simply alluded to what the other Democrats said. He did use very strong words like "unconstitutional" and at times seemed to be simply talking to the others Senators on the purpose of committees and of the Senate itself.

Is it possible that he was intentionally low key, and spoke the way he did, while referencing issues from the filibuster speech on purpose. By speaking softly, but making very strong charges about the Bush administration not respecting the Senate as a co-equal branch of government, he might have been trying to reach the consciences of the Republicans to at least let them get the information. An emotional speech delivered with the intensity Kerry can easily have with these same facts might be rejected as grandstanding or just emotional rhetoric.

Alternatively, this must be so painful for Kerry - both the nomination of this creep and the damage to the Senate as a co-equal part of government - knowing that around half of this country chose this over him. He wouldn't be human if this didn't cause a combination of sadness and anger.

[ginnyinWI]

28. frustrated and just plain tired

That's what I saw. I'm glad the Senate will have a week off, after the grueling one they've all just gone through.

[TayTay]

29. I agree on that

His speech was average. Nothing great, but it was competent and the points were well-chosen and well-argued. Then he decided enough is enough and mailed the rest in. Which is fine by me. It was a long week. The points had all been made. It was 'Last Dance' and hell, what else was there to say.

You know, I think this is very painful for Kerry. (More so that for Kennedy, who tends to roll with the punches more.) Sometimes I wonder if he really wants to keep going back to the Senate where the atmosphere is so poisonous. It must be very taxing on the soul and a grind. He could retire and do so many other things besides banging his head against a wall. Sen. Nunn retired at 59. Couldn't take it anymore. I see why now.

[whometense]

30. Interesting you should mention that.

I've been wondering the same thing. I don't think going back per se after the election bothered him, but noting the poisonous atmosphere and whatever's going on between him and McCain, I wouldn't be surprised if the job's losing some of its charm.

Teddy's like an old prizefighter - he's full steam ahead all the time. Kerry's a more sensitive soul, more introspective, and not so much into politics-as-game - I think for him the politics are strictly a means to an end.

I don't see him retiring. But I could see him giving up his senate seat to run in 2008 without a ton of regret. I'd regret it, though.

[politicasista]

31. I hope he stays in public office though

I think he got a very raw deal from everyone from his own party to the media.

[TayTay]

37. So can I.

Aye, there's the rub. I could see it easily. HOWEVER, not without anohter big fight first. (Gawd, how many years of being belittled in the SFRC can one person take. I felt like slapping Allen and Coleman during that May 12th meeting when they were talking about how they practically had to be bribed to go on that low-rent committee. Bastards. I just wanted to slap them, hard. Good thing I'm sort of a pacifist and would never do such a thing.)

I'm leaving this particular thought alone. It's a bit too melancholy for me, especially on my B-Day.

[globalvillage]

38. IT'S YOUR BIRTHDAY???!!!

Happy Birthday, Tay Tay!!!

:party: :party: :party: :party: :toast: :toast: :bounce: :bounce: :yourock: :yourock: :woohoo: :woohoo: :applause: :applause: :party: :party: :party: :party:

[TayTay]

40. Whoa! Thanks!

I am getting to the age where you low-key these things. (The B-day is the 28th, but close enough.)

I just hope the Red Sox beat the Yanks tomorrow. That's what i want for my B-day. But right now is not a good time for ny beloved Sawx. Sigh!

[vinessa4freedom]

15. I was afraid to look

Thank you for the news. I'm still in shock though... Frist?

[whometense]

18. Turns out it was purely procedural.

He had to be on the winning side in order to ask to revisit the vote, so he changed his vote at the last second when he saw cloture was going to fail.

So, no credit to him.

[vinessa4freedom]

22. Too much to even hope for

should've know it was a self-service move. Can't really expect anything else from him. I haven't really figured out how those voting games work. Seems a damned confusing mess to me.

[whometense]

23. Totally confusing.

I watched every minute of the vote, and still had to go online to figure out what I'd seen!!!!

[vinessa4freedom]

35. I've gotten so involved so quickly

that I keep forgetting I'm pretty new at all of this. Until I'm taking 3 political science classes next semester--that should help. I'm glad I'm not the only one that's a little stymied by it all. :)

[whometense]

36. Not at all.

I keep running to TayTay for explanations. Arcane rules of order are not my strong suit, anyway - I'm more the intuitive type, which is nice in its own way but leaves me befuddled a lot. :-)

[beachmom]

39. Kerry and the Senate

A couple of things you have all touched on:

For the first time ever, I actually peered closely into my television screen to see how the senators interacted (tells you how you have all influenced me!), and I definitely saw a Kerry pirouette away from John McCain. I also noticed him spending most of his time speaking with Senator Kennedy and some with Harry Reid. If I can speculate a bit, what does this tell us? That the Senate is in many ways like any other workplace. You have your friends and your acquaintances which actually make going to work more enjoyable. Kerry is less of a schmoozer than some of the others (McCain was really working the room earlier with many Democrats, actually), and he talks more with people who he knows well and is more comfortable with, like Kennedy. And one of his good friends in the Senate, John McCain, is not only not a friend anymore but barely would qualify as an acquaintance. This makes the workplace a lot less fun to be in.

JK seems happy to use the Senate as a staging ground for issues he cares about and a possible second presidential run, but as a job unto itself? I am sensing by many of his speeches, both in text and in demeanor, that he is no longer terribly happy there. Maybe if it went back to Democratic control in '06, he might feel differently. I also think that after his loss in November, it was almost therapeutic to go back to the Senate and stay busy to alleviate some of the pain. But it is catching up to him as the daily grind of partisan bickering and radical right wing judicial nominees as well as the Bolton nominee dominate the business there. I think we all know the stages of grief, and I see JK, right before the C-SPAN cameras, toggle between anger and depression. This is a tough time for him, worse perhaps than even late last year.

If the Senate remains in Republicans' hands for years to come, I could definitely see JK retiring from the Senate, regardless of whether his presidential ambitions come to fruition.

A huge loss that would be for all of us.

(OR, I am dead wrong and have read into things that are not there!)

[TayTay]

41. I think you're dead-on

and very insightful. I see it too. (and I could well be dead wrong. Hey MASS, check-in here. You should have a great perspective on this as a fellow Masshole and Kerry-observer.) Based on the past 20 years of Kerry watching I see several scenarios ahead:

He will work harder to elect Democrats next year than almost anyone else. (It's his pattern. When in doubt, work harder.) This will have the added benefit of piling up 'chits' that he can cash in during the '08 run. (If he decides to run in '08.)

He will spend a lot of time on the road. I think forums like the one in Austin back in April are like an elixer to him. He seemed so happy at that event. (Did you see the pics beachmom? Big smiles and lots of energy. It was great!)

I also hope to see some serious downtime. He needs a real vacation. I hope he gets one. (People that are that driven and work that hard need to crash sometimes and do nothing or do fun stuff for awhile. Works wonders on a tired soul.) Seriously, I hope he takes August off and goes somewhere and does nothing. We will miss the daily stuff in here, but it would be the best thing to counteract the Colemans and Allens of the world.

I really don't think he is going to run concurrently for both his Senate seat and the Presidency in '08. It's too much. I think he will narrow it down to one or the other and then focus like hell on one race. And if it works out, great. If not, it will be a clean break and he can go on to other things. (There are other ways to affect change in the world that are worth doing, after all.)

I agree with you. It must be depressing as hell to have to be in defend mode all the time in the Senate. It must just grate like hell to have to get up and talk, again, about how the nation shouldn't be screwing over it's vets or that a particular program must be saved because it is vital in the lives of certain people. I think the general unpleasantness of it shows from time to time. (Though I also think this is one tough guy, and not a quitter at all. I guess I have mixed feelings.) The McCain breech must hurt too. It all adds up after awhile.

[beachmom]

42. Trips in the country help

I definitely agree that Kerry is a tough guy and can take whatever comes at him including some unpleasantness in the Senate. Everyone has their good days and bad days, but after a while, he will have to make a decision about his future, and the problems in the Senate will certainly be a factor.

Yes, I saw those Austin pictures -- they were great! He definitely gets a bounce out of seeing "us", as in the people. I think even a Republican constituent yelling at him would be refreshing compared to the back stabbing in Washington. He took the 2004 campaign to heart; I think it has changed him forever so that what's happening in the Senate seems even more ridiculous to him now than it would before. He's become more now than ever a man of the people, like FDR. I am convinced of this.

[TayTay]

43. I was so taken with the way all the Kerry folks spoke about this

The Senator and his family all spoke about the campaign as a great honor, and with that look of wonder in their eyes. I saw Vanessa and Alexandra Kerry speak on Larry King just weeks after the election and they were still just blown away by all the good people out there who had embraced them. I felt that as completely sincere (it showed in their eyes.)

It must hurt beyond the telling to know that all those folks and all their problems are still out there and the Colemans and Allens of the world don't care. If it was me, I would have curled up into a fetal position for a week or so and then slowly come out of it. Sen. Kerry seems to have taken the opposite tack of saying it wasn't about him, it was about the people. And he wishes to continue the fight. But it must still rankle, cuz all those good hurting people are still out there. Kudos to him, honestly, that is one tough guy! I couldn't do it.